http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/29851-unofficial-pbe-patch-notes-for-10-10-2014-first
If this is serious, you have just lost a lot of people. Please weigh in.
EDIT: It would be nice to get a red post here to at least give SOME idea of the logic behind these changes. Because in my honest opinion, some team got smashed one night and thought of some of these changes and then made it happen in an intoxicated state.
wolfax7 votesSo massive changes that make the jungle a much more interesting place and allow a ton of customization make them lose a lot of people? You're the first truly negative response I've seen so far. The rest have been positive or at least interested to see how the changes play out. You are not a lot of people. You are one.
You could also, I dunno, at least explain why you are upset or feel they're trolling. You don't even tell what part you don't like since this is a pretty massive overhaul. Instead of throwing these worthless threads out to waste space post why you don't like them.
Dauthdaert1 votesWhile I don't dislike the changes, I feel like they should at least keep Feral Flare. It made alot of the less viable junglers better, and I don't think that the enchantments on the new items will match up with it. I earnestly hope that I'm wrong, because I like Warwick and Nocturne with Feral Flare, and I want them to remain relatively the same after Pre-Season. The more difficult jungle, I feel will also close the doors for the champions who already had problems clearing beforehand. It seems like they're picking on tanky junglers. I know that's not the case, it just seems that way.
wolfax2 votesMany of the tanky junglers are better at AoE clearing and that's something they said they want to help. They were talking how they wanted certain camps to be better for AoE clearing and others for single target clearing.
Also, Feral Flare is one of those weird items that promotes too much staying in the jungle. It basically punishes you for ever leaving because you need those stacks. There needs to be playstyles that allow you stay in the jungle for periods of time, but not bottleneck you into never leaving. A jungler after all has to help lanes at some point or other.
d3r3k1 votesI have a feeling I am not the only one :) As you can see from this post already...
Also, people probably don't know about them yet because they don't go searching external sites for them. I would be willing to bet that when they reach actual patch notes (which I dread that day from EVER coming), people will freak out.
Siachi6 votesWell, it'd be nice if you explained WHY you don't like the changes, besides "There's a lot of them".
That being said, I don't think I like Dragon not giving global gold; even reduced gold to live I'd be fine with, but none at all makes it seem like less of a team objective...
wolfax4 votesIt gives a pretty good buff though. You're replacing global gold with a ramping up global buff. It also gets harder as you kill it more often making it more important to have more people there. If the global buff ends up good enough I could see dragon becoming very important. They're also putting in the extra camp to help alleviate some of the gold loss.
All in all there's a lot of changes and I'm sure that most of them aren't final. I'm interested to see what the changes actually look like since there's just no way of telling looking solely at them written out.
d3r3k1 votessee below. i responded with a two part response
Centuros4 votesWHY do you not like it? Give some constructive criticism at least!
I like the Smite changes; now you will be able to legitimately chew out those Warwicks or whatever who refuse to take smite because they "don't need it." I dislike removal of SoTAG, though, that one was finally getting somewhere nice...
If they are going to make regen based off of your base amount, there needs to be a better way to tell if you have a high or low base amount, and champions who build hp (tanks, mundo) had better get higher hp regen bases.
Galaxy Gnar4 votesWell, there are a few things that I am concerned about:
The bonus move speed and resistance while inside your own base makes it easier for players to defend yes, but why do such a thing when a team has been able to push and win fights due to skill or whatever reason? It feels like its punishing the winning team a little bit by making it harder to actually push to win.
The changes to dragon seem a bit odd, by giving players a global buff rather than the gold, and then increasing the difficulty. I would prefer they leave it the same (my opinion)
I don't know how I feel about these river "Power Ups". I will have to try it out.
