Kallista

Lashrath·Jan 31, 2015·8 votes·2,911 views

For those of you who havea PBE account - I wrote a piece about Kalista with a poll on the PBE forums I would appreciate if you read it and put on a vote or discussed it. The point is I would liekto see her black spear turned into an item that teh TARGET decides whether he wants to pick up or not. This week - with the free rotation - became a trollfest on the non-SR maps - the change I propose would allow Kalista to be played just as it is now BUT the target would have a word in whether he wants to be oathsworn or not. (which is how kalista' should work based on her lore too) Anyway thanks for your help/assistance.

This is NOt a ragepost nor a call for buff or nerf - just a gameplay change to make things fair.

35 Comments

WheatloafJan 31, 20158 votes

I'm still really not clear on why it isn't a choice. When she was being released, Riot made it sound like it was supposed to be...

RozzetaFeb 1, 20151 votes

It was even mentioned to be a choice in the spotlight, I'm pretty sure it is a bug that they can/won't address at this point.

SpongebobIsLifeJan 31, 20152 votes

Well the problem with allowing this, is that it allows Kalista to get trolled as well. If no one decides to bond with her, she ultimately loses 2 abilities to her kit.

MetalrichdogJan 31, 20151 votes

Good fight, Kalista. Next time, at least ask your teammates if they'd be willing to bond with you in the pre-game chat.......... Heck, not everybody wants to be thrown at the enemy and lose control at any moment when she has her ult up.

LashrathJan 31, 20151 votes

Exactly but my question is who deserves this choice? If you ask in lobby: "If I take kalista will anyone bond with me" - and everyone says no - then you can still pick a different champion - ATM you can just force it on someone which hurts team moral at the first 30 seconds. I strongly resent the idea that another decides what I "want" to do. And I DO want to be able to refuse a Kalista's spear especially if he proved himself bad in previous games.

Also my question - who should shoulder the risk of being trolled? A Kalista who decides to play the champion or the other 4 players who can be taken hostage against their will? I do believe that it should be the Kalista.

Presently I was bonded as a Jace (obviously against my will) and flung into the enemy team in cannon form.. you say that it is fair I couldn't say a big NO for this stupidity because "poor Kalista would lose spells from her kit"?

SpongebobIsLifeJan 31, 20152 votes

you didn't have to go into the team. You could have chose a different direction. And neither side will win this argument due to the fact that trolling can exist on both sides.

LashrathFeb 1, 20152 votes

If there are minions around you will stop at the first one. If you are 1 autoattack away from killing someone and she pulls you out because it is "haha so funny2 it doesn't matter which direction you dash anymore... This is not a solution. If Kalista gets trolled it was her choice of champion that caused it - forcing the trolling on another is a different situation. Why should her play preference be stronger than anyone else's on the team?

SpongebobIsLifeFeb 1, 20152 votes

bc shes a different champion.

LashrathFeb 1, 20151 votes

No that is a plain bad argument. If you pick - you pick your own playstyle. Not another player's. Simple as that. It is not a "I picked Kalista so I can pick things for all teh rest of you"...

SpongebobIsLifeFeb 1, 20152 votes

oh, I misread what you were saying, and maybe this person is better at Kalista than any other adcs. Or maybe she is on a streak with kalista. The thing is, is that a good team builds around its teammates, the same principle is applied when someone picks Kalista. You play to win, so you have to kind of play around her. Now im not saying, it's okay for her to troll or anything, just keep in mind that she is a different champion that requires a unique playstyle from the player and the player's teammates.

LashrathFeb 1, 20151 votes

Which wouldnt be taken away from her with my proposal - you see if noone wants to take the spear and still the player picks Kallista then slaves someone is no different from last picking a second mid and saying mid - then expecting everyone to accomodate your wish. A good team will - but grudgingly. and with one stroke many picks become suboptimal. Same goes with enforcing this on someone. starting the game with a grudge is not very healthy. If the offer happened in the lobby and the game started with a voluntarily accepted oath (from the support who has no reason to deny it) noone would get hurt only the possibility of trolling ceased. Also in other game modes everyone might deny the spear but ten again Kallista is terrible in those game modes so she already is a trollpick it makes sense that other players wouldnt want to go with it willingly and sacrifice control to an obvious troll.

SpongebobIsLifeFeb 1, 20151 votes

regardless of what you think, Kalista is in a very good spot right now. There are other champions that could easily abuse their abilities for trolling, but why don't you talk about them? Anivia Alistar Vayne Singed . Get used to the fact that the game is evolving. Every champ comes with pros and cons.

