The problem being that she is the only 325-movement speed champion in the game that doesn't have an escape.
Varus' base movement speed is 330, and many would argue that even he has better self peel than Ashe does with that AoE slow. Even miss fortune has better mobility with that passive and AoE slow.
Seriously, she gets destroyed by any champion that has a gap-closer. Like, ANY gap-closer. Even AP-shen.
SleepyLionCub9 votes"only 325 movespeed champion in the game without an escape"
ZerglingOne4 votes"only 325 movespeed champion in the game without an escape"
Hey, you can bump yourself forward 100 units with the wall. It's not much but it's more than Ashe has!
MF tho. Take damage and she's in the same boat as Ashe.
Jungle Lux God1 votesBumping forward 100 units with the wall is probably not the best idea when one misclick could bump you backward 100 units with the wall.
GigglingAngel1 votesHer wall?
SleepyLionCub1 votesHer wall?
If we are gonna count Anivia's wall, we best count Ashe's Ult.
GigglingAngel1 votesA regular ability with a 25 second cooldown that's meant for actual escapes or trapping enemies is not the same as a distance-based ult with a 80-100 second cooldown that's meant to damage and stun. It can be used for such purpose if needed, but its power isn't focused around escaping. The focus is around actually engaging.
Voluug136 votesAshe is, and always will be, a niche pick.
Reworking a champion doesnt mean you make them generalistic ''do all'' fighters with CC, mobility and damage. It means you fix what is wrong with the champion that doesnt let them fulfill their role/niche correctly. And this rework did it pretty well.
Abyssphere4 votesSona and Zyra don't have escapes either, they're 325.
yukonl1 votesThough you could argue that Sona has her ult and a low cooldown burst speed ability in her E. Zyra has pretty decent self peel via her snare, slowing plants, and ult.
RSE ChippTheFox1 votesSona and Zyra don't have escapes either, they're 325.
Sona has a movmentspeed buff and an aoE stun Zyra has an AoE knockup and an AoE snare and an AoE slow.
What?
Abyssphere2 votes[{quoted}](name=RSE ChippTheFox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=52AVi019,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-05-15T00:35:14.579+0000)
Sona has a movmentspeed buff and an aoE stun Zyra has an AoE knockup and an AoE snare and an AoE slow.
What?
Ashe has a stun and a perma-slow attached to basic attacks.
Crowd control isn't an escape. Sona's movement speed boost is nice but Zyra doesn't count as a champ with an escape just because her CC is more layered than Ashe's.
Jungle Lux God1 votesCrowd control isn't an escape, but it certainly be used to escape.
A well-placed stun from Ashe ult or a well-placed snare from Zyra's E can help ensure that you escape from an enemy champion, but by themselves they aren't escapes.
Abyssphere1 votesCrowd control isn't an escape, but it certainly be used to escape.
A well-placed stun from Ashe ult or a well-placed snare from Zyra's E can help ensure that you escape from an enemy champion, but by themselves they aren't escapes.
Agreed on this :) My view is that CC isn't an escape because it doesn't get you out of the situation, just reduces the enemy's chance to take advantage of it. It can be used as an escape for sure, I just mean that when I think of "escape" I think an ejector button :P And people like Zyra don't have that.
RSE ChippTheFox1 votesAshe has a stun and a perma-slow attached to basic attacks.
Crowd control isn't an escape. Sona's movement speed boost is nice but Zyra doesn't count as a champ with an escape just because her CC is more layered than Ashe's.
I don't see how using an IN GAME ability to ESCAPE from DYING is not considered an ESCAPE. lol. Your logic makes ZERO sense. You're basically saying any move in the game that isn't walking or Dashing is not a type of escape.
...okay.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=RSE ChippTheFox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=52AVi019,comment-id=0002000100000001,timestamp=2015-05-15T01:07:42.755+0000)
I don't see how using an IN GAME ability to ESCAPE from DYING is not considered an ESCAPE. lol. Your logic makes ZERO sense. You're basically saying any move in the game that isn't walking or Dashing is not a type of escape.
...okay.
I don't get why you're taking issue with me and not the OP, then. If you have such a problem with me thinking Zyra has no escape then you should also have a problem with the OP thinking Ashe has no escape when she has crowd control herself.
BakedLotion3 votesHave u even played her? Her damage and cc is fucking insane. I had an ie and i literally activated q, auto'd once and it took out like 25% of their hp. Not to mention the insane slow amount with q on
Late game, I had a BT and it healed me for like 200-300 each auto
Marmara3 votesHave u even played her? Her damage and cc is fucking insane. I had an ie and i literally activated q, auto'd once and it took out like 25% of their hp. Not to mention the insane slow amount with q on
Late game, I had a BT and it healed me for like 200-300 each auto
That's assuming that you are able to get a BT.
