Veigar Was Hit Really Hard By the DFG Change

Lucifer·Feb 13, 2015·42 votes·2,474 views

So we decided to nerf him

30 Comments

NarasimhaFeb 13, 20159 votes

Isn't this exactly what people said about Ahri?

Shadow GilgameshFeb 13, 201519 votes

Technically yes, but there was the understandable angle that a lot of people were missing. Everyone that wanted Ahri to just be an assassin saw it as a huge nerf, but anyone who remembered kite mage Ahri knew the movespeed buff was way more valuable than the damage boost on charm.

Veigar on the other hand, mostly just got numbers weakened on 3 of his 4 abilities. His ult has a lower ratio with a mana cost reduction and slight cooldown lowering as "compensation", his stun now has startup instead of being instant, with the same sort of compensation, which is possibly the biggest nerf. And his Q is now a skillshot, which means his farming mechanic now requires you to have clear shots, and late game when it's being used offensively instead of for farming it actually has a HIGHER cooldown than live, the only upside is that it can hit 2 targets instead of 1, which COULD be worth it, but we'll have to wait and see.

Granted, I don't play Veigar, but compared to Ahri becoming a super kite mage with the movespeed boost, and Fizz just GETTING a DFG damage boost in his kit, this is a way worse set of changes, despite Riot said that Veigar was one of the champs hit hardest by the DFGs removal.

KeevalroyFeb 14, 20153 votes

Everyone that wanted Ahri to just be an assassin saw it as a huge nerf, but anyone who remembered kite mage Ahri knew the movespeed buff was way more valuable than the damage boost on charm.

That's why I'm still calling it a nerf regardless of how strong she is with the power shifts. The way she plays feels so awkward and wrong now.

TrumpetFeb 14, 20151 votes

I feel the exact opposite. Ahri is a very seductive character and the kite style fits her theme a lot more than assassin.

KeevalroyFeb 14, 20151 votes

Seductive character = running away?

How about a seductive character that toys with you until you're angry about it, becoming careless, catches you making a misstep, then kills you before you can respond? I'd say that fits her identity a hell of a lot more.

AuryielFeb 13, 20156 votes

The delay on his E is so fkin hilarious, it's unbelievable.

0.75 second? Really? Who the fuck thought this was a good idea...

sir d wreckFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The delay on his W is so fkin hilarious, it's unbelievable.

0.75 second? Really? Who the fuck thought this was a good idea...

When you see the stun coming down, just grab a cup of coffee, take a leisurely sip, and then move to the side and avoid it.

Ship 0F DucksFeb 13, 20155 votes

i seriously hate that they lowered Ult ratio.......now u HAVE to farm in lane to do good.....

LatticeGrimoireFeb 13, 20153 votes

Not at all you still have a 500+%100 ap + %80 or your targets ap and it is a click on so it is really easy to land. Also you get a better AP ratio on your targets ap than they do. so even if you do really bad in lain you still get free AP by CS and you will still have a 500 + %180 ap if you can mach your mach up.

Ship 0F DucksFeb 13, 20157 votes

at all you still have a 500+%100 ap + %80 or your targets ap

FIRST OF ALL: he lost alot of damage when DFG was removed...... this is suppose to be a compensation

NOW: Ultimate went down from %120 to %100 ratio = nerf......80% target's ap was already there....you'll feel this 20% when you're vsing AD midlane

E now has a delay (longer than Leona's Ultimate).....cant flash stun 2+ people to initiate a team fight. I saw this coming.....now there is counter play. and you're more likely going to miss stun and therefore not land W

lowering ratio on Ult and increasing AP gain from Q is super silly. IT makes u more dependent on farming Q.... no farm on Q = less damage.... now I HAVE to farm with my Q......i cant save it for trades or harass

Honestly they remove DFG and to compensate they nerf is damage and stun :(

They lowered mana costs.....I could always manage my mana but thats not really a buff......it just means i farm using spells than just autos now. i reallly dont like where this is going, i should pick up another champ now ;(

qetzelFeb 13, 20151 votes

Honest questions here, I want to learn.

