It's so dumb that when you go on a win streak you literally have to just sit and wait until your games all start being shit. Like the overall quality of games suddenly changes and you're like oh this is my punishment for winning a couple games. It's so impossible to climb, you go on a streak to win your promos, then you have 0lp in your new divison and here come the loss streak and your back in your previous elo. Makes no sense.
Mysticman892 votes
Red Wreckage1 votesyeah...that is pure horseshit. :)
the rioters in that post are silvers themself. the fk they'll know about matchmaking
Mysticman892 votesI mean, they designed it, so you'd think they know a thing or two about how it works.
Also, you appear to be silver yourself, so I'm a little unclear as to why you're suggesting game rank is related to knowledge of the underlying matchmaking algorithms.
Red Wreckage1 votesknowing a thing about how they designed it to work....not knowing a thing about how the is actually working.
like that bullshit about making it 50% chance for both teams to win. How they achieved that? If someone is winning a lot, bless him with ~38% winrate players, and average players in enemy team, so both teams are at level, but in reality the player on win streak is fked.
haaaaaaalp1 votesThey just take 10 players at the same mmr.
It is mathematically impossible to give players on winstreaks only allies with sub 40% winrates without significantly increasing queue times. Those 38% winrate players are a small minority of the community and it would take astromically long to find 4 of them to match with someone who is "winning a lot."
Kai Guy1 votes"To the matchmaker, a “fair” match can be loosely defined as a match in which each team has a 50% +/-1% chance of winning. In a perfect match, ten individuals with identical MMRs queue at the same time, each having selected a unique position that they’re well-suited for. That situation is incredibly rare depending on who is queueing at the time, so sometimes teams can have very slight skill differences (on average, no more than 4-5 MMR)."
"Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League and your MMR: You’re winning a lot, and the matchmaker is placing you against stronger opponents. A Silver player pushing for Gold should expect to see higher-tier players in their games. It means you’re winning more than you’re losing, and it means the matchmaker is starting to suspect that you’re worthy of higher placement. If you’re on a big win streak, you may even start to see opponents several divisions above you. Your opponent is losing a lot, and the matchmaker is placing them against lower-ranked opponents to find them an appropriate spot on the ladder. The team’s average MMR is the same, but one team has five roughly-equal teammates and the other team has a few very highly-ranked players and a few lower ones. This one is pretty rare outside of full-premade teams, but we make our best efforts to try and ensure that we still balance queue times into fair matches."
Source Thou as you believe riot can not be trusted this will likely just get a BUT THATS BS response. At which point I happily point you to dota 2 or Smite
Red Wreckage1 votesMy team's MMR: 1163 1195 1169 1256 1200(me) Enemy Team: 1366 1341 1231 1202 1270
suck their toes all you want, their matchmaking is donkey's piss.
LOOK at this shit. I'm wining a lot, I get higher MMR players for enemy team, and at same time those enemy players are losing a lot so they get players shittier than them, INCLUDING ME for their enemies, my team. My teams MMR is boosted cause of me, and lowered at the same time cause of enemy team's? how fucking retarded shit is this?
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Wreckage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2I8IJnEx,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-04T15:17:15.754+0000)
My team's MMR: 1163 1195 1169 1256 1200(me) Enemy Team: 1366 1341 1231 1202 1270
suck their toes all you want, their matchmaking is donkey's piss.
LOOK at this shit. I'm wining a lot, I get higher MMR players for enemy team, and at same time those enemy players are losing a lot so they get players shittier than them, INCLUDING ME for their enemies, my team. My teams MMR is boosted cause of me, and lowered at the same time cause of enemy team's? how fucking retarded shit is this?
How do you know the player's specific MMRs?
Red Wreckage1 votesop.gg
I know it is not 100% accurate...but since silver rioters decide to hide actual MMR from us....it is the closest approximation of it.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Wreckage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2I8IJnEx,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-04T15:57:11.671+0000)
op.gg
I know it is not 100% accurate...but since silver rioters decide to hide actual MMR from us....it is the closest approximation of it.
