The Sejuani Debate

Chortle·Nov 17, 2014·2 votes·4,025 views

Hey guys! Just wanting to start some discussion about one of my favorite champions, Sejuani! These questions are what I have found to be the "hot topics" of discussion centered around her.

What role do you play as Sejuani? Do you prefer the Tanky jungler with incredible gank potential? Maybe you like the AP dfg centered mid Sejuani? Support aura Sejuani (well now you have my attention!).

What is your preferred build in said role? Build order, why x item works well on her, etc.

How viable do you feel she is in her current state? What improvements does she need? Do you think she is in a good spot, why?

Skins What skin do you use most often? Have an idea for a skin that would be exceptional for her?

Let the discussion begin

67 Comments

Paragon FuryNov 17, 201411 votes

You know what Sejuani needs?

A hug.

Maple CrusaderNov 17, 20143 votes

You know what Sejuani needs?

A hug.

Courtesy of Braum? "Sometimes icy heart just needs warm smile."

delonixNov 17, 20143 votes

Mind=blown. I thought Braum was just bad at English and was saying "sometimes I see heart just needs warm smile."

AkeitoNov 17, 20143 votes

You know what Sejuani needs?

A hug.

She'll kill you outright, the result from that hug is nothing, not even a blush.

Maple CrusaderNov 17, 20144 votes

You know what Sejuani needs?

A hug.

She'll kill you outright, the result from that hug is nothing, not even a blush.

I have a feeling that she would have hugged Bristle during her youth in those long, cold nights. She'll deny it, of course.

zSeraphNov 18, 20143 votes

What role do you play as Sejuani? My main is jungle :v

What is your preferred build in said role?

early: & & ; or (teemo, kata, ziggs...) or (fiora, tryn, pan, j4...) or or (tris, vayne, tryn...) (amumu, kata, ori...) or (syndra, ahri...) (if i feel enough tanky)

I pick her when I have to play again a team very mobile or many CC or my team has kata, ziggs, mf.... But she has a slow jungle clear, not a good duelist until late game. In early level, her gank is rely on damage form ally.

Final GirINov 17, 20142 votes

I hate Sejuani because of her lore. Like, Ashe was just trying to help you Sejuani! She just wanted to unite the Freijlord! Sejuani is literally the biggest bitch. She took Ashe's offering and set it on fire and then declared her hatred for her. Ash was literally like "Sejuani, your people shall never go hungry with this! Look at this wonderful gift, all I would like is for us to live in peace and we can have wonderful lives!" and Sejuani just went "Bitch! Get that shit out mah face!" God I hate you Sejuani.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

To be fair though, she is a barbarian haha.

She saw the offering as an insult and thought it would make her tribe weak.

Final GirINov 17, 20141 votes

Still... Hella rude. This is why I vote with Ashe. I'm on her side out of the 3 Freijlord women. Sejuani and Lissandra are just so mean. So I'll stick with Ashe.

ChortleNov 17, 20143 votes

I see parallels between Kuvira and Korra for the Legend of Korra.

Korra (Ashe) offers peace offering, Kuvira (Sejuani) who is also called "The Great Uniter" denies offering and would rather solve issues with hand-to-hand combat.

Maple CrusaderNov 17, 20141 votes

I see parallels between Kuvira and Korra for the Legend of Korra.

Korra (Ashe) offers peace offering, Kuvira (Sejuani) who is also called "The Great Uniter" denies offering and would rather solve issues with hand-to-hand combat.

Disturbing, coincidental similarity between Sej and Kuvira.

FluppetsNov 17, 20142 votes

Holy shit im so glad you point this out; because I** SWEAR** that is the same voice actor.

I bought Sejuani today and I happen to have watched Korra right before buying her, and in-game I immediately heard the similarities. Sejuani's lines are also lines that Kuvira would say (or vice-versa).

