Please, I beg, stop allowing new champions in ranked.

Turtles Are Okay·Jun 13, 2019·55 votes·14,428 views

It's insane how you're forced to dodge because someone has absolutely, zero, no respect for your time as well as his and wants to troll pick a champion that he's never played before in ranked.

This is insanity. Please.

Edit: I meant experience. Don't allow people who don't have at least a few games to play a champion in ranked. Though I know that this creates way bigger issues with "ok, so, how do new players play ranked?", "will you have to have 10 games on each champion just to be able to play it in ranked?", "how does swapping work?", I just wanted the team at Riot to be made aware of the issue at hand.

I am not sure what the perfect solution would be.

115 Comments

SolarisCorvusJun 13, 201915 votes

Well technically its not trolling. The guy playing morde might have no idea or might have played him om the pbe, you never know. Riot’s reasoning for allowing new champs in ranked is that they dont want players that only play ranked to wait even more in order to play their champ and it doesnt really do much to help first picking because some guy could easily play yasuo for the first time and have no idea what he’s doing.

The KombinatorJun 13, 20195 votes

Maybe play a few norm then? Or allow to link accounts so they share this kind of data?

radetariJun 13, 20194 votes

that stuff is done in overwatch and i see noone complaining they disable heroes in competitive mode for considerable amount of time

ThingamajigJun 13, 20197 votes

your definition of trolling is doubfounding

Turtles Are OkayJun 13, 201917 votes

{quoted}

your definition of trolling is doubfounding

If you go into a situation where your intent is to hurt and don't care about others, that's usually a sign of trolling.

ThingamajigJun 13, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Turtles Are Okay,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T08:55:45.447+0000)

If you go into a situation where your intent is to hurt and don't care about others, that's usually a sign of trolling.

and you think just because they picked a champion they are intending to hurt and don't care?

The KombinatorJun 13, 201915 votes

They pick a champion with near 0 experience on RANKED where nearly everyones' primary objective is winning. Yes doing that is intentional, and hurt others, and since they doing it i can't belive, that they care.

ThingamajigJun 13, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T10:40:57.405+0000)

They pick a champion with near 0 experience on RANKED where nearly everyones' primary objective is winning. Yes doing that is intentional, and hurt others, and since they doing it i can't belive, that they care.

plenty of players play exclusively ranked

and with enough base knowledge of the game many players can first time a champion and outperform your 1 trick

The KombinatorJun 13, 20196 votes

Maybe on super high elo, but in gold low pts champ usually very bad, and rarely super skilled. The latter are the smurfs.

The game is way too fast phased to think, and check. Whatever champion you use you need experience with it to use it on top efficiency. Stuff like knowing exactly how long it takes to charge the skillshot, how fast it goes, how far it goes, when it is worth it, and so on. Even an easy champ like master yi needs a minimal practice at least. Otherwise you find yourself hitting the super tanky guy in the front, then get surprised with the near zero damage.

I know that plenty of players play exclusively ranked. Most of them has a several champ they know, and few champ, that they are good with. If they go ranked with first timer, then all i can say, that they are stupid.

Last but most importantly ranked is supposed to be balanced on skill. If you and me has the same skill, and i bring my main while you bring a first timer, then guess who gona be more efficient? You reduce the chance of your teammates by losing to me.

ThingamajigJun 13, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T11:06:58.943+0000)

Maybe on super high elo, but in gold low pts champ usually very bad, and rarely super skilled. The latter are the smurfs.

The game is way too fast phased to think, and check. Whatever champion you use you need experience with it to use it on top efficiency. Stuff like knowing exactly how long it takes to charge the skillshot, how fast it goes, how far it goes, when it is worth it, and so on. Even an easy champ like master yi needs a minimal practice at least. Otherwise you find yourself hitting the super tanky guy in the front, then get surprised with the near zero damage.

I know that plenty of players play exclusively ranked. Most of them has a several champ they know, and few champ, that they are good with. If they go ranked with first timer, then all i can say, that they are stupid.

Last but most importantly ranked is supposed to be balanced on skill. If you and me has the same skill, and i bring my main while you bring a first timer, then guess who gona be more efficient? You reduce the chance of your teammates by losing to me.

none of those proficiencies are required in low elo

ranked is supposed to be balanced on game knowledge not skill support players have insanely different level of mechanical skill compared to midlaners and top laners yet both players can be matched together and the game would be balanced

your rank shows your level of game knowledge not your skill this is why im saying that first timing a champion doesn't matter if you are aware of how your opponent should play and what your abilities do knowing what your abilities do takes literally 5-10minutes of using them

The KombinatorJun 13, 20195 votes

You couldn't possibly more wrong. This would be true on turn based games like chess, but LoL is NOT turn based. You don't have time to think about stuff. It's like explaining a civilian how gun works, then put him on the shooting range, and see, if he can do more, than a trained police officer. Or saying, that you can learn martial arts purely from watching movies. In this game you need skill, knowledge, and intelligence.

