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Aatrox: Riot heard you, guys

AceGeo·6/19/2018, 1:39:11 AM·35 votes·15,611 views

This is a copy pasta from Reav3 on Reddit from today at 12:30pm

Table of contents: -Base model looks like garbage / too light no detail -Aatrox wings / banners -Why change Aatrox v1 -Why change Aatrox v2

Reav3: "Hey guys, Been reading through all the feedback on the Aatrox VGU over the last week and I thought it would be good to pop in here and let you know of some art changes we will be making soon, plus give a little context behind some of the decisions on the rework. Base Model Art Changes: You should see some tweaks to the base model very soon on PBE. This will add a bit more detail to Aatrox and bring his colors a bit closer to previous Aatrox (Some darker reds will be added) Look out for these changes soon.

Aatrox's Wings: The 2nd change will take a bit longer and should be added sometime within a patch or two after Aatrox hits live. We have seen a lot of players asking for Aatrox to have his wings always out, as well as feedback over the loss of Aatrox's "Banner Wings." We are going to explore some options to address both of these concerns. Currently we are using Aatroxs full wings for gameplay clarity around when he is in his ultimate state, as it is very important for players playing with or against Aatrox to know when he is in his ultimate state and therefor will resurrect when killed. As such we won't be able to give him the full open wings when not in his ult since it will greatly reduce the clarity you get from a big silhouette change. With that being said we are exploring some options that would give him smaller "banner-esque" wings when not in ultimate form. We are still in early exploration on these though so they won't make it in time for his release, but we will be adding them sometime soon after.

As for all of the design feedback I will pass it over to RiotJag for some context into the design decisions we made on Aatrox: "So first off, the brutal truth: yes, his gameplay is dramatically different from current Aatrox, and yes, that's very intentional. We've said it a lot in the past - Aatrox's basic-attack centric drain tank play pattern does not offer enough tactical variance or counterplay. He's one of the most stat-checky fighters in the game, and when he's strong he doesn't offer a whole lot of options for opponents to fight against him. It’s very illustrative that in just a patch with no direct buffs, he moved from literally not being picked in a pro game for years to becoming arguably the highest priority top laner in the game. Aatrox is the epitome of a binary champion, and seeing him in competitive play has only reinforced the need to update his gameplay. I’ve reviewed the many suggestions I’ve seen by the community (a huge list was posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AatroxMains/comments/8qshgo/raatroxmains_upvote_this_if_you_agree_on/). There’s a few we’re thinking about heavily, and we’ve definitely had a lot of internal discussion about keeping his wings (that’s been a popular one). I’ve already made some of the changes the community asked for (increasing AS/lvl, for instance) and I’m considering some other ones; just keep in mind that we are changing his identity on purpose, and suggestions like “revert everything” aren’t adding a whole lot to the discussion. The second part is the feeling that we don't care about our community or how players feel about our roster. I understand why Aatrox mains feel this way, so let me be frank - even though we're trying to do our best for the entire League playerbase, we know that means that yes, we are changing something that you have grown to love and are attached to. But that's doesn’t mean we don’t care about what players want; in fact, it’s precisely what motivates us.

Live Aatrox has had some of the lowest play rates despite having a very healthy win rate for literally years. Players express their preferences to us every day - with their choices. And their choice across the board has been that they don't want to play Aatrox, despite that they definitely can win games with him. Of course if you're reading this, you're probably one of the few players who put in the time to understand Aatrox's playstyle and master something few others wanted to. The problem is we don't believe marginal shifts in Aatrox's kit would be enough to make him a healthy character who more players are excited to play. What we did know is that the idea of the badass Darkin conqueror could appeal to many players, and we didn't deliver on him - so we owed players more. Aatrox was always meant to be a battlefield terror, wielding his blade with ease, forcing opponents to flee like insects - a fighter so fearless that he could not even be stopped by death itself. This rework is meant to still be true to that fantasy, and I hope that current Aatrox mains could find something to grab onto there. But that knowledge won't make you feel any better about how drastically his gameplay is changing with this rework. Though I believe in our goals and that new Aatrox delivers on them, at the end of the day I honestly feel personally uncomfortable displacing you. I’m sorry for that." RiotJag Thank you for your passion for Aatrox and the time you've invested into him. Both me and RiotJag will be around for the next day or 2 to answer as many questions as we can. Thanks!"