I tried looking online, but it's not very clear who the voice-actors are.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

I'm not too sure it is. I know that Zelda Williams (daughter of Robin Williams) voices Kuvira

They do sound really similar though

kirbyzamaNov 17, 20141 votes

Try to see it from Sejuani's perspective. Ashe's tribe is naturally wealthy and fertile. Sej's is harsh and baron. Sejuani as leader finally gets things to a livable condition. Sejuani is loved by her people. Then ashe offers to feed her people if sej bows to her. Would Ashe just let people starve otherwise? Not too heroic if you ask me. Ashe was manipulating her. She can't fight their swords so she would fight their stomachs. Would you surrender to a tribe that has ignored you all your life? Would you let your people become the meat shields for that tribe like tryndamere did? This is the line of thinking sejuani is coming from. She doesn't want to be manipulated or forced to serve someone especially someone she feels is weak. Would anyone? Especially since she can feed her people on her own.

Final GirINov 17, 20141 votes

She offers grains that will grow on any land in any weather condition, in exchange for peace between tribes. Not for Sejuani to bow to her, for peace between the tribes of the Freijlord. Ashe did not want to rule Sejuani's tribe. It's not like Ashe had been the leader of her tribe her whole life. Not to mention, once you become a leader you can't just start doing things, you have to build up the ability to help. She wouldn't even be serving Ashe, all Ashe asked for was peace and that was all. Not to command Sejuani. She can barely feed her own people anyways. Ashe offered her the security to help and make sure her tribe was fed and cared for, all Ashe asked for in return was peace. If Sejuani had accepted they could of fought along side one another to defeat Lissandra, rather then an all out battle to the death that could end up destroying almost every tribe in the Freijlord. If Anivia, literally the spirit of the Freijlord, joined Ashe. I think Ashe is the right way to go.

kirbyzamaNov 17, 20141 votes

LIke a said this is Sejuani's perspective not really my own. She doesn't know who ashe is and she doesn't care. She is an avarosan and they have been enemies since forever. Also no, Ashe didn't want just peace. In the debunked JoJ she named herself queen. She wanted sejuani as a general/advisor. It's like how kuvira let the old town rulers stay rulers while she controlled the nation. Sej would still be her clan leader but ashe would be the queen. Liss also deceived sej and convinced her the crown was her birth right. Though yes it technically is ashes . Finally in quinn's journey to the frejlord we see Sejuani's tribe isn't scraping by. It's thriving. In the reworked frejlord things aren't all that black and white aside from liss being evil.

HrudNov 17, 20142 votes

I hate Sejuani because of her lore. Like, Ashe was just trying to help you Sejuani! She just wanted to unite the Freijlord! Sejuani is literally the biggest bitch. She took Ashe's offering and set it on fire and then declared her hatred for her. Ash was literally like "Sejuani, your people shall never go hungry with this! Look at this wonderful gift, all I would like is for us to live in peace and we can have wonderful lives!" and Sejuani just went "Bitch! Get that shit out mah face!" God I hate you Sejuani.

I like Sejuani because of her lore. Screw Ashe the demacian broad. Lissandra's a complete nutjob, so Sejuani is the only option for a strong, independant Freljord that don't need no man.

killd0zerNov 17, 20142 votes

I'm not a huge Sejuani player, but I've always felt she has too much overlap with Amumu. It's the same problem they've been trying to fix where champions are so similar, you usually just want to pick the better one. Sejuani has obvious strength's over Amumu, and weaknesses as well, but I feel like she needs to move further away, as they both more or less fulfill the AP Tank role.

I'd really rather see her doing less damage and increasing her crowd control, and making her more about slows than dealing outright dmg herself.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

I'm not sure how they could increase the CC in her kit. I think she has arguable the most CC in her kit out of all the other champions in League.

I do see the similarities though. The only thing I think could be changed to enhance their differences would be Sejuani's W since it is aoe and dot like amumu.

W Suggestion change: Maybe she slams the ground with her flail dragging it and causing the ground behind Sejuani to become temporarily covered in ice that slows enemies and speeds up allies.

