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@Stashu: Possible Cass solution to make nearly everyone happy.

Stez007·12/5/2014, 4:43:24 AM·11 votes·1,367 views

Edit: See, Stashu? People don't even like it when it's as close to old Cass as possible. The people have spoken, revert the rework.

So, while replying to someone in Ginga's last Cass thread, I had a bit of an idea. It was so simple and could be so effective at both making Cass fun and keeping the rework direction (and even keeping the passive, in a form) that I had to draw some attention to it.

It's simple, really. Add Deadly Cadence back...as rank 2 of her passive.

"But Deadly Cadence is what made her a bully!" Yes, it did, but now it'll be gated behind her stacks. "But gating is what you guys don't like!" This is true, however we primarily don't like it because it feels bad: the benefits are largely hidden, there's no additional gameplay in them and they feel like they were stripped from her base kit. Cadence isn't hidden, feels great and adds gameplay--oh, and it helps with her mid-game mana issues, too!

"But Deadly Cadence isn't thematic!" On it's own, no it's not. It "sort-of" fits in with the rhythm of a snake's movement, but it's a bit of a stretch. However, it does fit in with the "gaining power" theme you want to take her in. "How so?" Glad you asked. If she's learning to embrace her curse, then she'll want to use it as much as possible. Simple as that. Snake lady like to poison things. Snake lady poison things lots.

"But she'd still be a bully!" Well, not really. Since it's gated by stacks, she'll only get Cadence by the time the laning phase is ending or already over. No laning=no bully. Meanwhile, she needs mana to teamfight and kill baron/dragon/blue buff, but E doesn't give it to her if she doesn't kill creeps with it. With Cadence she gets to keep that blue bar filled without needing blue (so your jungler can have it) or a Seraphs/RoA (which are otherwise must-haves).

Apart from that change, the AP bonuses and cooldown reduction need to go. Put the CDR back into her kit so she can use Q without it feeling so awkward. W maybe doesn't need it, R doesn't either (though to compensate, a slight reduction would be nice).

As for the AP bonuses, we've still got a third rank to work with. Instead of just dumping the 30% AP into her at rank 3, why not make it a part of Deadly Cadence? X% more damage per stack, maybe? That'd feel a whole lot better than just a flat bonus, even if it is strictly weaker. Gameplay is better than stats.

The first stack can stay as-is (the 5% AP bonus is pretty meaningless at that stage, so it's no real loss). The sustain is welcome and does add gameplay.

So, Stashu. Does that meet with your approval? Cass players, this seem like it'd feel good?

24 Comments

chumbler12/5/2014, 4:55:29 AM15 votes

Or just revert the rework. You know, the correct solution to this whole farce that never should have happened.

yellowbricks12/5/2014, 5:06:11 AM6 votes

Add Deadly Cadence back...

You have my attention...

as rank 2 of her passive.

You lost me. Many people, myself included abhor the stacking passive. This will only add further salt in the wound, hiding even more of her previous power behind the terrible stack mechanic.

What needs to be done is 100% scrap the passive, it does not fit Cass at all, and it's just an utter pain.

Alternatively, do what Chumbler says and completely revert the trash, but knowing riot, they won't ever admit a failure and revert.

Tendrian12/5/2014, 12:38:10 PM6 votes

make nearly everyone happy.

uh-huh

it'll be gated behind her stacks.

sry try again pls

SmokingPuffin12/5/2014, 5:09:55 AM4 votes

I don't think this makes most of the unhappy folks happy.

The unhappy players want more emphasis on poison in her kit. More strength in Q and W, less focus on E. Deadly Cadence is, at its heart, an E enabler.

LongFur Fox12/5/2014, 6:00:56 AM2 votes

Hmm this is actually a good idea. I would however wish for no %ap to be on her passive so her ratio's can be buffed a bit early thus giving her an even more flat power curve. That said i do believe these changes fix a lot if not all the complaints people have with her beside the fact that her passive has a stacking mechanic.

Also to everyone who cannot get over her passive remember stashu said that if we cannot make a passive feel good it will be reverted so trying this out might just be the fastest way to remove the passive (assuming this version still feels bad which i doubt it will)

The Queen Viper12/5/2014, 1:33:57 PM1 votes

Meh.. when you have reached Rank #2, you already have Tear or ROA or Double Doran's or other mana items, so you don't really need Deadly Cadence at that point anymore.

Cass would need it early, when she actually has mana problems and where you have to decide between harassing and farming.

Anyways, the passive is already bad and needs to be reworked. Adding Deadly Cadence doesn't solve this problem... the "stacking" needs to go. Period.

Abyssphere12/5/2014, 3:26:37 PM1 votes

If you want to remove the %AP boost then you need to buff her ratios. As horrible as the passive and its boring AP bonuses are, she cannot cope without the boost with ratios as horrendous as hers. Aspect of the Serpent can only have the damage part removed if most of the missing damage goes back into her ratios. Which is dumb because the whole reason the ratios are gutted is because of the passive's boost >.> But oh well.

I like the idea of Deadly Cadence returning to her passive but it would only make sense as the first threshold. And putting it back in would probably lead to massively increased mana costs, the mana return on Twin Fang being removed etc. Because the theme of this rework is that for everything good Cass gets, she needs two things taken away so it's meaningless.

egirl heal slxt12/5/2014, 4:31:55 PM1 votes

Revert Qs CD back to a base three seconds so she doesn't feel janky as hell until she reaches 200 stacks. I'm unable to weave Qs seamlessly now. ^.^

Saevum12/5/2014, 4:34:55 PM1 votes

"Let's just embrace (get it?) the nerf with this twist"?

-No.

Want her fixed, not gated. Want her fun, adaptable. Not monotonous. Want her with character & synergy, not divided and 'one sided' reliant.

It's not hard, may take time. But i am game to wait, and wait, and wait...

Serpents Embrace12/9/2014, 2:06:40 AM1 votes

So I'd have to wait for 200 stacks to get a real, influential passive back? One that's most influential in laning regardless of my level because it helps curb my mana costs without restricting my itemization?

Re: everyone else - revert the rework.

Saianna12/5/2014, 7:40:08 AM1 votes

So lets stay your idea is implemented. Her new passive works like a charm. But what with guted Q and W damage? Even at max rank and 400 ap W damage is so low that noone feels of dodging that. It hardly deals anything.

I could live with Cass stack passive if only Q and W damage weren't non-existent ;/