56 Comments

Madsin256/19/2018, 2:47:50 AM15 votes

Who would have thought riot could answer urgent requests so fast.

Heres to another year of silence about all the damage and useless turrets.

Marshbouy6/19/2018, 2:23:45 AM12 votes

Sweet. I'm glad to hear that the community is making an impact.

Harden Stepback6/19/2018, 2:56:53 AM7 votes

I guess everyone is an aatrox main now

Epididymitis6/19/2018, 8:28:39 AM6 votes

I dislike the new voice, doesn't fit the title Darken

Off Meta Evan6/19/2018, 8:26:26 PM5 votes

I'm in the minority but i legitmately like his design as is perfectly fine. I agree with his point for aatrox being binary (tho personally I'd say champs like wukong, darius or garen are more binary.)

I think having his wings be an ultimate only thing was a good change. It drives the fantasy home that he truly is unleashing his full power. It makes more sense now that his wings don't look tattered too. His wings no longer look fucked up they look like they actually function properly so practically speaking it makes 0 sense for him to not just be flying everywhere if he just has them out looking as they do now.

JMoriartyDK6/19/2018, 1:54:17 PM5 votes

Still doesn't change the fact that they transformed Aatrox into another edgy, screaming asshole on his reworked voiceover.

TheDevice6/19/2018, 7:28:06 PM4 votes

I'm still not in favor of adding these "banner-esque" wing flaps on his perfectly fine compacted ones he currently has on pbe.

right now he looks tactical and solid. You give him flowy things on his back and he becomes less so.

Half the people complaining about his wings are not going to play him anymore anyway. Adding some AS to his kit isn't going to please the auto attack players either. Aatrox is too different now, his kit isn't auto attack based anymore and trying to add AS will just confuse his kit, making it overall less efficient and more of a hassle to balance. You guys know this. He can't be both. And this is all just to please players who are going to start picking one of the other nine or ten auto attack champs we have in the game already. Those champions will fulfill that playstyle far better than adding some AS to Aatrox' future melee caster kit.

Why not add some AS to Riven while we're at it? Or some AS to Garen's or Darius' kit to please the auto attack crowd as well?

This is a mistake. Please don't pull your punch Rito and just go through with it. The people who are angry about this rework won't settle for less than what he used to be.

NemeBro6/20/2018, 3:21:24 AM3 votes

Are people really fooled by Riot's evasive attempts at misdirection? At these garbage posts that don't actually address the problems with the Aatrox rework?

Only the most in denial players deny that Aatrox needed to change. The question we should be asking isn't "Why change Aatrox?", the answer to that question is so obvious and self-evident that it is easily-answerable, which is exactly why it is the strawman question Riot asked. Offer an easy answer to an easy question to placate and soothe the hearts of the unassuming masses. No, the question we should be asking Riot is,"Why change Aatrox from a duelist with solid damage who singles out one target to a supportive fighter who sets up his team with crowd control and does little single target damage?"

That's the question that needs to be answered, because I've played new Aatrox on the PBE. At full build at level 18 it took me several seconds to kill a level six Darius with a Doran's Shield. His damage is hilariously low, even during ult, making use of your E, and hitting the sweet spot of your Q. His sustain is of course worse now, since it is fully dependent on the damage you deal. This also makes him easily stonewalled by building armour. And of course, his damage is gated through keeping enemies at a distance, so any other fighter who closes the distance on him tears him to pieces. One must also question why his sole slightly target-agnostic damage, his passive, requires Aatrox to be in AA range, when his Q's damage requires the enemy to be held at a distance, with his sole gap closer being best-used for landing the sweet spot of his Q.

It doesn't matter that he's a caster instead of an auto attacker anymore, I couldn't give a single shit about that. What matters is that he is an entirely different champion with an entirely different function at the most basic level. Warwick was a similarly binary, incredibly stat-checky design, but when he was reworked the core of his gameplay was kept intact. Why wasn't Aatrox's? These questions are the ones that need to be answered by Riot, not this bullshit pat on the back condescending garbage.