Permafrost increases the slow on enemies on the ice.

Using permafrost with the ice on the field increased the slow of the area and increases allied movement speed.

delonixNov 17, 20142 votes

I like playing support Sejuani.

Relic Shield and Ancient Coin, as well as their upgrades, are both viable on her. I usually try to stay in lane until 1300g to pick up the upgrade for my support item as well as a sightstone on my first back, but sometimes I have to choose one or the other. After that, I mostly build to fit the situation. Liandry's is solid against tanks and gives some extra damage. Randuin's Omen or Locket of the Iron Solari are great against AD and AP respectively. Lots of Vision Wards are good too.

She's probably not viable as support up in the higher ranks, but she has a pretty solid support kit. I usually take exhaust and ignite, which makes trading in lane a lot easier. After laning, it's all about landing good ults onto the enemy team.

I like Sabretusk Sejuani. Bristle is adorable as a wild boar.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

She's such a fun unconventional support!

Sabretusk is a fine choice :]

doviendeNov 17, 20141 votes

Generally you want to get your tier 2 support item as soon as possible to get the upgraded GP10 and passives. If you wait until you've got 1300g, it's almost not worth it to upgrade the support item anymore, and might have done better with a doran's shield.

As support, I pretty much always want to recall around the ~600g mark to spend 500g on support item upgrade and then get a ward and a pot. Then go back later to get sightstone. (unless their jungle is camping, so you'd want sightstone immediately, foregoing the extra gold of the support item)

BrunikRokbyterNov 17, 20142 votes

I main Sejuani in ranked. I play her (now) as full raid-boss tank jungler.

Runes/masteries I go for hybrid pen marks, Scaling armor seals, scaling MR Glyphs, and MS quints. If I don't feel like MS quints, I swap to hybrid pen there as well.

If you max 'w' on sej first, you have no jungle clearing issues. You have a slight health issue. Typically, if I can participate in first blood I can first back at level 4, with 1k gold. I get quillcoat, boots, crystaline flask, and depending a ward or two. At this point, you can clear the jungle and worry very little for mana or health. The flask will last you most of the game, and you will easily get your moneys worth out of its 3 charges.

Typical build is item 1039 and 4x item 2003

First buy is item 3205 item 1001 item 2041

Second buy item 3207

If on second back i find myself with 1000+ gold, i will strait up get a giants belt. Depending on team comp it gets turned into item 3083 or item 3068 as soon as item 3207 is done. From there, itemize health/resists. Remember that your 'w' scales directly off of your bonus health in damage, so you can easily get this to be a 600 damage spell.

Start ADC side with 1 point in your 'w'. Use its auto attack refresh for a little extra damage. Level up your 'q' next, and hit as many minions as you can with in in second camp, followed by your 'w'. Then your second buff. From here, you should have 1 potion left, and be looking to gank top/mid. Anyone pushed up is vulnerable to you, due to your Movespeed quints, and your points in bonus movespeed in support. if they have a gap closer, save yours to catch them on theirs. If they have a channel glares at lissandra... watch them cast it.. give it half a second, then 'q' them. They will be in the air and unable to finish the channel/connect the spell.

Sejuani's kit is SO much more than amumu's. Her ability to get away using her 'q' is way higher than most junglers. If you get good, you can easily clear the wraith camp into mid lane, and you can (with practice) jump over the thickets part of red buff wall. I also regularly go over "wight corner" into the lane and into an opponent that was attacking the tower.

A lot of people complain that Sejuani's ult is also too much of a projectile, but you can actually cover it up. Next time you go to throw it, trying hiding it underneath yourself as you 'q' in. You will almost completely obscure the projectile and when you land, everyone will be stunned.

Full build you can get 5.5k hps, 200+ resists on both, 400ish move speed (depending on boots of preference and enchants... WAY more if you have item 3117 obviously.

As long as you aren't stupid, there is no reason for you to pretty much ever die once you get your warmogs/Golem. Most of my deaths are ganks gone bad early game, or strait up overconfidence post that point.

