Renekton Changes on PBE

I highly doubt it would ush him...so why keep him out of the jungle entirely even as an off-pick when you don´t need to change much (and he worked just fine before the changes)?

Maybe I'm just being presumptuous, but is there any particular reason for keeping Renekton locked in top lane? I always thought it was considered a good thing to open up new roles for champions, but this seems to really be reinforcing that he's meant to only be a top lane bully.

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I've thought about the upped Fury gain on large monsters (wouldn't want it to be too whacky vs. camps with 3/4 monsters), but I don't think we want to push Renekton to the jungle at the moment.

R is currently unchanged. We may tweak the Fury gen at some point in time if Renekton is too strong/too weak, but at the moment, his turning seems pretty close in internal testing so we haven't tweaked it.

He would reach cap at Wraiths early game, but thats about it. Be pretty good at generating fury at Wraiths though, allowing him to actually gank with 50 Fury.

Can you guys at least try it out on the PBE like a few of the canceled Nocturne changes?

But Jungle divversity is good for the game...?

Big thing that has irked me since I started playing Renekton long ago in the age of his release is how unresponsive his 2nd E feels when used in rapid succession. I can't just press "E, E". Instead I end up pressing "E, EEEE".

Actually... come to think of it that goes for using any ability after E. Can we buff the responsiveness on this? Have the next ability que up during E's dash?

;~; B-but...I l-like Jungle....R-Rekton...

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I've thought about the upped Fury gain on large monsters (wouldn't want it to be too whacky vs. camps with 3/4 monsters), but I don't think we want to push Renekton to the jungle at the moment.

R is currently unchanged. We may tweak the Fury gen at some point in time if Renekton is too strong/too weak, but at the moment, his turning seems pretty close in internal testing so we haven't tweaked it.

If you have the time i would like to share some olaf changes that are super in line with your core concepts and for that matter are similar to your renekton changes to a certain degree. If you do not feel comfortable responding on this thread i would greatly urge you (and would appreciate) making a dedicated olaf thread (which might be a shitstorm of snide remarks, hashinshin fanboys, and people who are probably unhappy with a long wait for olaf changes i still feel like it would greatly benefit both the community and the game in the long run and would respect you to try to uphold such a challenge)

I think we can all agree olaf leaves something to be desired when team fighting comes around... so these changes would be targeted at

A) letting him either catch people or do more damage from range because at the moment he has neither compared to pre rework

B) modifying he E power curve through various means to reduce toxicity vs melee champions in the laning phase and increase its effectiveness and utility as the game scales as well as amplifying his core theme as a sustain tank

C) giving olaf a clear role without returning him to raidboss status of s2/s3

1st of all i would like to give my most controversial change

E) increase the cooldown at early levels and increase the cost back to 40 percent of the damage value. In exchange olaf's E now applies all on hit effects, most importantly, minion agro and lifesteal. With this change you will accomplish three things. 1) change the abilities scaling so it is drastically less effective in lane (where honestly its the biggest problem) toward late game 2) create an incentive for damage builds and make them feel satisfying for the olaf player (another area where hes kind of wanting) 3) return a old interaction between w and e as well as adding counterplay and stressing the importance of w as a long cd meaningful trading tool throughout the game (clarity) as well as solidifying and placing more importance on his sustain tank thematic

In my mind there is no downside to the above change. ive tried to look at it objectively from all angles and through both a player lens as well as riots balance team lens. I think this is a rather stale area in olaf's kit with alot of opportunity for tuning or balance tools to be added in a similar way to renekton.

Second of all i would like to say that while the nerf to q from a 54% slow to a 45% slow may have been justified (olaf was very strong in the karma sivir medallion meta) many of the things that made olaf a strong competitive pick have now been eliminated, and the game is more offensively inclined than every before (dragon buffs as a whole and baron removal of regen)

In this regard as a designer i feel you have options on what to do with his q.

From my perspective his q is bogged down by two different design goals.
-olafs q power should come from its poke and ranged damage as well as vision -olafs q power should come from its slow and ability to catch opponents

You should probably explore one of these and not both at the same time!!!

As a designer you went out of your way to demonstrate that q would be alot less of a poke tool. Even though removing ad from W was more targeting this position in the rework, you decided to take ten damage off of q at all levels. your goal here seems to be absolutely clear that his q doesn't have its power loaded into poke.

While this may be fine the nerf to olafs q slow seems to be targeted at what the community and the pro scene sees as problematic inside of his kit. When olaf can catch people he is an overwhelming champion......So the balance team nerfed his slow leaving an immensely unsatisfying olaf to play

Because of the above results of his changes i think you have two options to change olaf either increase his q as a ranged wave clear and poke tool (increase ad ratio base damage ect and remove some of the slow) or stick to your original guns and shave the fat off this multi purpose tool so olaf can catch people when he needs to (increase the cd when he doesnt pick up. lower base damage ect)