Skill to watch the minimap with half eye, land last hits, land skillshots, and use skills when needed. Not before, or after. Beside the minimap all of them is more or less champion dependent.

Intelligence to realize the good and bad situation, and calculate enemy movement.

And knowledge to know what other champions can do, and what to expect them.

3TWarriorJun 14, 20191 votes

actually...it really depends upon how well it's explained and how well the sights are aligned for the weapon and even the distance for firing

that and the "not an idiot" thing or the caliber of the weapon

Add to that that about 80% of all rounds fired are misses in combat situations or when under stress...

I tend to find CS more valuable than the minimap unless i'm dealing with a stealth-based jungler or a very mobile mid. You can see it in a lot of streams where they're watching their minimap and not their lane and it costs them

I've also never seen much value in whatever that spazm'ing motion is. It may keep your champion's pathing constantly refreshing, but the only time that's useful is if you're trying to get around minions. When doing the "spazm" , it's actually very easy to predict and even CONTROL that opponent's movements because they subconsciously click in the direction that they were spazm'ing

only the best of the best players actually recognize their own patterns and change to avoid being predictable, and even that's not a guarantee for climbing

The KombinatorJun 14, 20192 votes

Watching minimap is essential unless, if you play safely. It is part of the skill. The ability to watch 2 things "at once", or i could say keep checking the minimap frequently. Only the ADC can afford not to check the minimap, because he can expect, that Support will ping him in case of trouble. A extremely good supports might do this for the entire team, but those are kinda super rare. Losing a few minions is not worth dying for.

Though i see so damn often, that i need to ping my adc 3 times before they start moving. Also i can never understand this push the enemy mania.

If you are stronger, and let the enemy push, then you can either zone him denying more minions, or kill him with a counterattack.

If you are weaker, and let the enemy push, then you give better chance for your teammates to gank.

Cotten Eyed JoeJun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T10:40:57.405+0000)

They pick a champion with near 0 experience on RANKED where nearly everyones' primary objective is winning. Yes doing that is intentional, and hurt others, and since they doing it i can't belive, that they care.

Or its them wanting to play a game

The KombinatorJun 14, 20192 votes

Then go normal. On normal i hate when people start flaming for someone not using meta, or being bad. If you lose on normal, then all you "wasted" is some blue essence. If you lose on ranked, then you wasted LP which takes much more time to reclimb. Not to mention, if someone is in promo. In that case you might lost even more time for them.

Turtles Are OkayJun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

and you think just because they picked a champion they are intending to hurt and don't care?

Correct. If you don't take a bit of time to consider "what are the good values I can have in relation to my peers?" then no. We all flame and I understand even the worst things being said. You're under pressure and I know some might not agree with this and that's fine, but I understand that we're all humans and it's easy to get tilted, I myself have been silenced for very tame things because it's so hard to keep cool in this game.

But not taking time to reflect on your actions is the worst offense. You going straight up on a new champion in ranked, where the idea is you want to win is you going in with ill-intent.

There is no excuse to this. You have normals / blind picks / bots to play a champion a few dozen times before ranked.

ThingamajigJun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Turtles Are Okay,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-14T11:39:49.889+0000)

Correct. If you don't take a bit of time to consider "what are the good values I can have in relation to my peers?" then no. We all flame and I understand even the worst things being said. You're under pressure and I know some might not agree with this and that's fine, but I understand that we're all humans and it's easy to get tilted, I myself have been silenced for very tame things because it's so hard to keep cool in this game.

But not taking time to reflect on your actions is the worst offense. You going straight up on a new champion in ranked, where the idea is you want to win is you going in with ill-intent.

There is no excuse to this. You have normals / blind picks / bots to play a champion a few dozen times before ranked.

as i said there are people that understand the game better than you and can first time a champion and beat your ass with it regardless if you have 1000 games on yours

Turtles Are OkayJun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

as i said there are people that understand the game better than you and can first time a champion and beat your ass with it regardless if you have 1000 games on yours

They are 100% not in gold / plat elo.

