Luden's Echo

Repo·Apr 26, 2015·2 votes·985 views

I honestly feel that Luden's Echo is a bit too strong. The AP ratio on it is a killer to an entire team late game the only real way to counter it is say a Banshees. While One person can dodge say, a Lux ult, but say it hits the tank and the bounces to the person that dodged it, say an ADC, and they get chunked down to half health before a fight really began. I think it applies way too much AP poke especially with champs that can poke for a range or like Leblanc that can jump in and jump out. I honestly feel the DFG was a bit better.

12 Comments

LarasoApr 26, 20151 votes

It has a 15% scaling AP ratio

It's literally only 85 more damage than a item 3115

RepoApr 26, 20151 votes

Yes, But that only hits one person at a time, unless you have hurricane. And requires you to be in auto range. Luden's does not. And it has more damage than item 3115 So honestly I feel that just compliments my point.

LarasoApr 26, 20152 votes

The passive on item 3115 also procs a bajillion more times than item 3285 . When is the last time you saw a passive chunk somebody for half their health? The answer is never, and the way you portray in your post you'd think it has as big of a ratio as item 3100 , which CAN and DOES chunk people for absurd amounts of damage.

With 1000 AP, item 3285 does 250 damage. Even if you had ZERO MR, a item 3072 shield would literally absorb the entire thing and still have some shield health left, so don't tell me that is chunking ADCs for half their HP.

j jApr 26, 20151 votes

You siege with echo you don't siege with nashor's tooth. That is the problem and you clearly are missing the point.

LarasoApr 26, 20151 votes

Did you not read anything that was written? He's saying that the passive does too much damage, that it chunks ADCs for half their HP. My response was a sound argument.

j jApr 26, 20151 votes

I understand his exaggeration but the whole design of echo is broken. It promotes unhealthy siege compositions with no draw backs. It even gives move speed to further help the user get into range to poke, kite etc. (many uses here), which for the item is logical but also from a balance perspective is absurdly broken because nearly any champion who would utilize echo wouldn't need to get much closer to get their abilities off. (Ziggs, xerath being the most annoying).

Not only that but statikk has at least positioning concerns for the user where as echo you can blindly shoot abilities and have it trigger. WHAT? That's just stupid. Zero counter play besides dodging abilities that most champions have come up within the 2-8 second range granted they could also use another ability to proc it. It's ridiculous and in aram it's even more retarded. An argument saying get good and dodge abilities is invalid. If you dodge an ability you're fine but there is typically 4 more people nearby as well as minions or champion summons (heimer turret, zyra plants) that could also help it trigger.

I also don't understand why we traded a burst item to then turn every AP champion into an average to insane sieger. What in the world lol? Anyways, I understood what you were saying regarding nashor's and such but echo has pretty consistent aoe damage while it may seem low it certainly adds up. It has made many unconventional ap champions better WHICH I promote and like that concept but also note it already made strong ap's much stronger. We'll see how it goes but nothing is more annoying than echo for me personally. I think it's completely broken, no draw backs. You can say it lacks defense but most champions using the item don't need much defense due to their ability to siege and even with the increased MS will have an easier time not needing the defense. It's too good.

Luner HunterApr 26, 20151 votes

QQ lets remove statikk shiv while we're at it NOT to mention IE... cuz youknow that has a 250% scaling on AAs when they crit

j jApr 26, 20151 votes

Except to utilize I.E / Statikk shiv you're actually compromising your positioning. Get a brain son.

Luner HunterApr 28, 20151 votes

except to use echo you have to compromise your positioning too! :O cuz you know you actually have to be in range to use your ability SAME as being in range to AA. SOME adcs have longer AA ranges than some mage's abilities! it's the bias of the ADC mains that dont think mages should get equivalent items that has everyone hating echo but QQ moar

j jApr 28, 20151 votes

You're honestly an idiot if you believe echo compromises positioning. Lol.

j jApr 26, 20151 votes

I honestly don't understand why we removed dfg for echo and instead of replacing dfg with another item that put emphasis on burst we got an item that just promotes a siege item. Honestly to begin with I don't even understand why they removed DFG instead of nerfing hourglass. Hourglass is the complete problem with assassins with mobility and high damage. It offered too much saftey. Although touching hourglass is difficult because certain champions rely heavily on it but assassins are clearly too strong with it. Echo makes aram a living hell XD. I'll never understand riots point of view because it does not make sense.

The problem I have with echo is really zero counter play when you're being sieged it's absolutely ridiculous. DFGS active should have just been changed to a skill shot or a delayed shot in X by X area to promote skillful play with it. Thus making it a true risky purchase. What would have been so difficult about this? Echo is a skilless mindless item. Now the ad version I don't mind because those characters actually have to be CLOSE to utilize it typically. Where as echo you just mindless spam abilities hoping to trigger it on multiple enemies. WHICH will happen because you're sieging? DUH? The hell was riot thinking. Absolutely stupid.

DrCyanideApr 26, 20151 votes

With DFG, there were champions that didn't want the item. A long range mage like Xerath doesn't benefit from having a short range active.

With Luden's Echo, it's hard to think if a champion that doesn't benefit from it. A lack of mobility is a common weakness in the mage roster, which Echo helps offset. The additional burst is great on every mage as well.

I'm almost wondering if Luden's is doing so well because it's almost like a critical hit, but on a spell and without the random component.