LashrathFeb 2, 20151 votes

any champion can troll but atm only Kalista can make you troll in a sense - this is not part of the evolution it is actually unintended on PBE Kalista was added with the spear as an object that can be picked and changed it later because people didnt see it or didn1t want to pick it up. So quite honestly it isn't a fun ability what meets such oppositon. Why not make a champion that can attack teammates and call it evolution then?

SpongebobIsLifeFeb 2, 20151 votes

and who knows there might actually a be a champ that can possibly hurt it's own teammates. Im pretty sure other mobas have champs like that. I know dota does. You've just gotta face the fact that there will always be people who will troll and move on.

LashrathFeb 2, 20151 votes

Why should I when it is so easy to fix?I don't want her ult to be changed or anything I actually like her theme. I even like her ult - but it is good for nothing else but trolling on some maps where it would make sense to deny it. No Support will say no but other roles should be able to.

SiytherJan 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Spongebob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Ey1Tlrv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-01-31T16:15:56.321+0000)

Well the problem with allowing this, is that it allows Kalista to get trolled as well. If no one decides to bond with her, she ultimately loses 2 abilities to her kit.

exactly why it cant be a choice some butthead would be like nope not happening then u have the most useless adc ever no ulti and half her dps gone while i agree that her ulti does exert too much control over ur laning partner it can also be used to save them the most annoying thing i have ever played against was thresh/kalista thresh would engage and when we nearly killed him here comes the kalista ulti cant ever kill thresh lol. I think that kalista ulti should be changed to where she throws herself instead of partner then no one would care if ur were bonded to them and it would solve alot of the problems with her control over others

LashrathJan 31, 20152 votes

Quite honestly a support has little to no reason to not accept the contract but the present mechanics gives too much control and chance for trolling. Yes Kalista would need some trust that your support willpick up the spear but how is the present situation better? Forcing someone to take it will even make somepeople ragequit (happened this week) or avoid Kalista all game never participating anything closer than 2k units from Kalista( also happened his week) or raging and promising reports against teh bad kalista after it messed up fights (also happened this week) - it is hard enough to get peopel work together as it is - I really don't need this tho makes things worse by a design flaw.

by now whenever I see a Kalista picked my first thought is "not this shit again.." and exactly that1s what usually follows - animosity and trolling. this is unacceptable. A LOT more unacceptable than someone picking a champion against teh whole team's will and o boohoo noone picked the spear just as they said they would not...

If a player picks Kalisa even when he is told noone will pick teh spear would deserve being useless. Why do decent players deserve it more to be trolled by a random adc's whim?

flibitydooJan 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Spongebob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Ey1Tlrv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-01-31T16:15:56.321+0000)

Well the problem with allowing this, is that it allows Kalista to get trolled as well. If no one decides to bond with her, she ultimately loses 2 abilities to her kit.

But then why even give the illusion of choice to the player Kalista chooses to spear?

Why stun them for 3-5 seconds? Why make it look like the player has a choice to not spear?

Why not just have Kalista use the blackspear on a champion and immediately bond?

RaptameiFeb 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Spongebob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Ey1Tlrv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-01-31T16:15:56.321+0000)

Well the problem with allowing this, is that it allows Kalista to get trolled as well. If no one decides to bond with her, she ultimately loses 2 abilities to her kit.

Then she shouldn't pick Kalista.

Tentacle LoveJan 31, 20152 votes

It's kinda odd that they mentioned over and over that Kalista is supposed to require the consent of the other person when previewing her and revealing her.

And I can't recall Riot personnel ever acknowledging that Kalista can deny the other player the opportunity to choose whether to become her oathsworn.

Players who AREN'T trolling can go buy a new black spear and correct a mistake, but players who ARE trolling can go buy a new spear, intentionally CC their own teammates over and over and make life hell for them.

I personally haven't run into problems with it myself. The worst I've seen Kalista do was go afk and force me to lane solo against 2 as Nautilus support. But I'm not 30 yet and don't plan on trying ranked until I have all the runes and masteries unlocked.

mSUWFvJB3DJan 31, 20151 votes

Yes exactly this kinda seems like a bug - they advertised this champion as if the Spear was a choice but it isn't. I don't want to see her nerfed or buffed but when I am a toplaner or a mid I don't want to be randomly trolled because the given player thinks it is a good idea to soulbind me against my wil. I want to have a word in the decision that's all.

