Some Things About Support

TricolorStar··12 votes·1,407 views

So there's been a lot of complaints about support from a lot of different issues. Like...

A lot.

As a support main, I'd like to offer my point of view.

Mages in the Botlane: (Sounds like Angels in the Outfield lol) Here's why people take mages as supports in a nutshell; 1. Traditional supports lack agency and damage, two things that are incredibly important 2. You can possibly carry if you're playing a mage support like Zyra or Vel'Koz so you're not chained to your ADC at the hip 3. A lot of supports have super binary playstyles that aren't engaging or fun Until Riot makes the support role more appealing to actual supports (Enchanters, Disruptors, and the like), we will keep seeing the likes of Brand, Malzahar, and Zyra dominating the support role. In short, damage is too valuable, and traditional supports don't have enough visible impact to be appealing to players.

Support Itemization: This one really grinds my gears. There's been cries for Redemption to get nerfed, but literally one item in two seasons comes out that makes support an engaging role and y'all want to see it dumpster'd. This is why no one wants to support, because you literally can never win. Redemption is an active item that can turn teamfights around, just like Zhonya's, just like Edge of Night, just like BOTRK. It is not different from those items just because it's a supp item. People think that just because you're playing support you can't have a huge impact on teamfights, and Redemption rocked their world when they saw supports coming into their own colors, and frankly I think it scared them. Support items are strong (even if there's only, like, 5 good ones), but they are just as strong, if not weaker, than items designed for mages or ADCs.

"Support is Easy": **Fuck. **You. I have been so many comments and threads reducing support mains to shield and heal bots. You. You are the problem. You are why people don't want to play support. Supports are the most important players on the team. They have to have the best map awareness, the best teamfight coordination, and most of all, they need to know how to play from behind. All you toxic ADC mains out there would be nothing, nothing, without a support keeping you alive. And just because some supports have binary kits (Soraka, Janna), does not make them easy. Ashe, Vayne, and Jinx have binary kits that let them deal shitloads of damage in a short time, but Soraka, Janna, and Nami don't have the same luxury. And on top of all of that, guess who is usually focused in a teamfight? Supports. If a lane goes wrong, who's blamed? The support. Even though the support is designed to provide buffs and help, not to carry a lane by themself. It's ridiculous the amount of pressure placed on this role. And to add to it, you will be one or two levels behind, gold starved, and bitched at because ward coverage is weird or you're not fawning over your ADC hand and foot.

Riot is making good steps towards making support more impactful (Redemption and Knight's Vow are amazing items, fight me), but we have a long ways to go to making it on par with the other roles.

17 Comments

Silverjust4 votes

I think the problem is not that redemption and locket are too strong, the problem is these are the only strong support items and you hve to build them in every game. Even tanky supports

draecina3 votes

Very well put

Zielmann2 votes

As a support main to another support main, the redemption/locket build does need nerfs. My proposed change would simply be to make the % bonus healing/shielding stat only apply to champion abilities. Maybe you can include summoners in there, too. But part of what makes that build so good right now is that your bonus heal/shield stat further increases the amount of healing from redemption and shielding from locket. By feel of the items alone, they seem like they were balanced around their own base values and not really intended to be increased by 30-40% or so combined from items/masteries. This makes balancing the items incredibly difficult, because you either balance them around building all the bonus healing/shielding stat and make them fairly poor until you have some items, or else you make them self-sufficient and they're too strong once you've bumped up the values on it through your items.

What frustrates me most is that the redemption/locket build is basically what's propping up enchanters as viable right now. They're still pulling decent pick and win rates, but their item builds are still pretty much locked in. They're only viable because they make the best use of the support build. If the build were nerfed to where it was actually healthy, Riot would need to go through and address the entire class of enchanters, as they would be pulling the one thing from under them that keeps them viable.

The concept of adding a new stat for supports to scale with isn't bad. But the current implementation is incomplete at best.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

This. Well said. I was going to say I agree with OP's sentiment, but their reasoning stretches farther from mine the farther I read in their post.

Mages definitely are not the 'problem' or at least they would stop being first choices if standard supports felt more impactful.

Your reasoning on the items serving as a crutch is exactly how I've been feeling. I tried to play some support without these items and it really hurt my team when the opponents had them and we didn't. And that sucks, because build stagnation is a really crappy experience.

OP takes it a little far with the rant about people saying support is easy. Like, people are jerks for calling it easy.... but claiming being the most important is a little too self-centered to use in a respectable argument. The whole last section by the OP is basically just a rant.

Skias2 votes

{quoted}

As a support main to another support main, the redemption/locket build does need nerfs. My proposed change would simply be to make the % bonus healing/shielding stat only apply to champion abilities. Maybe you can include summoners in there, too. But part of what makes that build so good right now is that your bonus heal/shield stat further increases the amount of healing from redemption and shielding from locket. By feel of the items alone, they seem like they were balanced around their own base values and not really intended to be increased by 30-40% or so combined from items/masteries. This makes balancing the items incredibly difficult, because you either balance them around building all the bonus healing/shielding stat and make them fairly poor until you have some items, or else you make them self-sufficient and they're too strong once you've bumped up the values on it through your items.

What frustrates me most is that the redemption/locket build is basically what's propping up enchanters as viable right now. They're still pulling decent pick and win rates, but their item builds are still pretty much locked in. They're only viable because they make the best use of the support build. If the build were nerfed to where it was actually healthy, Riot would need to go through and address the entire class of enchanters, as they would be pulling the one thing from under them that keeps them viable.

The concept of adding a new stat for supports to scale with isn't bad. But the current implementation is incomplete at best.