So your MMR could actually be much closer. As you said it's only an approximation.
And in that particular match, your team was actually ahead for the first 22 minutes, only to lose in a comeback by the other side. How can you argue that the match wasn't fair?
Red Wreckage1 votesYou have to be there to see the unfairness lol. not gonna write a whole story about what was going on in that game.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Wreckage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2I8IJnEx,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-04T20:23:37.689+0000)
You have to be there to see the unfairness lol. not gonna write a whole story about what was going on in that game.
You don't really have to. We can see it pretty clearly. Your team is ahead for the first 2/3 of the game, and you want to claim the game wasn't fair.
Kai Guy1 votesPlus Red wants to take MMR after a game, and inevitably the team that won will have higher numbers because they all got MMR up for the win and your team gets lower numbers because you lost. Plus X games inbetween when you looked them all up when ya GG searched them.
Lets say that match was worth 50 MMR across the board and redistribute that to what the teams would look like befor the game. Your team:1163 1195 1169 1256 1200(me) (1200 is closer to B1 then it is to Silver 4 btw.) Enemy Team: 1366 1341 1231 1202 1270
QUICK MATHS adjusted for 50 MMR
Your team 1306 1245 1250 1219 1213 <- higher MMR team, This is in no way accurate as its not a clean 50 MMR, just an example for why you need to care about mmr used to make the game not mmr after the game.
Enemy team 1316 1291 1220 1169 1152
Using OP GG if we wanted to try and be more specific What was the Average MMR it built that game around? 1245
Yes. Really unfair, Riots keeping Red down.
Red Wreckage1 voteswatch this game replay or something. It was unfair as fk. It even proves my point, even with having big lead early, the low MMR trash in my team throw(int) hard as fk. u can't really do much with a suicidal garen who never left top lane, only dying, running back top, 1v3 them and die again to repeat it all till we lost. and a veigar whose first words after spawn were, "i'll need help in mid plz gank"
Kai Guy1 votesI'll watch it, Link to replay please?
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Wreckage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2I8IJnEx,comment-id=000200000000000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-03-05T05:34:52.421+0000)
watch this game replay or something. It was unfair as fk. It even proves my point, even with having big lead early, the low MMR trash in my team throw(int) hard as fk. u can't really do much with a suicidal garen who never left top lane, only dying, running back top, 1v3 them and die again to repeat it all till we lost. and a veigar whose first words after spawn were, "i'll need help in mid plz gank"
Where is this replay? What were the other 4 of you doing with your 4v2 advantage elsewhere in the map? What's wrong with Veigar asking for help early?
RenownedWheat421 votesSo do you want Riot to just let you freely keep winning? Do you think you're supposed to just keep playing people you're better than, so you infinitely climb? Not how it works.
Who Fed Ru1 votesor your mmr just gets higher so you can't keep up with the higher elo anymore, and are therefore losing?
Red Wreckage1 votesmay he can keep up with higher elo, if his teams suddenly don't start becoming full bronze.
Kai Guy1 votesYou may wish to read overwatch article for ladder climbing
"Forced 50% Winrate The idea that there's a forced 50% winrate seems to be fairly common among Overwatch players. It's usual for players who are climbing rapidly through winstreaks to start feeling like the system is turning against them. They start to get teammates that are seemingly worse or at the same rank the streaker started at while their opponents keep getting higher. Eventually the term "forced 50% winrate" was coined and that's the boogeyman of most winstreakers who find themselves at an abrupt end to their fortune. But why does this happen? If you're improving and climbing the ranks, shouldn't your teammates do that with you? The answer is yes and no. For example, in higher levels of play you rarely see 100% of players in the same skill bracket. It happens that you see games where one team has a rank 3400, 3450, 3200, 3600, 3385 and 3500 (avg 3423) respectively and then the enemy team has a lineup with 3200, 3100, 3300, 3400, 3700 and 3800 (avg 3416). While the average team SRs are equal the rank 3700 and 3800 might feel like they've been dealt a bad hand and might call it "Forced 50%". Now, the system won't put you in games like these unless the queue time is decently long or the number of players is low, like the condensed higher ranks. It will always try to put that 3700 and 3800 with even teammates and opponents. Since you're on a winstreak and with a higher SR, the system still expects you to win. If you belong in your current rank, statistically you should win that game as well. You'll still get good gains if you do win and everybody is happy. If you do lose these games, the system will end your winstreak and assume you're closer to your true rank."