This...this...you using a very, very edge case to justify disgusting behavior worries me.

General Esdeath Jun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Turtles Are Okay,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T08:55:45.447+0000)

If you go into a situation where your intent is to hurt and don't care about others, that's usually a sign of trolling.

So picking a champ he's never played means he doesn't care about winning?

Interesting...So should we stop people from playing champions in ranked unless they have mastery lv 5 on them?

AnotherFeederJun 14, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=000000000003,timestamp=2019-06-14T06:45:10.232+0000)

So picking a champ he's never played means he doesn't care about winning?

Interesting...So should we stop people from playing champions in ranked unless they have mastery lv 5 on them?

I think the idea is not playing a champion u dont know how to play. Not sure where ur getting the mastery level 5 from.

The KombinatorJun 14, 20192 votes

Something like that. Not mastery lv5, but a minimum mastery level. Maybe 2, or 3.

General Esdeath Jun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=0000000000030001,timestamp=2019-06-14T07:28:21.191+0000)

Something like that. Not mastery lv5, but a minimum mastery level. Maybe 2, or 3.

Why not 5?

The KombinatorJun 14, 20191 votes

Takes too much grind. Learning a champion similar to your main does not need that many games.

General Esdeath Jun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=000000000003000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T08:06:57.823+0000)

Takes too much grind. Learning a champion similar to your main does not need that many games.

But what if they're not similar to my main?

The KombinatorJun 14, 20191 votes

This is not easily calculabe by algorythm. Though we might use the champion classes to determine champion groups that are similar, and you would need a rank5 from a group, then all champion in that group would only require rank3. Though programming this would take much more effort.

General Esdeath Jun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=00000000000300010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T08:33:20.884+0000)

This is not easily calculabe by algorythm. Though we might use the champion classes to determine champion groups that are similar,

So by that logic, a Camille main should be able to pick up Riven easily since they're both fighters

The KombinatorJun 15, 20191 votes

No. It means he can learn it easier. If he has rank5 Riven, then enough to grind Camille to rank3, because the similar positioning, and style.

General Esdeath Jun 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=0000000000030001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T06:29:49.414+0000)

No. It means he can learn it easier. If he has rank5 Riven, then enough to grind Camille to rank3, because the similar positioning, and style.

As a m7 Riven, that's false

Riven plays a lot different in the early game, mid game, and sometimes late game than Camille.

The KombinatorJun 15, 20191 votes

Still less difference, than a Garen from Lux. I don't know Camille enough, because it's not exactly popular, but Riven could easily be on similar style to Diana, or Ekko. Fast movement, gain some survival even from offensive stat, little CC, melee basic attack range, low CD ult.

General Esdeath Jun 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=000000000003000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T07:19:31.067+0000)

Still less difference, than a Garen from Lux. I don't know Camille enough, because it's not exactly popular, but Riven could easily be on similar style to Diana, or Ekko. Fast movement, gain some survival even from offensive stat, little CC, melee basic attack range, low CD ult.

That does not sound like Riven at all. She has a lot of survival between HP and death's dance. She doesn't have fast movements until 40% cdr. She has 2 CC spells. Her ult isn't on a low CD until late.

Proxy345Jun 13, 20196 votes

Don't worry, new Morde is so easy that you can't go wrong with him lol

All the skill info can be read by the time minions spawn and none of it is complicated.

The KombinatorJun 13, 20192 votes

Brokenly OP champs happened before. Usually they end up on priority ban list in a day. Something tells me, that by monday Morde will be in the top 10.

NaalithJun 13, 20192 votes

Well most champions are permabanned for like two patches after they release regardless of how good or bad they are, just because people don't want their teammates playing them or they don't want an enemy going ham on their team out of nowhere.

The KombinatorJun 14, 20192 votes

On ranked yes. On normal no. Most people understand that learning the new champ has to start somewhere, or simply want to try themselves.

Also on ranked a weak/well balanced champ is less banned after a few days. People realize, that it's not a threat, or it's bad, and simply ask others not to pick it, and if enemy does, then well. Free LP.

Turtles Are OkayJun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Don't worry, new Morde is so easy that you can't go wrong with him lol

All the skill info can be read by the time minions spawn and none of it is complicated.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. It's about people's lack of respect from the get-go and forcing you to troll pick to force a dodge or you to dodge on your own.

There is no "the champion is easy". No such thing, even for low elo. You don't understand its interactions, its strengths and so on, you have no experience on it and you wanna get into a setting where people try to win but you deliberately make the worst choice you could make.