Try it out, and let me know what you think! Do not underestimate the MS quints and the movespeed at the top of the support tree! You will see a huge difference!

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

I play her (now) as full raid-boss tank jungler.

She totally turns into a raid boss haha

Sej main here too.

This is worth the read guys

Killer X 12Nov 17, 20142 votes

Tanky Jungle Sej. Build order depends on my team comp and other team comp. Preferred build order though is: ancient Golem, boots, Sunfire, abyssal scepter, Liandry's, Visage or Omen.

As i think about this, idek, its been so long since i played Sej jungle lol

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

Sej is a really strong pick against the current mobility meta.

Why so long since you picked her up? I feel like a lot of people are just "meh" about her.

Killer X 12Nov 17, 20141 votes

I enjoy playing her (her ult is so satisfying), i enjoy her as a champ, i'll even trade for her in ARAMs, but i don't play her in jungle because i really hate jungling. I've played her jungle maybe once in the past 3 months.

Her ganks are good but her dueling is weak and her clear speed is slow. Though i really like her Diana is an ap jungle that fits my personal pacing and play style a bit better.

I'm going to try and learn the new jungle though once the preseason starts. I'm excited for how the new items will let her improve her clear speed, be tanky (or do damage), and still have great ganks.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

yeah Sej is actually what helped me find my love for jungling :D

I think the S5 jungle might actually help her have a more safe early game with the new smite buffs.

Have you tried Ap sej top or mid?

item 3128 item 3020 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135 and item 3102 or item 3026

Her ult alone can chunk the enemy team to 75% health, 50% if you E.
Great for Aoe team Comps

Killer X 12Nov 17, 20142 votes

Just played 2 games with her as jungle actually, still hate i can't actually fight the other jungler...but it was Rengar one game lol.

I haven't played her top or mid, though i'm aware she does good damage. That might be something i try if i play more normals, or if i'm playing with friends (I have like 1200 ARAMs to 700 Normals).

AtheosisXNov 17, 20142 votes

The new jungle looks like it is going to kick her ass. Am I wrong?

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

Only time will tell, but I think she'll be able to manage decently enough.

MattAkhavanNov 17, 20142 votes

Sejuani... So fun... This champ got me all the way to plat. So this is what i usually play when I play sejuani. (30ish games)

My Build order (IN THIS ORDER) item 1080 item 2049 item 3206 item 3020 item 3068 item 3001 item 3151 Depending on the match up you might go more tanky or more damage ( more fun )

So sejuani is an insanely fun jungler with a ton of cc, damage, and tankyness. I always max E because it just does a ton of damage. R-E-Q-W it the order i max skills.

The only thing i think Sejuani would need to make her super competitive is maybe a reset on kill with permaforst OR 50% cooldown on kill for permaforst. Since perma frost is a very very very large portion of her damage and her biggest weakness is her cooldowns it would be what makes he super OP. Not that i think of it I don't think that is a very good idea because she'll just be the best champ in the game. Shoutout to Mister Oink & my favorite league of legends youtube KSHAWAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxR_tj7ardE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxfUOz88pGE

BeatzBoyFTWNov 17, 20141 votes

What role do you play as Sejuani?

Well duh, the tanky jungler with better ganking potential and mobility. Who would want to make their life hard & miserable going AP mid Sejuani?

What is your preferred build in said role?

Usually a Spirit of the Golem item, then onwards to Mercury Thread. After that, depends on enemy composition, just build everything on HP and either heavy armor or magic resists. I always tale Aegis of the Legion when I have to deal with a fed Katarina.

How viable do you feel she is in her current state?

She seems ok, but her early game power needs to be buffed. I was always very close in getting myself executed from the blue to red then golems.

Skins?

Don't own any skin, but I would lookout for that Bear Cavalry Sales.

ChortleNov 17, 20142 votes

Who would want to make their life hard & miserable going AP mid Sejuani?

