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Let's talk about Ziggs, maybe?

CrossedOverKirby··3 votes·985 views

Hi, guys!

I'm not really a good player, but I am a big fan (and I used to pretty much main) Ziggs . I was just wondering how the community at large used his ultimate. I always found it hard to use its full range for anything but long-range clear (which is not what I should really be using it for). Just, uh, do you guys use the range of the ult alot of other things? Or do you guys mainly use it for short-range to medium-range kills?

Aditionally, now with the nerfs to mana regen. item 3165 , item 3174, or both?

14 Comments

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Long-range Ziggs ult purpose, iIrc:

  • Waveclear
  • Blue steal
  • Dragon/Baron Check/Steal
  • Kill Secure during laning phase, both for your own and for other lanes
  • Area Denial - Most people are reluctant to walk through a Ziggs ultimate.
CrossedOverKirby2 votes

The only point I would really have to argue is the kill secure. I can certianly see short range, but it takes a lot of advanced planning for the long range kill, because unless they're distracted looking at the shop, they're gonna dart away, especially if they see you. Maybe I'm just unskilled, but I can only remember a few select times I got a secured kill at long-range.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

No, you're right - as a kill secure tool, it isn't as reliable as Requiem or Ace-in-the-Hole, due to its skillshot nature.

However, I remember quite a few opportunities when I got out of a fight, both low on mana and low on health, as bot lane ADC or support. And just when I wanted to port home, in a secure (or so I thought) location, I got a bomb dropped on my head, with no way to evade it due to Flash on CD + oom/immobile champion/targeted mobility only.

CrossedOverKirby2 votes

I see what you mean.

Completely unrelated, but it is SO satisfying to kill someone with the ult. I remember fighting a full assassin team, and they were really far ahead because snowballing. Anyway, they were trying to take baron, and I scored a quadra and almost baron with my ult.

Gotta love dem squishies.

Michael C1372 votes

There are a ton of opportunities for max range kills with Ziggs ult. The trick really is to zone people out with it. Do they dare walk through the circle? Or Turn back and fight their pursuing enemies? Both may result in death, which do you choose?

Talamare3 votes

{quoted}

There are a ton of opportunities for max range kills with Ziggs ult. The trick really is to zone people out with it. Do they dare walk through the circle? Or Turn back and fight their pursuing enemies? Both may result in death, which do you choose?

For some unknown reason my brain decides that my best chance of survival and winning is for me to stand at the very center of Ziggs ult and THEN turn around to fight my pursuers

CrossedOverKirby1 votes

I feel the same way with other champions. Something in my brain subconsciously guides me to walk into Nidalee spears. Maybe it's like an 'Ooh, shiny thing.' I swear I've gotten myself killed a lot that way.

Michael C1372 votes

{quoted}

For some unknown reason my brain decides that my best chance of survival and winning is for me to stand at the very center of Ziggs ult and THEN turn around to fight my pursuers

HAHA I have had some down right boneheaded plays against Ziggs. It's actually what made me want to play him! I figured, I feel dumb right now, but I bet the Ziggs player feels like a boss. I want to be a boss!

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

I for one can't stand using it strictly for wave-clear. If there's a large wave on my turret along with a few enemy champions, then sure. But not just for the minions.

I like to either save it for when someone attempts to dive me, or lob it down the river to assist with fights at top and bot.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

use it to defend turrets, but dont use it just to get CS unless the wave is absolutely massive. its not worth the cooldown in a lot of edge cases anymore due to the nerf.

Talamare1 votes

Using it on a random distant enemy probably wont hit

but using it ahead of an enemy being chased by an ally usually will... or it won't but they will be forced to go around which is usually enough for the ally to kill

or at least burn a flash or something

Weasel Kensei1 votes

I use Ziggs a lot, I use him as support, mid, and top. Mostly support. People raise an eyebrow and are all like "Ziggs support, huh?" After they see me do it they like it.

So long range wave clear is a use sure, but my most common uses are:

Gankblast: I get gap closed, or dashed to by enemy X, I combo R, W, E, W, Q. This puts my ult in the air, drops my W for the disengage, gets E in place for slow, execute disengage with W, then while flying away shoot Q at them.

Instapush: So you push a wounded enemy to the safety of their turret, they start poking and farming under turret.... thats fine, but when I have a wave of fairly healthy minions and so does my opponent I instafarm all his minions, hurt my opponent, and push the turret. Even if they dodge I get turret damage from aa/minions. This is common on mid so i can keep my lane pushed, suffer no harass during that wave (all dead) and poke the tower. If you use this method every time your ult is ready mid will be under heavy pressure. This can be used in any lane, if you want to keep pressure on a tower by deleting a wave that engages your minions and zoning enemy defenders.

Vision: Ziggs ult gives vision. This can be used to check on the dragon, a buff, or for checking bushes. Its a long cooldown but no so long that this isnt a reasonable use in certain situations. Iv helped the team keep track of a fleeing enemy several times by ulting to keep track of an enemy in the jungle.

Baron/Dragon (buff) Smite: Its difficult to time, but if you have a dragon/Baron warded and see the enemy going for it, take a shot. This is even more important if your jungler is about to try to steal with smite, you both get a shot at winning it for your team. If a teamfight has broken out near one of the objective monsters, feel free to initiate this ult asap, do area damage to help out and possibly hedged some of the enemy further away from the objective.

Execution: This is harder than average to land ult. It has an area indicator, and a travel time rivaling Christmas. With some practice and proper use of the kit you can land it with less difficulty. So we start out with an enemy who has HP in the kill range of your combo, drop your W behind you and launch yourself to close the gap. Aim an auto attack at them, and shoot your E out just ahead of them or on top of them depending on if they were moving away form you. If you got them with the E they are slowed, IMMEDIATELY hit R just ahead of their fleeing direction, follow up with Q. Keep trying to auto attack just for good measure.

So that is a fair bit of the uses of my ult when I have Ziggs.

If you really want to land that ult.... pull out some combo kitty power and team up with Teemo, ult anyone who steps on a shroom... they really cant dodge a full powered slow. Also aim for Blitzcrank anytime he lands a hook. Singed, Amumu, and just about anyone eles with a good snare can help you pile full damage onto your enemy.

CrossedOverKirby1 votes

I've always wondered about Ziggs support. My friends would never go for it, though.

Your build probably be something like item 3092 item 3165 item 3174 item 3089 item 3023 item 3020 , correct? TS for utility, some CDR for harass... I don't know.

Weasel Kensei1 votes

{quoted}

I've always wondered about Ziggs support. My friends would never go for it, though.

Your build probably be something like item 3092 item 3165 item 3174 item 3089 item 3023 item 3020 , correct? TS for utility, some CDR for harass... I don't know.

It depends, in truth I try not to take kills if there is someone eles to around who can carry better with the kill gold, so I go for something like:

item 3151 item 3020 item 3135 item 3165 item 3174 and then an item depending on my needs: item 3116 item 3157

item 3007 item 3001 item 3089 item 3152 item 3100

You may notice that the first 5 items give full cooldown of 40% and that its heavy on penetration. This means I can poke the average marksman for around 500 (basically) true damage every 3 seconds or so at full build if they still have only 30 MR. This makes excellent setup for kills or turret siege. It is also enough to poke a tank and them feel the sting a bit also.

I generally start with the spellthief, but I sell it off as the last thing for my last item. This penetration helps me control my damage output and gives pretty decent results on damage.

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