This is part of why League games are coin flips. Every single loss I have is because someone got auto-filled / first-time picking.

Luther King Jr VJun 15, 20191 votes

they still feed on him i don't want riot to encourage feeding in ranked

YaraUwUJun 13, 20196 votes

Yah my Wr is over 70% right now with mord i dont really care what you think about them. I had someone flame me in lobby and all game because i picked mord and i ended the game fucking 15/7 and then they proceeded to try to prove him flaming was my fault and not him just being an asshole.

I play the champion in practice to learn the kit and see if i understand and like the kit. I understood and liked mords kit so i took him to ranked and have only lost once due to getting my shit camped and having their jungler go unpunished for it.

SaezioJun 13, 20193 votes

Yah my Wr is over 70% right now with mord

Oh nice 70%+ winrate

have only lost once due to

Wait, how is 1 game more than 25% of your total games with mord?

So you won 3/4 ? that what you saying?

La Belle SauvageJun 13, 20192 votes

I think this can be enfoced by by requiring a mix of minmum mastery level (say 5) and mastery points like (hard to pick a good number) but at least 50k.

This not only prevents new champs but people taking existing champs into ranked with little or no mp points.

LeetriJun 13, 20194 votes

Also prevents like 95% of the player base from playing ranked at all since you need at least 20 champions at mastery 5.

La Belle SauvageJun 13, 20194 votes

Yeah no.

Look, the idea is to prevent Yahoo's from taking zero experience champs into ranked. I never said how many champs should be level 5 / 50 k points (so maybe something less like 30k).

Maybe they could change the # (if it's actually 20) to say 5 or 10 champs.

Getting lvl 5 and 30 - 50k mo points isn't that hard or time consuming.

But there should be a high bar to play ranked.

LeetriJun 14, 20192 votes

You need at the very least 20 champions that are playable in order to even queue up for ranked. 10 bans, 10 picks. That's 20. Only way to have anything lower than that is to remove bans and change how many players there are in a game. Any mastery restriction thus has to apply to every single champion, which at the very minimum is 20. Otherwise I can just get mastery 5 on 5 champions and still pick champions I've never played before. At 50% win rate it takes about 33 games to reach mastery 5. That's 660 games in order to just play ranked at all. An average game is about 30 minutes long, which means it's 330 HOURS of gameplay, or 2 hours every single day for over half a year. That means it could take 7-8 months before people can play ranked again. Most people don't play that much, so it's gonna take basically a year before the ranked population is back. And that's just the average, it could take way longer or somewhat shorter depending on how good you are.

Once you start to look at the numbers you'll realize how ridiculous of a suggestion that is. It can only work if it was there from the start, but it's not so it can't work.

La Belle SauvageJun 14, 20191 votes

No, I happen to disagree. I've considered the numbers and I'm fine with it. I love how gamers pretend like they don't spend a ton of time playing. But let me accept that is actually the case.

I still say so what. If Riot implemented my idea (They won't) and reset us all (again never) I'd be excited.

Because I knew when I was able to play ranked it would be with people who weren't practicing and wasting my time and effort by playing champs they have zero XP playing.

Unker139Jun 14, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=La Belle Sauvage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=00090000000000020000,timestamp=2019-06-14T17:19:27.899+0000)

No, I happen to disagree. I've considered the numbers and I'm fine with it. I love how gamers pretend like they don't spend a ton of time playing. But let me accept that is actually the case.

I still say so what. If Riot implemented my idea (They won't) and reset us all (again never) I'd be excited.

Because I knew one I was able to play ranked it would be with people who weren't practicing and wasting my time and effort by playing champs they have zero XP playing.

I play ranked for two reasons. I like knowing how I compare to other people and I don't enjoy the normal game experience.

Normal game, to me, are just as toxic as ranked, are far more unpredictable, and do very little to prepare you for ranked. The best way to learn ranked is to play ranked.

I leveled up with Janna at a 56% win rate. My win rate with Janna in ranked is 12%. Every trick I learned in normals and reinforced over dozens of games don't work in ranked.

I don't add champions very often but when I do, why should I be forced to play in a game mode I don't like to learn habits that probably won't translate well into ranked?

There are 1.1 million ranked players better than me. I hope to break the top million this season. Other than that my rank means nothing. There are 800k ranked players better than you and you are trying to improve. Other than that your rank means nothing. Why is your game experience more important than mine that putting more than mine is justfied?

