Ad marks for leona?

59272998_DEL·Feb 20, 2015·2 votes·1,609 views

is that any good? what runes and mastery do you guys use? for support leona

12 Comments

TalamareFeb 20, 20152 votes

Only if AD stands for Armor Defense Reds

Standard for basically every support

EvilMerodachFeb 20, 20151 votes

For any support that autoattacks ever, armor pen or hybrid pen is generally the norm. I'd go ar.pen on Leona I think. Depends on how often you poke with W or E/Q combo. Mostly E/Q: armor pen. Mostly W: magic pen. 50/50: hybrid pen. Flat AD doesn't sound very useful on her. Generally flat ad is only good if you get some kind of AD scaling on a skill. Like Ezreal Q gets 110% AD scaling, meaning your 8.5 bonus ad from flat ad marks will make q's do something around 9 extra damage, plus extra on the autoattacks too. Might not sound like much but just having a -little bit- more than the other guy can sometimes mean the difference in snowballing them out of lane or them escaping with 10 hp. But with Leona she gets 0% ad scaling on anything, so you'll only do the extra damage on autoattacks, and armor/magic pen will usually win out in small trades or disable their armor seals/MR glyphs

Edit: Should add that if you go full armor pen marks you need to throw in a couple extra auto attacks in there for it to be as effective/better than magic pen. Can't just E/Q/auto with q charged and walk away. Something closer to E in, autoattack, Q to reset autoattack timer, auto again, then auto one more time while stunned. It gives their support/whoever you didn't stun with the q, time to hit you back...but...you are Leona..so, you can usually take a couple hits for the team. ;)

Ice Weasel XFeb 20, 20151 votes

I'll have to disagree on ArPen Marks for Leona. Most of her damage output is magic based. Unless you're specifically stacking AD or never using her abilities, you'll never do enough physical damage for ArPen Marks to be worthwhile. Armor, HPen, MPen, or AD Marks are the ones people use most on her.

Armor - Her Eclipse scales with resistances, and she's a CC tank
MPen - The majority of her damage is magical
HPen - Workable on pretty much any support that'll use AAs, the MPen is barely less than pure MPen Marks
AD - Early harass makes the damage on an AA+Q+AA combo HURT. Late game this is practically nothing, but most runes won't have a huge effect on late game anyway

EvilMerodachFeb 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ice Weasel X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=52qEYV8J,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-20T12:11:10.072+0000)

I'll have to disagree on ArPen Marks for Leona. Most of her damage output is magic based. Unless you're specifically stacking AD or never using her abilities, you'll never do enough physical damage for ArPen Marks to be worthwhile. Armor, HPen, MPen, or AD Marks are the ones people use most on her.

Armor - her Eclipse scales with resistances, and she's a CC tank

MPen - the majority of her damage is magical

HPen - workable on pretty much any support that'll use AAs, the MPen is barely less than pure MPen Marks

AD - Early harass makes the damage on an AA+Q+AA combo HURT. Late game this is practically nothing, but most runes won't have a huge effect on late game anyway

If flat AD vs Ar.Pen was 1 for 1, AD would win, but: AD marks = 8.5 ~~Ar.Pen marks = 19~~

~~Ar.Pen almost always wins out (cause it counts 1 for 1 for their armor, and nearly all champs have 21+ armor at level 1)~~ ~~The only time Ar.Pen doesn't win out is if you drop their armor to 0, or if a skill also scales with AD and you land the skill enough to outweigh the Ar.Pen.~~ (afik the only support that can lower armor other than runes/masteries is Taric)

AD or Ar.Pen both give you extra damage on your autoattacks, just you get more Ar.Pen.

~~Yeh, armor seals are good on her, but I was only talking about marks.~~ Seals/glyphs I think matter more who you are against, or just go armor seals/flat MR glyphs for a general catch-all page.

Edit: Unrelated note: Flat AD will also win out on most junglers, as most monsters have >19 armor. (Though attack speed usually beats flat AD for clear speed...)

Editedit: I forgot Armor reds existed. They aren't a horrible choice...for Leona, pretty bad for most other supports, as you get 0.9 for reds and 1.0 for yellow, so they're secondary. But hey, 20% bonus armor on your W, so it could pay off, if you're tanking more autos in laning phase than you're dishing out (which is fairly likely if they have a ranged support)

EditeditEdit? I'm dumb and should probably just not post stuffs this early in the morning. :p

Ice Weasel XFeb 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If flat AD vs Ar.Pen was 1 for 1, AD would win, but: AD marks = 8.5 Ar.Pen marks = 19

Ar.Pen almost always wins out (cause it counts 1 for 1 for their armor, and nearly all champs have 21+ armor at level 1) The only time Ar.Pen doesn't win out is if you drop their armor to 0, or if a skill also scales with AD and you land the skill enough to outweigh the .

Since we're talking early game, I'll show you that level 1 trades with AD Marks are stronger than ArPen Marks.

First off, ArPen Marks max out at 11.52, not 19. AD Marks max at 8.55.