Leaf of the lakeJan 31, 20153 votes

Players who AREN'T trolling can go buy a new black spear and correct a mistake, but players who ARE trolling can go buy a new spear, intentionally CC their own teammates over and over and make life hell for them.

Then report them after game? This is no different from anivia or jarvan trolling their own team.

Tentacle LoveJan 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf of the lake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Ey1Tlrv,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-01-31T18:41:52.965+0000)

Then report them after game? This is no different from anivia or jarvan trolling their own team.

Yeah, that's my opinion as well. It's weird though, that it's counter to her design, obviously unintended, and we haven't heard back from them.

LashrathFeb 1, 20152 votes

And what will that cause? Nothing. Have you ever heard of anyone getting a ban for playing bad? He will just say O I ulted at the wrong time... Also by then you lost 30-40 minutes - making it a choice is teh easier and safer solution here.

Leaf of the lakeFeb 1, 20152 votes

There is a report option called "assisting enemy team."

LashrathFeb 1, 20152 votes

I know but considering that tribunal has been down for ages people tend to get nothing for even serious offenses (just think of how the bots flooded all AI game modes ever since there is no tribunal whatsoever) so I see little hope of getting rid of these people who can just pass themselves as bad players (omg i didnt know how to play kalisa boohoo)

Leaf of the lakeJan 31, 20152 votes

Do you know why they made it not an option? Because no one fucking noticed the spear. Kalista kept going into games on PBE without an oathsworn, and having to bind in lane because people would ignore her spear when she tried to bind them. It ended up being a worse experience for everyone than the way it is currently. The 15s gate at fountain is a godsend for kalista, allowing her to instantly bind her support without any worry of getting ambushed by the enemy team. Unfortunately, at the start of games, people often aren't paying attention to the other champions yet. I've had countless supports say "you binded me already?" Every single one of those times, it would've been "rejected" simply because the support wasn't paying attention; if the oathsworn had to accept, it would ruin games for both of them, a lot more than the current system does. If you did let a player reject the pact, it would have to be opt-out, rather than opt-in, and even then it would have to make intuitive sense and be something you couldn't do by accident.

MahautsukaiJan 31, 20153 votes

What if it was a pop up on UI instead of a pick-up item they need to notice?

Ryu the firstFeb 1, 20151 votes

this. So much this

LashrathFeb 1, 20151 votes

I can absolutely agree with the popup option too. I don't mind what the solution is but it should be a choice as it was advertised. make a huge effect for it or I don't care forcing another into soulbind is the worst possible solution they could have imagine.

Quite honestly this whole death animation business is obsolete - the contract could be the part of the lobby choice just as you offer champion trades you could offer the soulbind to another - it didn1t even need extra programming just an extra icon with the function of starting the game with the target as a willing soulbound.

InquizelusFeb 1, 20151 votes

Kalista is spelled with only one "L" you dumb prick.

LashrathFeb 1, 20151 votes

O Nooo a typo in the title! You must have had terrible difficulties understanding which champion we are talking about! I am so sorry I burdened your intelligence with such an insolvable problem. Terrible... terrible indeed.

OleandervineFeb 1, 20151 votes

Kalista's Ult and her oathsworn stuff needs reworking so as not to castrate her and your team when you pick her. Her ult needs another non-friendly dependent ability.

LashrathFeb 1, 20151 votes

I dont mind if the mechanics remain the same it is a weird novelty but I disagree that it can be enforced on an unwilling target. A well timed ult fromher is an awesome teamfight changer but as it is now it just offers too much to trolls - and this could be fixed very easily with a pickable object or a lobby offer.

OleandervineFeb 1, 20151 votes

Her ult may be a game changer, but unless she's played in meta with organized parties, she's going to be a "troll" almost all the time due to the lack of easy communication during fights in the game. You don't have time to type out commands to your oathsworn, and you can't feasibly have voice chat with everyone in random matchups. She's just not easy to play cooperatively in any mode that isn't ranked if you're alone. For this reasoning, her ult needs rework. It's too codependent and this cripples her if the team is uncooperative. The passive on Sentry is OK because it doesn't actively change her kit that much, it just adds slight power which isn't missed too much if her oathsworn isn't engaging. However, the ult requiring a specific ally to know when and how to do things when you snatch them up so jarringly is problematic if they either botch the ult or don't cooperate. She needs something that is decent by itself, but stellar when her oathsworn can participate. Maybe something like Lissandra's Q; Kalista pitches a large spear that does things. Then, if it passes through her oathsworn, it splinters and flies farther. Something like that would be fun and encourage participation from your ally but not completely neuter Kalista without that ally around.