Don't lower mana costs improve Veigar's laning phase? He couldn't exactly spam spells before. More lane harass is better, right?

On lane safety, is the stun change that bad? I understand that the stun isn't instant any more, but you won't be burst down in 0.75 seconds unless you are horrendously out of position. You will probably need to change the use - block off the jugnler's path rather than stun them instantly - but it is still a useful tool.

Finally, how much more do you think you will get from the Q? I could see it being an incredible amount more, given the lower mana cost and the possible two stacks per cast (unlikely during the laning phase, but midgame farming ramps you right up).

I would appreciate a Veigar player's input on this.

Ship 0F DucksFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Don't lower mana costs improve Veigar's laning phase? He couldn't exactly spam spells before. More lane harass is better, right?

lowering mana costs do help, but right now how veigar is, farming Q in lane is very bad. Your lane opponent would punish you everytime you Q a minion. You cant use stun/W to fight back in lane currently (due to high mana costs and not very reliable...missing stun = him playing even more aggressively for the next 20 seconds) but you can trade with AA+Q+AA. IF You some how manage to have good lane with free farm, you'll only get like 20 extra ap....its not worth it

On lane safety, is the stun change that bad? I understand that the stun isn't instant any more, but you won't be burst down in 0.75 seconds unless you are horrendously out of position.

The main reason i Main'd veigar is because of his CC. its not about being bursted down in 0.75 seconds, but that after your opponent dashes at you....hes going to walk past your stun before he goes onto attacking you to ensure he DOSNT get stunned. If you can't stun him, you cant land W (he'll dodge that too).

Right now what makes veigar so strong is that you can change a losing game into a winning game with just 1 good stun. Flash over a wall stun 3 people...Flash in stun that Lux or ezreal who was trying to poke before a fight....etc annnnd thats going to be gone :(

now you can only use your stun to get people like zed (When he ults) yi, jarv, anyone you KNOW where they will land after a delay. basically now you have 0 chances to win a lane against Leblanc. Can't bait her and stun under tower.

You will probably need to change the use - block off the jugnler's path rather than stun them instantly - but it is still a useful tool.

You can use it to change peoples path but really.. without the change u wont need to change people's path when you can stun them for 2.5 seconds instead by landing the stun ontop of them......and if you really wana change their path, you can always stun beside them.... circle lasts 3 seconds, and they'll try to avoid it.

Finally, how much more do you think you will get from the Q? I could see it being an incredible amount more, given the lower mana cost and the possible two stacks per cast (unlikely during the laning phase, but midgame farming ramps you right up).

The new Q however is actually good, its better farm....2 minions with a cost of 1 spell, and more damage in a team fight.

but his W just ruins his team fight completely

but its still silly, they nerfed ratio on R and made farming easier. Now you HAVE to farm to get the same amount of damage.

I would appreciate a Veigar player's input on this.

LatticeGrimoireFeb 13, 20153 votes

Almost every Mage was hit hard by DFG and they do not have a 500+%180 click on...

Captain VolibearFeb 13, 20153 votes

Q will pass through and hit a second target. Hopefully in practice this makes it just as easy to farm with as ever with the added possibility of, as the old addage goes, farm two birds with one baleful strike.

I feel like the delay on the stun should have earned a reduced delay on dark matter though. It isn't too hard to dodge within the cage when the stun misses, which it will miss more often now.

But we will see. As long as he has the same laugh, he will still be the best.

CoolSpot2Feb 14, 20153 votes

Was I living under a rock? When did veigar become the target for nerfs what in the world .

EpicusmaximoFeb 13, 20152 votes

are you serous?

CerbearusFeb 13, 20152 votes

I like the idea of the changes, we shall see what happens on the PBE

Samflash3Feb 13, 20151 votes

Gotta hit em down when they still down - Rito

But honestly, I like the fact that I can now do something about Veigar cage of Threshness. Will be interesting to see how these changes apply.

lvl 2 lagspikeFeb 14, 20151 votes

riot's definition of the word "compensation" amazes me..