"In Conclusion Using shortcuts isn't the way to become the best. There's tons of work you will have to put in in order to reach the top but in the end it will be worth it. By using shortcuts or blaming others, you're missing out on lessons you need to learn and that lack of experience will haunt you for a long time if you build your game knowledge on those shortcuts. This is going to sound cheesy, but the best and usually fastest way to reach the top is just to roll up your sleeves and get to work. Be self-critical, think rationally and don't give in to that tempting blame shifting - no matter if it's blaming the system or a player. Because there's always something you could've done better."
Red Wreckage1 votes"Since you're on a winstreak and with a higher SR, the system still expects you to win."
Ofc a flawed system will. This is not a 1v1 game. A player cannot solo carry every single game, if skill difference between him and enemy team is not astronomically high.
"If you do lose these games, the system will end your winstreak and assume you're closer to your true rank."
yea...my true rank decided by matchmaking and the amount of shitters I get teamed with, my own gameplay has no say in it. got it.
Kai Guy1 votesYes! Exactly! When your at your True rank your wins and losses are entirely determined by teammates and opponents because your just not good enough have your gameplay have any say in it. I'm glad you finally got it. You wont Impact games unless your better then the SR, MMR, etc your placed in, so improve your gameplay!
Red Wreckage1 votesactually its the opposite. 4 pieces of turd in my team decide the outcome of the match every 2nd game and I can't solo carry a 5v5 team game. THEN the system decides, "oh look at this idiot, he can't even 1v5 carry like 20 games in a row, he don't deserve to climb. he at his "true" rank."
Are you one of the rioters? or trying to go for becoming a mod/warden etc. here? or are just simply thick in the head? You must be if you think I must have Diamond level of skill, just to get out of Silver.
Kai Guy1 votesStep 1. check my comment history. Step 2 realize there just no realistic way I could be a red or mod with how I interact with player base. Step 3, Reassess whos Thick in the head, This may be difficult for some but do not get worried as I hear mirrors are great help with that as they can really help you focus on a thing.
Lets clear this up. In your thread I pointed out other team games have "50%" forced win rates according to a random player who plays that game. This Goes directly contrary to what the Devs behind those games claim their match maker does.
Whats the Red Wreckage official stance?
That You don't believe what riot claims or is it that you disbelieve the rest of the industry + riot? This is a reason I used a Overwatch article not a league of legends one for this post. In your responses are you aware that Your calling their system broken as well.
Please help me try and clear this up. Do you think that its a broken system, and every Dev out there's stupid for using it? That 50% forced rates are a thing that's apparently the industry standard? The industry wants a broken system to be the norm?
Or do we dismiss the complaints about other games, those posters are wrong and don't understand how their games matchmakers work, however, riot is not trustworthy like other devs so your theory it literally Riggs matches to make you lose is accurate? Oh and OW is broken as well as your directly responding to me saying it is to the OW article I linked you.
Also, I'm glad your aware its a team game, but you realize teamwork matters right? you still have to play around a weak teammate as that dudes on your team. By all means try to treat it as a 9v1 game, adapt that attitude and playstyle, really dedicate yourself to it. If you do, let me say in advance, cheers mate to finishing your 3rd year in silver, its not your fault after all and please Don't Google Farcry the definition of insanity video as its violent and has curse words.
SwiftKitten881 votesyou know instead of giving him trash teammates and the same opponents.. maybe it can give him stronger opponents and stronger teammates?
the mmr of all players should match.. its should be.. oh this player has a higher mmr therefore in order to make it so he doesn't actually face harder opponents we have to get him complete monkeys as teammates so that the team mmr is the same.
GIVE HIM BETTER OPPONENTS AND BETTER ALLIES!!