For a long while, I felt Taric was fine the way he was. Now that you get shredded by every goddamn thing, I feel like he needs power taken out of his ult and pumped into his early game. Getting through early game is hell and late game is trash because of how worthless resistances become late.

Anraton2 votes

Hi

I'm also manly playing support. Some thoughts about it.

{quoted}

Mages in the Botlane:

Yes right ... Damage > Sustain. Good example is the Taric rework .. while you were able to outsustane virtually any damage on laning phase with heal max with the old Taric, the new Taric just can't because of the stack mechanic .. yes heal and shield are really strong on teamfights but laningphase is almost only about landing stun and deal damage.

{quoted}

Support Itemization:

Well ... support items should emphasize support abilities ... yes item 3107 grants +10% shield and heal bonus but .. the real big effect is about the activ heal, which not even has a reduced effect on successive use like the heal summoner spell. The problem about the item I see is, that everyone can buy and use it effecively (greetings Ivern with item 3107 first rush). I think the active ability should be changed ... something like .. 1. on activation the nearest 2 allies are also affected from heal/shield -> additional range or targets .. working with ablities or other active items (i.e. item 3401 ) 2. on activation then next heal/shield gains double value and duration.

The intention is not, to distroy the item but to make it only work on supports or someone who is realy dedicating to being supportive. I.E. if i pick Leona as support who has neither heal nor shield abilities the combination of item 3401 is till strong but the "hey i am super behind top lane Rumble - i'll buy item 3107 for the additional heal" .. well that guy shouldn't have a such great impact with the active ability.

Skias2 votes

{quoted}

Hi

I'm also manly playing support. Some thoughts about it.

Yes right ... Damage > Sustain. Good example is the Taric rework .. while you were able to outsustane virtually any damage on laning phase with heal max with the old Taric, the new Taric just can't because of the stack mechanic .. yes heal and shield are really strong on teamfights but laningphase is almost only about landing stun and deal damage.

Well ... support items should emphasize support abilities ... yes item 3107 grants +10% shield and heal bonus but .. the real big effect is about the activ heal, which not even has a reduced effect on successive use like the heal summoner spell. The problem about the item I see is, that everyone can buy and use it effecively (greetings Ivern with item 3107 first rush). I think the active ability should be changed ... something like .. 1. on activation the nearest 2 allies are also affected from heal/shield -> additional range or targets .. working with ablities or other active items (i.e. item 3401 ) 2. on activation then next heal/shield gains double value and duration.

The intention is not, to distroy the item but to make it only work on supports or someone who is realy dedicating to being supportive. I.E. if i pick Leona as support who has neither heal nor shield abilities the combination of item 3401 is till strong but the "hey i am super behind top lane Rumble - i'll buy item 3107 for the additional heal" .. well that guy shouldn't have a such great impact with the active ability.

%Healing and Shield isn't even that great on Taric. His bases are so low, it's basically worthless. He basically has a highish uptime on Windspeaker's resistances and no one buy redemption for those % bonuses.

Big Lincoln2 votes

support is easy stop inflating your role

TricolorStar3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4vr1TKcR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-04T17:30:58.772+0000)

support is easy stop inflating your role

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2015/01/16/surejan.w1200.h630.jpg

Yara03 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4vr1TKcR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-04T17:30:58.772+0000)

support is easy stop inflating your role

No being a shitty support is easy.

Aptest2 votes

on principle i agree with you however i have some caveats:

traditional supports don't have enough visible impact to be appealing to players

They do, but the kind they have is not appealing to players. Supports have power with no agency attached to it: power that is activated (if you are good with timing) at the whim of your team or according to the decision of your opponents. That is unappealing.

literally one item in two seasons comes out that makes support an engaging role

I sincerely hope you are talking about ZZrot ( <3 ), because redemption is boring. It has the exact same problem as the binary kits of supports: lack of ability to force opponents to deal with you making decisions for them (agency)

And here is my caveat. I don't want to purchase redemption. It's not a fun item for me, it give me nothing I value as a player exempt that it makes me win because it's that good. It's an item that allows me to sacrifice my fun in the game for the benefit of winning and that is not, IMHO, a good trade from a game design perspective.

Ashe, Vayne, and Jinx have binary kits that let them deal

right now the problem for the support role is not champion design, and it is not item design. it is the tradeoff given to ADCs by the game: unsupported, everybody shits on you, and supported you shit on everyone. ADC players opt into this tradeoff and are given a sizeable benefit for doing so. But what about supports?

The benefit of making the ADC king is not sufficient because the kingmaker's fantasy requires that i choose the king, not that I am assigned it at game start.

Åeolus1 votes

Who complains about this?

Neclord1 votes

{quoted}

Supports are the most important players on the team.

Come on dude. This diatribe isn't how you change people's minds.

Every role is equally important, the point of this game is to work as a unit. However, some roles will be more paramount to a team's success depending on the picks at hand.

Sometimes as a support you will be a heal bot, sometimes you will be the key to winning teamfights through initiation/peel, sometimes you will be responsible for keeping the key champion of the team alive, sometimes you will be next to useless and can only contribute significantly through solid vision control. There are many niches that you will be required to fill each game. It's not always the same.

Anhartamin3 votes

[deleted]

Neclord1 votes

And how do we get to later in the game in the first place?

All roles need eachother. Some more than others depending on specific factors ingame.

Errastas1 votes

I just pick Vel or Brand, put my adc on my back and tell him to enjoy the ride

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

" . . . and most of all, they need to know how to play from behind. All you toxic ADC mains out there would be nothing, nothing, without a support keeping you alive. And just because some supports have binary kits (Soraka, Janna), does not make them easy." [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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