Im counting on you man!!!! thanks for your time in advance

[{quoted}](name=zane yalgir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ysELauA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2014-12-20T06:15:54.917+0000)

this is a nerf you'll understand after you play him post change.... assuming he doesn't still rage from skilling on cs its a definitive nerf if he can still rage on cs through skills id toss a coin cause of rage loss rate

re read to be sure this is a nerf his laning is weak as hell since all the lane fury came from a well placed skill on cs and thats halved with a double increase to the fury decay

If you dive in without fury though, you lose out on a LOT of damage and if you do the combo, you run the possibility of getting that 50 as you finish the combo, then when you E back, you just lost all that fury and none of it was used against your opponent and now just shoved your lane harder than a normal E back would've done and if you do this when ever your CD's are up rather than when you have the fury to do so, you can open yourself up to ganks, cause your opponent to easily turn the tides by you have absolutely no fury and you're on full CDs. A usual lane you counter with Ren is Riven and Shen and popularly top right now is Lissandra, Riven (Depending on Tier), and Jax. Usually against Riven, you can't quite combo her. If you do your tactic, you end up getting stomped by her just following up with an E+Q+W+Q+Q to chase you the hell off. Jax can easily press E after, or during to block your W, and then Q at you to ruin your combo. Lissandra would stop your E back entirely and then out trade you because you didn't wait for your Fury. Shen would just laugh your damage off with a quick Q+E+AA combo to heal your damage back and trade equally.

Overall, you can't rely on an E+W+Q+E combo with your E on such a high base CD unless you have the fury to make it worth it every single time. Reducing the fury gen on minions makes you less of a threat, especially on champs who will abuse the fact that you don't have fury to trade well like a Riven, Jayce, or Jax and just whack you hard. This makes trading with a Garen and Darius even scarier. They know if you're low on fury or you just E'd away after combo'ing and possibly just used the last of your fury, that you're a sitting duck. With a little bit of tenacity, or just pressing Garen's W, they can negate the stun and trade before you E back, then chase you and destroy you. Ren may not require fury to do damage, but to trade equally with high damage champions who have tankiness or chase and/or escape ability? He has to have it or he just gets out traded. Every champ has to have his downfalls, but this exaggerates Renekton's.

Personally, I do have the PBE and I DID test this. Sadly, the PBE is full of a lot of people who aren't even on par with people who are sitting in Bronze, so I wouldn't say the test is 100% accurate. Through what I was noticing, my abilities, even on FULL waves with the cannon, the Fury gen with E and Q was incredibly low. The only way it seems to accurately gain fury is the AA the minions, but that takes 10 AA's per 50 fury. Most would think, "That's not bad." then you realize 10 minions is nearly 2 waves. You can AA minions more than once, obviously, but then you push your lane and in most cases, that's not exactly a good thing unless your opponent is pushing as hard as you are. I will mention that I did rape my lane in the games that I played, but again, that was mostly due to the horrific players you find on the PBE. I honestly should not have been able to go 10/1 before taking my first turret with only going B twice and dying once to a Vladimir. Just going off of just the fury gen though, it felt incredibly lacking and it lessened the amount of time I usually take to be able to do a devastating 50 fury, without pushing. Of course when it came to team fights, even without pressing my R, I was having no issues keeping up my fury. It was to the point when I would be able to E through minions with 50 fury, W a squishy, Q 2 or 3 of them at once, and have over 50 fury again to be able to do a max fury Q in a second or two. Of course, because of being fed as Renekton, it usually went W a squishy, press Q then AA and they're dead, then moving on to the next target with 50 fury at the ready. For AD Renekton, this is horrifically scary. Tank Ren, which is the more viable way, would likely be rolling in free 40% of his bonus AD all fight long, especially with your R going.

Well, you're right and wrong. Renekton is a lane bully BECAUSE of his fury. Making it decay faster can be a nerf if you're against some one who pokes a lot and keeps you low on fury because of it like Lissandra and Gnar would do all day long. There's also the fact they reduced the fury generated on minions and Ren NEEDS Fury to properly trade with champions like Liss and Gnar, otherwise he'll E in, W, Q, then E back. Half way through your Q animation, they'll be unstunned because you didn't go in with fury, so they'll be going balls deep on you since you're now in their minions and chase you away from the minions, making you lose the trade.

Renekton bullies his lane by gaining fury, diving into the minions to his enemies, W'ing with 50 fury, then pressing Q in the minions and on his opponent, then E'ing back. Less fury, less often to be able to dive in and bully, thus reducing his overall effectiveness. Tested it and it's a pretty harsh nerf to his laning phase unless your opponent is melee and you can E near them for a quick Q, then E'ing back, without using a 50 fury Dice that is.

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ysELauA,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2014-12-19T07:03:33.311+0000)

You must lack reading capabilities. There is no changes at all to his damage. If you properly read what has been shown, he's gained fury against champs and less against minions and his Q now heals based on your Q's BASE damage rather than what your Q actually does. This means the heal is no longer affected by mitigation. He heals for more, helping him sustain, but he now gains less fury unless he's against a melee that eats his Q's anytime they go for a minion, and even then, that's a nerf since he usually Q'd entire minion waves for fury, so... His damage is the exact same. His healing is up. His fury outside of team fights is nerfed.

His E loses 225% AD scaling. So you must be lacking the reading capabilities.