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Tanks vs Offtank

Giovarco··3 votes·841 views

TANKS I think that Tanks are very balanced because they play for their utility/CC with low damage and no offensive scaling. They normally falls behind if his carry can't carry him.

OFFTANKS In an ideal world, I imagine offtanks as Tanks with more damage and less CC/Utility:

  • Avarage/High base damage: they can stomp squishies with flat armor penetration

  • No % armor shred: they (or their teammates) shouldn't kill tanks so quickly

  • Avarage/High Bonus AD scaling: they can invest in offensive items to be more effective against squishies

  • No hard CC: hard CC are only for tanks

  • High base movement speed: tanks are by definition very slow and I guess it should be in this way

  • No shield with high base strength or % of maximum health scaling

However, we know that the real world is different. Let's analyze the popular champions in competitive scenes, so we can indentify the problem. Disclaimer: I like the tank characters, but also the popular champions I'm about to write. It's not a QQ: I just would like the game to be more balanced for tanks.

JarvanIV

  • % of current health damage

  • Avarage MS

  • AoE avarage/high base damage

  • % AoE armor shred

  • Avarage CC: Knock up + slow + zoning wall

  • Shield with high base strength and scaling

  • Attack Speed Aura

  • Can be devastating with AoE team comp

I find J4 pretty balanced. However, he has so much utility on his kit that he could be a tank, not an offtank. What I would adjust:

  • % of current health damage -> flat bonus physical damage according to bonus AD

  • Avarage MS

  • AoE avarage/high base damage and bonus AD scaling

  • AoE % armor shred -> flat armor penetration shred OTHERWISE only J4 gains % armor penetration

  • Avarage CC: Knock up + slow + zoning wall

  • Shield with high base strength and scaling

  • Attack Speed Aura** -> I don't know: maybe gains bonus armor and magic resist when he's nearthe demacian standard?? Anyway, no aura buffs**

  • Can be devastating with AoE team comp

Vi

  • % of maximum health shield

  • Avarage base damage and bonus AD scaling

  • High base MS

  • Self-Attack speed buff

  • % of maximum health damage

  • % armor shred

  • Good AoE CC

I find Vi very fun to play and pretty balanced as a bruiser and devastating with offensive items against squishy targets and tanks

  • % of maximum health shield **-> flat shield strength **

  • Avarage base damage and bonus AD scaling

  • High base MS

  • Self-Attack speed buff

  • % of maximum health damage -> flat bonus physical damage according to bonus AD

  • % armor shred -> Consecutive AA against the same target make Vi gain X flat armor penetration, up to Y OTHERWISE only Vi gains % armor shred

  • Good AoE CC

RekSai Balanced ATM.

LeeSin He does what he pleases.

If you have close to your heart tank character like me, you'll support this thread with your opinion and suggestions. Don't just downvote me because you don't like my advices please. I don't belong in a balanced team. I would like this thread to be a starting point for Riot to balance the game.

Thanks for reading.

PS: Sorry for my bad English >_>

TLDR: In an ideal world, I imagine offtanks as Tanks with more damage and less CC/Utility:

  • Avarage/High base damage: they can stomp squishies with flat armor penetration

  • No % armor shred: they (or their teammates) shouldn't kill tanks so quickly

  • Avarage/High Bonus AD scaling: they can invest in offensive items to be more effective against squishies

  • No hard CC: hard CC are only for tanks

  • High base movement speed: tanks are by definition very slow and I guess it should be in this way

  • No shield with high base strength or % of maximum health scaling

6 Comments

Saulito Senpai1 votes

Vayne + Bork + Last Whisper = Dead tank.

Giovarco1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Saul gank pls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4W5KAnkE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-01T13:21:40.100+0000)

Vayne + Bork + Last Whisper = Dead tank.

I don't care about ADC in this thread. We know that :C

The Paulrus1 votes

While I agree, Bruisers are too strong, Tanks are nowhere near balanced at all. A full on tank should be able to survive a good 30-60 seconds in a teamfight with everyone targeting him. He should be a damage sponge who's only use is being a damage sponge and applying CC. The goal of the tank is to be a damage sponge and make the teamfight last longer so that strategy matters more than who spammed their abilities faster. The problem is, any adc/assassin worth their salt can burst a tank to death in 2-3 seconds. BotRK, LW, Liandrys, Void Staff, Cleaver (to a lesser extent), DFG (which, thank god they removed it). The game is just not fun for tanks right now because BotRK/LW/Void Staff can negate a couple thousand gold worth of defensive purchases.

Giovarco1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Paulrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4W5KAnkE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-02-01T17:30:59.207+0000)

While I agree, Bruisers are too strong, Tanks are nowhere near balanced at all. A full on tank should be able to survive a good 30-60 seconds in a teamfight with everyone targeting him. He should be a damage sponge who's only use is being a damage sponge and applying CC. The goal of the tank is to be a damage sponge and make the teamfight last longer so that strategy matters more than who spammed their abilities faster. The problem is, any adc/assassin worth their salt can burst a tank to death in 2-3 seconds. BotRK, LW, Liandrys, Void Staff, Cleaver (to a lesser extent), DFG (which, thank god they removed it). The game is just not fun for tanks right now because BotRK/LW/Void Staff can negate a couple thousand gold worth of defensive purchases.

Well not 30-60 seconds, but at least 5-6 seconds LOL

DEmperor951 votes

I would say that JarvanIV is the worst offender, and is the only broken-as-hell offtank, since he has everything in his kit, and he doesn't need to get ahead to become so hard to deal with like the others you mentioned. He has as much damage as Assassins early and mid-game, he is as tanky as a full-tank all game, has hard CC on a huge gap-closer, and his Ultimate is a gap-closer+utility+nuke.

Yes, he is 10x worse than LeeSin and needs nerfs Asap.

Erockandroll1 votes

Something I noticed is that the super regen tanks (namely Garen and Mundo) are really more like Bruisers than tanks due to lack of CC. The main problem with Bruisers (at least in the past) was that Bruisers could peel, zone, etc just as well by being a major damage threat. and in the Process, being able to out duel their tank counter parts.

This in mined, I don't really think Creating super tanks would be the best way to balance them. Making them Unkillable is would make them Uninteractive, and at the same time, they really can't do much to carry.

What tanks need is some way to Trade with their Bruiser counterparts with out really having Oppressive damage that scales late. And it seems like %HP damage is one of thee best ways of Accomplishing that.

But I digress, OP seems to be talking about Junglers.

The Thing with Jarven and Vi is that they are what I would call CC fighters. They have some Tankyness, but not as much scaling Tankyness than what a super tank would have. (like mundo's health scaling.) Most of their damage mitigation, (particularly J4) is though their spells. You are not being hit if you have your Opponent stun locked.

The main thing with these champs is I would not actually change their scalling or kit. An off tank like Jarven and Vi, can build both Damage or Tankyness, depending whether they wanted better dueling or Teamfighting, And I would not take that choice away from them.

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