If the enemy team has a Leona support and a Vi jungle and a Leblanc mid there is almost no chance in hell.
Angry Monster1 votesits called niche pick.
NuckaChucka2 votesIf the enemy team has that then you are left with few choices. Urgot might be able to survive that lol.
:P
Narasimha1 votesYou're making it sound like a lot of adcs could get away from that.
IcyPepper2 votesVi doesn't give a shit about mobility.
Her ult makes her equally mobile. :3
straight4free2 votesYou're making it sound like a lot of adcs could get away from that.
I think your choices are basically Sivir or Sivir.
Wheatloaf1 votesAnd even then things are looking grim.
straight4free1 votesAnd even then things are looking grim.
With flash, ult, e and heal, you should be OK.
Shockforce1 votesYou basically want 
or 
... 
...
Or, you want to be 
so you can have an excuse to build a 
MVDuneCats1 votesIt would probably be unhealthy for a single ADC champ to be self sufficient in surviving against Leona, Vi and Leblanc. Good thing Ashe should have teammates.
Jungle Lux God3 votesAshe being the only champion with 325 movement speed without an escape is probably a good thing because she would be broken if she did have an escape.
A permanent slow makes it really difficult for some champions to reach her, and her 600 range allows her to prevent the enemy champion from reaching her well beyond some opponents are even in range. Add an escape, and you have a markswoman that is somehow even more annoying than Kalista for a large portion of the cast because of her combination of CC and that escape that she would get.
RSE ChippTheFox1 votesAshe being the only champion with 325 movement speed without an escape is probably a good thing because she would be broken if she did have an escape.
A permanent slow makes it really difficult for some champions to reach her, and her 600 range allows her to prevent the enemy champion from reaching her well beyond some opponents are even in range. Add an escape, and you have a markswoman that is somehow even more annoying than Kalista for a large portion of the cast because of her combination of CC and that escape that she would get.
Don't forget Ashe also now has 100% Crit rate at level one... Even if it's not 200% late game it can go over that full build....
Jungle Lux God1 votesShe may have 100% crit rate at level one, but it doesn't mean a whole lot when your crit damage multiplier is at 1.1 instead of the usual 2.0.
Raptors Go Rawr2 votesUh. Kog'maw says hi!
EvilRabbitt1 votesHe says it twice though =P Which is fun. =D
RSE ChippTheFox2 votesFor people posting dumb champions that have AoE stuns/Slows/Movment speed buffs... please stop
The only two people without real escapes are Kog and Urgot. Only have a slow and it's super avoidable.
kile1471 votesKog's slow isn't bad, at max rank it's 52% which is pretty effective when placed correctly. Of course, he's squishy enough that if they do get over it you die, and if you're against someone who doesn't care about slows 
(and many more!) then you're fucked.
slighguy2 votesRito really dropped the ball on this one. I'm new to the boards but with the practical removal of one of my favorite champs, I felt I needed to speak out.
Ashe is no longer the poke sniping frost archer she once was. Though there is nothing specifically stated that she is/was a sniper, her kit(long range scouting, focus for one shot, long range shot ult) as well as being an archer(archers are accurate single target marksmen) always painted her that way to me. She has since been transformed into a frost machine gun. And while her new kit works fine, it ruined what was a thematically sound champ, and I will miss the cool, calm, and collected ice sniper of original champion pool.
After reading through some of the boards, I noticed a common complaint about Ashe's passive being ineffective which i do not agree with at all. Ashe's passive gave her several advantages. Of of which being the advantage of guaranteed critical strikes at level 1! No other champs have built in crit available at level one except Draven and Trynd (If more, sorry) my point is there are few). Even at later levels the passive regenerates so quickly that you can easily use it multiple times in the team poke dances and really help follow the engage or make the enemy think twice about coming in. (nothin' makes em think twice like a sudden, guaranteed static shiv + infinity edge crit pop to the face).
Ashe's passive rewarded you for successfully executing a certain adc skill; freezing the lane. The issue with this is that most other adc's are practically full autoing minion waves forcing you to either farm under tower (a useful skill to develop for both adc and support btw) or keep up with the enemy adc's autofest. If the Ashe player attempts to keep up, suddenly the passive is available less and less and whaddya-know, less and less effective.