I'm not really sure how I feel about these changes, but I have a feeling that it just ins't going to feel like League of Legends anymore if this rolls out
Project Jínx4 votesI for one think these changes are a joke, games like LOL already have a massive barrier to entry by the incredible amount of information there is. i don't jungle because it is just beyond me how much strategy there already is. Adding a thousand more camps and switches and levers, only mkaes it more and more difficult to try and figure out waht you should be doing. The jungle really seems like its going to become a place of if you dont main it dont bother even trying.
I'm also heavily against the many defensive changes they are making. They seem to want games to drag on for 60+ minutes. Reducing the power of baron, increasing turret power, and making you safer in base, combined with the stat changes are all just a huge eff you to early game and midgame power. If you really want to make every game one that comes down to a 60 minute teamfight then why even bother having midgame champs...all these changes directly lengthen games and indirectly hurt early-midgame champs.
Also for that matter most of these changes just seem silly. Hey let me run top real quick to get a power up! It just sounds silly and for that matter unneccessary. THere is already reason to visit those lanes, to get waves pushing in your favor, you are literally just adding one more checklist thing to do. Grab blue red powerup b4 going to siege.
Just so many things all of which seem unneccessary and adding way way more complexity to the game that is unneeded. LOL is already an interesting strategic game, you dont need a milllion more miniature strats and buffs to keep the game interesting.
I for one think these changes fundamentally change the game and for that matter that I am very unfond of. Of course I am going to see how things pan out, but given how bad the balance team is at implementing things like 3 items (aka gld gen items) I have little faith for them rebalancing the entire game
wolfax3 votesThe changes are actually to make the jungle a more interesting place. Right now it's very bland with set paths and set ganking routines. Junglers are also bottlenecked into junglers that can push lanes like crazy. They have been asking for a boost to other types of junglers for a long time now.
There are also changes that hurt split pushing which honestly needed to be knocked down a bit. I don't remember the last game I had that didn't have a champion who spent the majority of time split pushing instead of team fighting. The fact that it's the dominant strategy means it needs to be toned down some.
Project Jínx1 votesYou keep going on and on about split push being overly done, but Riot said in this thread they want to encourage split pushing more as a strat
"We would like to see split pushing more though, albeit in a way that feels more sane to deal with for both teams."
Dax Ayrton1 votesI think I agree. While I do jungle, I'm picturing in my head how will I explain these changes to someone, and how will I teach them how to jungle. I think it's going to be a lot more complicated...
d3r3k3 votes@Wolfax so you can shutup about my vague comments. I will list my likes and dislikes towards each change.
Fountain regen change: positive. I like this. While this will diminish the utility of homeguards, I did feel like without them, I would be sitting at fountain forever trying to heal.
Champ base stats and per level stats increase: like wtf. Is this WoW now? The game won't start until level 6? This is dumb. Why make this change? Are we eventually going to see champions start with 4000 health and 200 AP? This is going down the wrong path, in my opinion.
Bounty changes: I like this. It rewards strategic/smart fighting and team kills.
Death timers: no issue here.
Towers: again. wtf. I read these changes and it seems like Riot is just dicking around with proposed changes. I really hope these don't go in. They took something that was perfectly fine and now they are putting "magic effects" in a video game meant for a 6 year old on it. I do, however, like the IDEA of giving the INHIBITOR towers some extra strength. Leave the rest alone. The games are already going to be turtled out in a stupidly easy way with the rest of the champ changes/ jungle camp changes/ global "gold" situation.
minion changes: neutral. last hitting will take getting used to but I think scaling minions is a decent idea.
"Homefield advantage": this is just dumb. teams inside of their base will already have stronger towers and are closer to the fountain. If they lose towers because they are behind- so be it. This is just ANOTHER way Riot is trying to turtle out games and stall. Meaningless change
Inhibitor respawn: I am a fan of this. Not because of how it currently is. I tihnk the way things are are fine now. But with all of the other proposed changes, they had better do something here. I mean, you'll bust your ass for an hour trying to just break into a team's damned base so you better see some benefits from it.