RikariFeb 14, 20151 votes

If it weren't for posts like this i would never know that veigar used dfg. If anyone remembers, Veigar has no counterplay? Also the most insane AP scaling ratio on his ultimate with an Ability to increase his AP with farming and scoring kills. His kit has tons of damage. You could literally fight with 3 spells alone like if you are Ezreal,or if you're lazy two spell twisted fate.

LuciferFeb 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

If it weren't for posts like this i would never know that veigar used dfg. If anyone remembers, Veigar has no counterplay? Also the most insane AP scaling ratio on his ultimate with an Ability to increase his AP with farming and scoring kills. His kit has tons of damage. You could literally fight with 3 spells alone like if you are Ezreal,or if you're lazy two spell twisted fate.

If he was so overpowered why is he /never/ picked in competitive play (or almost ever in ranked, for that matter). The truth is that Veigar isn't strong because he is super squishy and has like NO mobility - In this game, if you don't have mobility you are no longer viable. Removing his stun (which does take skill to position) makes his W nearly impossible to hit. He effectively is losing two skills with this change, and one of them is being made into a skill shot. Not to mention his ult got nerfed hard too. This was supposed to be a compensation, not a massive nerf.

GigglingAngelFeb 14, 20151 votes

He had 5 nerfs and 10 buffs.

Check out my thread here for details and their actual impact: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ZWiYAlKX-lets-look-at-and-contemplate-veigers-pbe-changes

LuciferFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He had 5 nerfs and 10 buffs.

Check out my thread here for details and their actual impact: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ZWiYAlKX-lets-look-at-and-contemplate-veigers-pbe-changes

Number of changes =/= the value of each change. Giving his E a .75 second delay is a significant nerf. Buffing his Q CD by 1 second early game is a minor buff.

GigglingAngelFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Number of changes =/= the value of each change. Giving his E a .75 second delay is a significant nerf. Buffing his Q CD by 1 second early game is a minor buff.

I like how you didn't mention that his Q can now hit two targets instead of one. That includes two champions.

LuciferFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I like how you didn't mention that his Q can now hit two targets instead of one. That includes two champions.

Veigar is about single target damage. His Q hitting two targets (who must be aligned correctly, or it's irrelevant) does almost nothing.

PartholonianFeb 14, 20151 votes

He had two AOE spells before this rework. Now he has three.

EconomiczFeb 14, 20151 votes

The sad thing is that his win rate went up 0.6% after dfg's removal. Were people using it wrong?

DEN TEL0SFeb 14, 20151 votes

A lot of people forget you use it. So now instead of buying an item they don't use they just build more ap or defense. I feel like dfg was overkill most of the time.

MengetsuFeb 14, 20151 votes

I am not a great Leblanc player, however lately I've took to trying Leblanc on Latin North. (Because I get a 50 ping difference (which is huge))

I'm competent, but I've never felt so punished for buying blue elixir into Deathcap versus a Veigar.

On a Side Note: Lately I've taken to the idea of RoA on LB (especially good if you aren't mechanically proficient or FPS is an issue, which when I Distortion, Mimic Distortion my FPS drops to 10..(I blame windows 8))

Anyway...this Veigar, this extremely arrogant player (WHO KILLED ME DURING A DISCONNECT), catches me on a single mistake, got caught by a cage and took 2k plus damage from ult plus an event horizon. As you can probably guess, I died, no DFG, just raw damage against AP builders.. That plus peel from his team and Veig can not only delete the enemy AP mid from a fight, he can force them out of it on presence alone.

Veigar with cage off cool down, isn't fun to play against, like a Rengar top that won't leave his brush, or a Kalista Leona bot lane.

PartholonianFeb 14, 20151 votes

If you're playing a mage against Veigar you need to change your build. Delay Deathcap and build other things like penetration.

For example, Abyssal Scepter would reduce the damage Veigar does to you (instead of increasing it) while still giving you some added damage to him or anybody else (since LB is short ranged enough that her target is pretty much always inside the MR shred aura).