Light of Madness6/20/2018, 5:20:49 AM2 votes

Old GP <3 I miss him

VvVVvV6/19/2018, 9:54:07 AM2 votes

{quoted}

Reav3: "he moved from literally not being picked in a pro game for years to becoming arguably the highest priority top laner in the game. "

"seeing him in competitive play has only reinforced the need to update his gameplay. "

So for the league population, how many are pro? Like %1 or less? Guess we definitely know how to tell when Riot will drastically change our champs. When pro players start using them.

nGio6/20/2018, 9:25:48 AM1 votes

one of the most stat-checky fighters in the game, and when he's strong he doesn't offer a whole lot of options for opponents to fight against him.

And? This can be said for anyone who takes Electrocute or gets a single kill early, and it's been going on since preseason. It's cool that they addressed Aatrox, but it's annoying as shit when Riot ignores 10 million threads about how stupid damage is, and then tells us about an opponent's options in League of One Shots or League of Always a Fucking Mud Stomp. The only new option you've given us is an earlier surrender.

Irelia What option do opponents have here, besides perma banning her? Rengar What option do I have if this turd gets a kill early?

I don't even hate the Aatrox changes, but don't give some bullshit about how he left opponents without options. Just say "because LC$".

lolipopevelynn6/19/2018, 2:51:32 PM1 votes

Players express their preferences to us every day - with their choices. And their choice across the board has been that they don't want to play Aatrox, despite that they definitely can win games with him

then what about champions like heimer and irvern who has very low play rates in his main intended role despite high winrates? Heimer especially is a pretty iconic champion in this game, yet no one wants to play him despite his rework except dedicated mains. why is that?

Xithek6/19/2018, 3:40:06 PM1 votes

Thank you guys for looking into it. The new Aatrox looks really cool, I just don't want him to end up feeling clunky.

Nøctμrne6/19/2018, 4:20:54 PM1 votes

So if they just said they didn't like basic attacking champions, when do we get our tryndamere and master yi reworks as they one shot an entire team and are unkillable at times.

Common Satyr6/19/2018, 6:25:30 PM1 votes

I have a few questions that I would really like to have answered. Look i honestly dont care about aatrox, I hate his kit (as in I have no interest), i think his current model (non-rework) is terrible. Now all that being said I dont understand at all why the design philosophy is to rework champions that are unpopular. Why does that matter at all? Just because a champion is unpopular does not seem like it should be removed from the game and the few players that do like them should be thrown aside.

Basically when your plan is to change a champion THIS much or like Galio (who I am actually sad about) why? The new champions are so different you could have just had both champions. If you felt you had failed on an anti magic gargoyle or badass darkin why not just make another rather then delete and old then make a new? I just dont understand. Maybe the only people who would be annoyed would be lore ppl but how hard is it to write in a brother or something.

If you could explain more as to why riot does it this way I would love to hear the answer. Not mad or anything (more like sad). Just something I'd really like to know.

Also there will always be unpopular champions, if you remove one then another will takes its place. there are 130ish champions to choose from, not every one can be prom king and queen.

TheGreatNinx6/19/2018, 10:08:28 PM1 votes

Here's the solution to that visual indicator. Buff to ult > Gain 25 more range on melee attacks And just make the sword design grow bigger and add like marks to the sword. That should make up for the lack of visual and not that massive of a buff to aatrox.

Meme God Shrek6/19/2018, 11:03:34 PM1 votes

Glad to see them making an effort to keep him more in line with his themes. I wish he had some way to buff his allies, but that's a minor complaint.

One thing I noticed though... they mentioned he was a "binary champion" where there isn't much counter-play to him when he's strong and he's useless when he's weak.

Isn't that the exact same as Master Yi? When he's meta he destroys you if he gets ahead and there's basically no counterplay (doesn't help he has 0 skillshots) and when he's behind or nerfed too much he's useless. Not to mention he sticks out like a sore thumb when it comes to his design and Ionia's themes.

Wild Geese6/20/2018, 2:53:17 AM1 votes

They aren't changing his gameplay though, which I think is really the big problem here. The way he looks and sounds is really fine, and the problems with that are mostly just adversion to change; though It's nice they are improving his looks a bit...

It's really ignoring the issues with his gameplay, they said they don't want him to move during Q, they don't want to give him more AD for R, they basically don't say anything about his gameplay... Which I think stinks, both for a rework or just for a champion in general, his gameplay is NOT fun, clunky, unoriginal, etc...