Blue/Red buff changes: blue....eh ok. Red- again....wtf. The concept is interesting but totally stupid. Yes, blue buff was there to give to your waveclearing champs to siege towers- THAT'S THE STRATEGY. ADC's (usually the ones holding red) don't need ANY extra help taking towers because they already do an F-ton of DPS to them. This is another headscratcher.
Still waters: is this a joke? This is yet another change which will make League of Legends look like a kiddy game. Yes, it is incentive to visit lanes...but there already is- wave management. This is just a way to get free vision without purchasing wards. Just this notion of a "powerup" makes me sick. Every high school and underclass project in college making a game involves "powerups"- give it a rest.
Elixirs: I am a fan of these changes.
New baron: Neutral here. I don't see a problem with these changes. Will make for a new interesting mechanic.
New Dragon: Interested in these changes. This will make Dragon a priority over Baron now later in the game. Teams will (or should) be prioritizing this over EVERYTHING ELSE in the game. These combat stats it offers are very significant. Not saying it is bad- but whether the side-effects produced here are positive either will remain to be seen.
Health/Mana regen: ok cool.
New items: some of them are cool.....but wtf on some of them. I see what Riot is TRYING to do with them, but no (Zrot's Gate, Rioghteous Glory). These items are introducing TOO much mechanics into the game. This is becoming more and more like DotA or Wow with all of the unique actives. The simple, direct way is the way to go in my opinion. That's what made LoL, LoL. If you want these types of items- go play another game.
New Jungle: ...where to begin? Scuttle Crab. OK- not a huge difference. I don't really like it though because it is just SOMETHING ELSE on the map which reminds me of WoW (PvE type enrivonment). Smite kills- this is a cool idea. I would be interested in seeing this out. It reminds me of the change to Nunu's Q on jungle camps.
(char limit reached- TBC)
d3r3k2 votesIt is a lot of unnecessary changes to an UNBROKEN game. It is fine- so don't "fix" it.
wolfax3 votesJunglers right now would probably disagree. There's not a lot of options besides the junglers that gank really well. Junglers have been asking for jungle overhaul for a long time now so they can do something besides being yelled at to gank every lane 24/77.
Also, if you haven't noticed split pushing has become one of the premiere strategies. They are looking for ways to curb that some to allow a broader variety of strats to be possible.
Project Jínx2 votesSplit pushing is a strategy it is not the premiere strategy. Maoki meandering down top lane is not split pushing its just a little extra power before he teles to a teamfight he is meant for. Real split pushers like tryn, nid, shaco, and jax see very little play anymore. ALso the old split push strats involving shen and tf no longer see play, so I wouldnt say they are trying to curb that.
Also only in lcs is there no jungle diversity, you can play almost anything currently. the only poor strat in the jungle right now is counterjungling/power farming and that's because camps don't matter as much since the spirit items were introduced
JustMyBassCannon2 votesElixir of Ruin Grant Health, % Tower Damage, nearby minions gain % Tower Damage and have movement speed equal to 90% of yours, up to 500
My first thought was Rammus bulldozing towers, because that's what would happen (and it's fucking awesome)
I'm looking at these changes and...I really can't see what's wrong with them--
Atma's Impaler was removed? FINALLY! Fucking FINALLY!
Raptamei2 votesIt's funny how they just ripped river runes from Dota.
d3r3k1 votesI feel like they're trying to make this game a lot more like WoW or DotA....
AbyssionKnight2 votesI've played with these changes on PBE and while that's an environment with swingy games, the changes don't feel bad, or make the game feel alien.
The 'death turrets', as casters love to call the inner turrets, are a tiny bit easier to hold. Dragon change is nice imo. The buffs help, without being overwhelming, though if you're able to get 5 dragons they become pretty nice and make you feel good for basically controlling the dragon.
Crab seems pretty pointless. He just runs around and you feel silly chasing him. Can be nice though if you take it right before baron or dragon for the free vision.
The buff in the river is nice, but nothing game breaking. It's mainly there for split pushers honestly.