If the Ashe player is forced under turret and cannot effectively farm (on their own or with support help), then her hawkshot passive kept the gold gap from becoming too wide and allowed the possibility of catching up if you found some free farm. In addition to that, the gold income gave the experienced Ashe player the means to gain item power spikes slightly ahead of her more mobile enemies which would allow her to become a competing or even dominating force in lane. I also felt the gold income passive worked very well with her kit thematically in that one surviving out in the glaciers would have to squeeze the most use out of any found resource.
She no longer puts, "All the world on one arrow." either. I always felt that was referring to mare than her ult. Being able to collect one's self and focus to perform under pressure is a hallmark of a great sniper. Trees (and hence, arrows) are Porobably rare in the Freljord which is all the more reason Ashe would need to focus to make each arrow count. Now Ashe must fire at least 2 to critically strike her targets, hardly the mark of a sniper.
Now we can start to see how much Ashe has changed thematically, begging the question; If you're going to change the champion so dramatically, why not just make a new one? The frost flurry and cone of cold could easily have been put on a new ap auto attacker a'la Kayle.
The nature of her passives, in addition to her lack of a hard escape mechanic (no dash) required her to be played with patience and discipline in order to be effective. She was difficult and different and now forever gone.
I would have to guess that the original designer of Ashe no longer works with riot or didn't realize how perfect they made her on the first time around.
Just a few thoughts
TL/DR: Ashe went from long range thematically unique poke sniper adc to short range machine gun mish-mash and I don't approve
(P.S. Rito plz leave the original champs alone, just put the new abilities on new champs or make small tweaks to current abilities at the most(like veiger's skill shot change))
Vespertinity1 votesShe has a permaslow, a global stun and crits on every autoattack after the first. If she also had an escape, she'd be impossible to deal with.
Rinky Dinky1 votesIts a good thing frontlines, cc, peel, and positioning exist
OperationDEEZ11 votes"but muh mobility" Yeah, fuck you
Only Play Darius1 votes5ms is nothing. Honestly one MS rune gives you about that much before boots.
Transgressor1 votesNew Ashe's fucking great man. She feels nice, she does damage, her slow's great. You could argue she needs teammates to work, but that could be said for many other champions too.
Karcist1 votesThe problem being that she is the only 325-movement speed champion in the game that doesn't have an escape.
Varus' base movement speed is 330, and many would argue that even he has better self peel than Ashe does with that AoE slow. Even miss fortune has better mobility with that passive and AoE slow.
Seriously, she gets destroyed by any champion that has a gap-closer. Like, ANY gap-closer. Even AP-shen.
RSE ChippTheFox1 votesSoraka has Self sustain and an AoE snare Sona has an AoE movment speed buff, and a AoE stun Aniva has a HUGE AoE slow and an AoE stun. Zyra has an AoE slow, HUGE AoE knockup and an AoE Snare. Kog is the only one here that doesn't have a REAL escape.
Battlecast Sona1 votes"self sustain"? She can't run away. People listing CC as "escapes" are ridiculous. That's called "self-peel", and it is not an escape.
Soraka can't use her E to force a Vi into a bad position when she gets ulted.
Anivia can't use her stun to reaction dodge an Ashe arrow.
Zyra can't use her AoE knockup to dodge a blitz hook/nidalee spear from the bush.
Mobility/escapes are not the same thing as self-peel, and they are not interchangeable.
Shroom Junkie1 votesI disagree. Ashe, though low movement speed and no real escapes, is the only champion with a constant slow along with damage and range to back it up. Plus, her R initiate is nuts if you can burst down a key target fast enough.
FourVsFive1 votesDude all her attacks slow you even basic attack.. of course she should be slow..
NuSix31 votesShe's a learn how to play champ. I'm surprised she gt a rework at all.
Takhuan1 votesPeople grab Ashe for the arrow. It's great for peeling and initiating fights.
Reikken1 votesIt kind of does solve that problem:
She can space her hawkshots better to avoid getting ganked if someone does get up in her face, volley instantly stacks her passive to full, and then she can Q and outdamage them
Red Frostraven1 votesProblems: 1: Half of the melee characters can teleport or jump vast distances to close gaps. Katarina can walk up mid lane in plain sight and hit Ashe with her E before Ashe has the chance to fire anything at Katarina. Who's ranged? Really? The same applies to Zed. No need for stealth -- they can just go straight into Ashe's face from the front.
2: Why didn't the AP on her ult get reworked? I mean; The only reason there's AP on her ult is to make someone using the wrong runepage feel less bad. And quite frankly, I'd rather see those two abilities separated: Make the E deal a lot of damage, and make R a stun. Or vice versa. I only unlock E on Ashe at level 12 now.