To tilt things in your favor, we'll pick an ADC on the higher end of base Armor. Draven has a base of 25.544. We'll assume he's using 9 Armor Seals, placing him at 34.544 Armor at level 1. Leona's base AD is 60.04, which we will augment with either 9 AD Marks or 9 ArPen Marks. A positive Armor value uses a damage multiplier formula of [100 / (100 + Armor)]. Any calculations will be rounded off at 5 decimal places (arbitrary choice, just didn't want to cut things off at 2 decimal places).

AD Marks:

Leona's Level 1 AD: 68.59
Draven's Level 1 Armor: 34.544
Damage multiplier: 100 / (100 + 34.544) = 0.74325
Damage done to Draven by single Leona AA at Level 1: 68.59 * 0.74325 = 50.97952

ArPen Marks:

Leona's Level 1 AD: 60.04
Draven's effective Level 1 Armor: 23.024
Damage multiplier: 100 / (100 + 23.024) = 0.81285
Damage done to Draven by single Leona AA at Level 1: 60.04 * 0.81285 = 48.80351

Raw AD beats ArPen at early levels, which is when Leona's AAs are most potent if you aren't building AD items. Late game, it's all about her CC and damage mitigation.

AD or Ar.Pen both give you extra damage on your autoattacks, just you get more Ar.Pen.

The reason I would never use ArPen on Leona is that her physical/magical damage output are extremely unbalanced. When I play her, my magical damage is typically 3 times my physical damage. If you want to optimize for single penetration, MPen is the clear choice. If you want some ArPen, Hybrid Marks are still a better option since you'll still get the MPen boost at the same time.

Yeh, armor seals are good on her, but I was only talking about marks.

I wasn't talking about Armor Seals. People really do forego offensive Marks on Leona and use Armor Marks. 9 Armor Marks give 8.19 Armor, and an additional 1.638 when her Eclipse is active.

EvilMerodachFeb 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ice Weasel X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=52qEYV8J,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-20T13:37:17.748+0000)

First off, ArPen Marks max out at 11.52, not 19. AD Marks max at 8.55.

O snap, my bad, I was comparing a page with ar.pen quints/red vs a page with ad reds and movespeed quints. Forgot about the quints. 9am here and been awake something around 26 hours. Sorry about that.

Also, TIL! Thank you for the maths. I'm pretty sure the last time I did the low level calculations for ad vs ar.pen was before they nerfed armor seals and gave all champs a little extra armor to compensate. Somehow I just assumed it all worked out the same. I guess not. May need to bump around a couple of my rune pages because of this. Yay optimization. Thank you Mr. Weasel, have a poro! summoner 31

Ice Weasel XFeb 20, 20151 votes

To be fair, ArPen Marks do outscale AD Marks very quickly. Leona's just so heavily magic-based that HPen's the way to go if you want ArPen in your build.

ZadicFeb 20, 20151 votes

i love running flat ad on all my supports. the enemy adc usually dont expect the extra damage i have until i bash their face into the fountain with my shield

SukishooFeb 20, 20151 votes

For her and most tanks/tank supports I usually use

AD Marks Health Seals Scaling MR Glyphs Armor Quints

So yeah AD Marks work pretty well.

Fitz n The FoolFeb 20, 20151 votes

I run AD marks on ranged supports. leona/Taric I run armor marks, armor quints, and 4 armor seals + 5 scaling health seals. Idk. Works for me. Tanky as fuck. Helps tower dives early.

ProfDrDeathFeb 20, 20151 votes

Personally, I prefer the IDGAF route for melee tank supports like Leona Taric Braum or Alistar :

Armor Marks (because each gives 0.91 Armor, which is almost as good as Armor Seals) A mix of HP and HP/level Seals (Stronger than Armor if you have Armor Reds, imo) MR/lvl Glyphs Armor Quints (at 4.26 Armor a piece, those are worth 4.26 Armor Seals each. Most efficient source for Armor in runes).

21 Armor from runes.

Masteries, if I really want to go over the top with Leona, 0/21/9. 5 Armor + 8 in a duolane, +5% extra bonus Armor 21 + 8 + 5 = 34 * 1.05 = 36 bonus Armor on level 1.

63 Armor level 1? No problem. At that point, you can pretty much ignore the enemy's auto-attacks.

Fitz n The FoolFeb 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Personally, I prefer the IDGAF route for melee tank supports like or :

Armor Marks (because each gives 0.91 Armor, which is almost as good as Armor Seals) A mix of HP and HP/level Seals (Stronger than Armor if you have Armor Reds, imo) MR/lvl Glyphs Armor Quints (at 4.26 Armor a piece, those are worth 4.26 Armor Seals each. Most efficient source for Armor in runes).

21 Armor from runes.

Masteries, if I really want to go over the top with Leona, 0/21/9. 5 Armor + 8 in a duolane, +5% extra bonus Armor 21 + 8 + 5 = 34 * 1.05 = 36 bonus Armor on level 1.

63 Armor level 1? No problem. At that point, you can pretty much ignore the enemy's auto-attacks.

Exactly. Except i add an additional 4 armor seals with 5 scaling health seals. i also go 4/22/4 masteries.