Baron Buff is not really weaker. You lose the regen, but your minions become a lot scarier. It's kind of fun 'protecting' your super canon minion, as he slowly wittles away the enemy inhib turrets from outside its range. It also feels good if you're losing to get baron and then have stronger minions helping you push out the super minions / lanes in general.
Haven't played in the jungle personally, but from what i've seen they don't seem to have broken the jungle.
Still haven't seen anyone build the new items yet, so can't comment on those.
Boosted base stats also aren't that big of a deal. It's basically compensating for the changes to regen on items. I could still go oom and I wouldn't regain health at crazy speeds. It seemed fine to me.
Most of what you're saying reminds me a lot of what we hear every season. Last season people freaked out about vision changes and adding new jungle camps, and while it made some big changes, it wasn't game breaking by any means. So far these changes (which Riot has said are very experimental) don't seem that bad. No point freaking out before they even iron out the details.
d3r3k1 votes3 gold items for supports, trinkets, and a wright buff are nowhere near the level of changes they are proposing here
d3r3k1 votesIf you read the entire article and think of any side-effects and repercussions, you will understand why. I feel like it is pretty self-explanatory.
wolfax5 votesNo, it's not self explanatory. Explain your points instead of giving cryptic answers saying the balance team is worthless when you haven't even seen the changes on the PBE yet.
Yes, there will be side effects. There are side effects to any change. They're not going through these expecting nothing to pop up. They will fix anything that pops up and these are far from the final changes that will probably ship. The PBE is a testing ground and these things aren't coming out next week or anything. There's going to be a lot of testing and tweaking.
d3r3k1 votessee my two part response. I made it just for you :)
d3r3k1 votesNew jungle: the new jungle items are really.....not needed. SMITING ENEMIES? RLY? QUICK SMITE? CHALLENGING SMITE? Riot is taking a summoner spell and making it viable for everyone- interesting in THEORY but STUPID in practice.
Champion changes- did not read those through- not as interested
New item build changes- see point 17.
IN SUMMARY: too many changes at once- too many unnecessary changes at that. Riot is taking a game which we all loved for its elements, and slowly transforming it into a game we no longer recognize. This, in my opinion, is why I said many people will leave the game (including more than likely myself and friends) if these changes all go live.
Feel free to chime in now.
d3r3k1 votesAlso- Riot said "counter jungling will now be harder"...FALSE. Since it is harder to take camps, a good jungler can just sit in your jungle and wait for you to take one of your own camps and almost be dead and then just finish you off. And assuming that both junglers "play nice", level 1/2/3 cheesers like fizz/riven now have almost an unstoppable advantage in lane where they can zone you.
Also, a friend has brought to my attention the point of the river monster now just being clutter. They could potentially eat up an ESSENTIAL initiate / disengage spell meant to start or escape a teamfight and screw you over.
2pudge1cup1 votesThey changes seem like a lot of band aid stuff. The issue with the jungle isn't smite or what camps are where. The problem is that the map has too many choke points so that all gank paths can be seen with a couple of wards.
The items themselves are unnecessary. Riot needs to buff existing craptastic items rather than worry about adding newer stuff.
That being said, I'm interested how this will work out. I want to be optimistic, but riot's first reveal in S3 and S4 looked really promising only to fall flat. Unfortunately, I'm a slave to reality.
2pudge1cup1 votesI just want to add it feels like riot is over-doing deemphasizing split pushing. Yes, it can be annoying and not the funnest thing to watch, but it should be an open tactic if you are behind. I worry that this shift will just lead to a new optimal playstyle rather than expanding the field to open the game up to other playstyles.
ftftfftftftf1 votesI don't like the dragon change.. I'd rather have less gold than a stacking buff honestly. Just doesn't feel right in 5's. Wouldn't it put teams who get dragon more than once WAYYY ahead? Like so far ahead you can't even make a comeback? r10t plz