If everyone worse than you were excluded from ranked play so that you didn't get them on your team to ruin your games do you think that you suddenly move up? The rankings are relative to the player base so you would drop.

La Belle SauvageJun 17, 20191 votes

Hey A fellow Support player!

"leveled up with Janna at a 56% win rate. My win rate with Janna in ranked is 12%. Every trick I learned in normal and reinforced over dozens of games don't work in ranked." First let me say I didn't check which division you are. I'm a terrible player and I'm stuck in Silver because of my bad habits, something I'm trying to fix - so remember my experience is based on that Division. I think there isn't enough data to conclude that you low win rate in Ranked is anything to do with the difference in the queues. however, I grant that yes, those Queues are different, people take Normal less seriously (but not by much imo), so I can see why you draw that conclusion. And certainly the difference in the queues are only part of the reason. I suspect (and have zero proof) that the matching making plays a part too. I've noticed that last year most of my Silver games, and B1 games too only included mostly other B1 and S5 players. However, this year the range is much wider including players in Iron! Furthermore, I've been paired players who have little experience with ADC or take a ADC champ with Zero XP points / Mastery points. When in the last prior 3 seasons I've achieved Mid Silver and have just over 500k points on Sona (my main). That shouldn't happen. I suspect (again unsupported opinion) that if Riot fixed that part that win rates across all divisions particularly in the bot lane would increase.

In fact some of my biggest intuitions came from me playing normal in other roles in addition to support that helped me get out of Bronze after my first season.

And I hope you achieve your goal, and even if you miss it, it doesn't have to "mean nothing". At the very least it's an indication that something in your play is not working.

For example - when I play norms (especially when I'm support) I'm looking to play well despite my team. When I feel like we may lose or see that my team is picking way off meta champs I concentrate on other parts of the game besides winning lane. I make sure I'm warding as much and in the best spots I can. I'm looking for Pics in the river with my Jungler / mid laner, I look to roam when appropriate, I look for off-meta but still effective builds that could contribute to a turn around or that I wouldn't try in ranked. And about those builds, if I find something that works surprisingly well, then I build that over and over again to test the build out, if I get good results, I place it in my item build. I look to play and learn other Support champs in norms as well. And I even will play, Mid, ADC, and Jungle so I can get a feel for those roles as well. And over the years i'ts helped.

Part of Normals (practice) is having he proper attitude (not to say that yours is wrong or poor).

La Belle SauvageJun 17, 20191 votes

I'd like to add that I shouldn't be forced to be paired with players who are trying new champs out in ranked.

SaezioJun 14, 20191 votes

How about we permaban people from ranked if their winrate in their first 100 ranked games is sub 49%. then they need to play 100 normals and if they don't get over 51% winrate they need another 100 games. Wouldn't that increase ranked player population skills much more than your proposal?

(this isn't viable I know, it's a bad idea, but you just want stuff that suits YOU PERSONALLY because you play a lot.)

It doesn't even matter cause bad players will be in bad elo and good players in good elo in the end no matter the system. Everyone gets where they deserve.

La Belle SauvageJun 17, 20191 votes

"It doesn't even matter cause bad players will be in bad elo and good players in good elo in the end no matter the system. Everyone gets where they deserve."

That's seriously a lazy argument and a poor one at that.

SolarisCorvusJun 13, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=La Belle Sauvage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2rIiOHME,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-06-13T16:23:45.574+0000)

I think this can be enfoced by by requiring a mix of minmum mastery level (say 5) and mastery points like (hard to pick a good number) but at least 50k.

This not only prevents new champs but people taking existing champs into ranked with little or no mp points.

There is a huge problem with that suggestion though. If that were to be implemented then new players would not only have to grind to level 30 and grind BE ( assuming they dont just buy champs with RP) in order to get enough champs to be able to play every role in ranked in case they get filled, they would have to grind to mastery 3 with each of those champs in order to even start ranking. This would of course lead to more cases of players choosing the one champ that they have at mastery three despite what role they might be and lead to more ruined games. Honestly there really is no way to implement a system of that sort withtout ruining some aspect of the game for players.

Also this problem doesn’t exclusively affect your team but the other team as well, so chance is on your side ( assuming youre not the player first timing the champ) because at the most you have a possibility of getting four of those players on your team while the enemy has a chance if getting five of those players on their team.

( I just copypasted this response because you had the same idea)

La Belle SauvageJun 13, 20193 votes

Yeah, I realize it's not perfect, but that's right. I am tired of players practicing in ranked. In my humble opinion that shouldn't be allowed.