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Dear Riot, can you explain to me why we have "juggernaut" items in the game?

d3r3k·4/17/2017, 1:18:48 AM·2 votes·1,304 views

This is addressed to Riot and I hope that someone sees this and responds.

My question is: "Why are there items like steraks gage, black cleaver, and titanic hydra (just to name a few)?" My basis for this is the following points-

  1. "Juggernaut" (tanky) champions, in most cases, already do "% max hp" damage. The reasoning behind this introduction must have been "well, we want tanky champions to feel like they are doing damage and contributing in that department, too." Fair enough. But when you have those types of abilities combined with these items....you end up in situations where top laners can be EXTREMELY tanky while still out-damaging many carries. I feel that, personally, this takes away from the game. Tanks should serve as tanks and not be able to blind dive the backline and 100-0 them. Tanks should be the frontline and provide lockdown/zoning, but the enemy carries should almost never be saying "oo look this champion with BC can 100-0 me if I am not careful." I have been in too many games where a top laner that has BC just assassinates a carry who was even on levels and items. It doesn't make any sense.
  2. I have been playing for long enough to remember where these items came from....black market brawl. The entire basis for that game was to have "fantasy items" that gave you "one-stop-shops" for stats. Those got directly imported into SR and ever since this, I have seen countless re-works to BC and TH in particular and I am wondering why you don't just remove the items instead of trying to spend all day and night tinkering with it.

Please someone address this.

61 Comments

MissingKayo4/17/2017, 1:21:54 AM1 votes

They're not as tanky as tanks. They have usually no or very little CC. They are all extremely immobile and thus weak to kiting and CC. Lord Dominik's/Void Staff/Grievous Wounds ruins them.

It makes perfect sense. Most carries have either range (mages/ADCs), CC (mages), mobility (assassins), lifesteal (ADCs), massive burst (assassins/mages) or massive DPS (ADCs). You have no excuse to be in a juggernaut's range. Assassins shouldn't be targeting them in the first place unless they're low and almost dead anyways. Mages and ADCs should never ever be in the juggernaut's melee/short range.

Michael7024/17/2017, 1:28:23 AM1 votes

Black Cleaver is essential on Garen & Renekton and they don't do % max HP damage.

Critmaster Garen4/17/2017, 1:46:46 AM1 votes

why do adc get the strongest defenive stats in the game on their biggest offensive items? item 3046

why are they allowed to drain tank opponents with massive amounts of lifesteal off the damage they deal?

why do they get anti burst shields/mechanics on items item 3812 item 3072 and even second health bars (reworked item 3026) in case they fuck up, get caught out of position and bursted?

all this without a real tradeoff and still getting damage from those items?

youre asking why JUGGERNAUT items exist? to support juggernauts (a class of carries) who are actually designed around having these items, and large amounts of defense and damage at the same time due to their kit inherent counterplay.

now im asking you why adc get all that defense on their big damage items when theyre not balanced or designed around being burst resistant or supposed to be able to drain tank opponents in melee range.

Ralanr4/17/2017, 1:58:02 AM1 votes

I'm sorry, where are you getting Max% HP damage from juggernauts?

Only one I can think of who has it is DrMundo.

Frightning4/17/2017, 2:59:50 AM1 votes

Imagine that, a champion whose primary purpose for existing is getting to and killing squishy carries, if, left unpeeled, can get to and kill said carries? It's almost as if they actually have the tools and items required to do their job...at least for the first 25-30 mins or so of the game before the carry outscales them enough that they can just stand there and duel you...and win because lifesteal+DPS=gg in a duel, unless you have toxic levels of burst that can't be dodged (Syndra R).

Annoxis4/17/2017, 7:55:23 PM1 votes

Allow me to answer some of your points. They have items because you need to have item that work for your kind of champ if you want said types of champions to work properly in the game without having to be overtuned.

But when you have those types of abilities combined with these items....you end up in situations where top laners can be EXTREMELY tanky while still out-damaging many carries. I feel that, personally, this takes away from the game. Tanks should serve as tanks and not be able to blind dive the backline and 100-0 them.

So we are speaking about Juggernaut, right ? Thus excluding Divers from the argument, if I understand. Something is really clear to me : If, by any means, a Juggernaut comes to the contact of one of your carries, he deserves to kill it. I mean, your principal mean of defense as a carry is your range, which is inherently strong against the principal defense of Juggernauts, which is Tankyness. If you are in a 1 VS 1 situation, you deserve to die because a carry that can't escape a Juggernaut should never be alone ever. if it is in a Skirmish or Teamfight, and the Juggernaut kills you, you deserve to die too, because you and your team have sucked.

Also, I don't know why you brought Black Market Brawl at all, since the only that came into the game from that game mode was Deadman's Plate.