It's actually quite strong. Just different playstyle than her tanky jungle

SmokingPuffinNov 17, 20141 votes

I play Sejuani with item 3206 in the jungle. I focus on making eye-wateringly painful initiations, while building just enough tanky stuff that it's uncomfortable to focus me down.

I think she needs to be better in the jungle to be a serious pick. Amumu does about the same thing that she does in teamfights, but he's like greased lightning in the jungle, while she's struggling to clear every camp. I suspect that the season 5 jungle, as is, will push her out of the role entirely.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

I also fear for her in S5 jungle, but I have a feeling Riot will find a way to keep her semi-viable since that is her intended role.

Why do you like item 3206 over item 3207 ?

I prefer Golems with an early item 3136 .

I almost always grab Haunting Guise for early-mid game. The health and magic pen does wonders for her AP or Tank roles.

I do suggest selling it later if you are going AP for item 3135 or item 3001 , but if you're going aoe tank, item 3068 synergizes extremely well with item 3151 . Although because of the cost of Liandry's, I suggest keeping it at Haunting until you feel tanky enough.

SmokingPuffinNov 17, 20142 votes

Why do you like over ?

You have to stack health to get the value from item 3207 . I want to buy just enough defense to make it uncomfortable to focus me. item 3206 is gold efficient just by farming.

I agree that item 3136 is fantastic on her. A typical full build for me is item 3206 item 3068 item 3151 item 3135 item 3157 item 3020 .

RokonNov 17, 20142 votes

I feel like I've read something that rito is not only focusing on jungle updates but on hopefully making more junglers viable. I'd LOVE to see someone besides kha/rengar/lee become priority picks in all levels of play from the pros to the for funsies.

SmokingPuffinNov 17, 20141 votes

I feel like I've read something that rito is not only focusing on jungle updates but on hopefully making more junglers viable. I'd LOVE to see someone besides kha/rengar/lee become priority picks in all levels of play from the pros to the for funsies.

Xypherous is being very ambitious in his jungle items rework. He's looking to use the itemization to support four different jungle playstyles:

Ganker - this is the one that everyone plays today, it's the only thing that works.
Farmer - Lives in the jungle early, emerges as a terror late.
Poacher - Takes stuff from the enemy jungle.
Duelist - Tries to kill the enemy jungler in solo combat.

I like the theory here. By making a jungle item for each role, and then allowing each to be upgraded in different directions a la boots, this allows them to tune the strength level of each playstyle of jungler. It's similar to mastery rating in WoW, and a big upgrade from the existing jungle itemization that strongly pushes junglers that can take advantage of the mechanical quirks of item 3209 or item 3160 .

With the ability to buy the duelist item, then get the AP overlay, we get a more flexible itemization that -- at least in theory -- can support more different good junglers at the same time, while allowing for playstyle-specific tuning, rather than raw stat tuning. I'm optimistic, it looks like good design.

KingsgraveNov 17, 20141 votes

Considering Pros play Sejuani as a burst mage, I think her Mana Costs and her W in general need to be worked on.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

Reduced mana costs?

And what would you like to see reworked about her W?

SmokingPuffinNov 17, 20141 votes

Reduced mana costs?

And what would you like to see reworked about her W?

The problem with W is that it doesn't give nearly enough damage upgrade to justify ranking over E. E gives 10 less damage per point, but only if the enemy stays in the W cyclone for the full duration.

As a result, I leave W at rank 1 forever and ever. It's a really clunky spell that has basically no PvP use other than enabling E.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

I do the same thing actually. Permafrost is just so great for burst/ganks.

W on the other hand... good for clearing jungle? So i guess if you're looking for a pve oriented Sej... (idk why you would)

SmokingPuffinNov 17, 20142 votes

I do the same thing actually. Permafrost is just so great for burst/ganks.

W on the other hand... good for clearing jungle? So i guess if you're looking for a pve oriented Sej... (idk why you would)

The thing is, you only get 10 more damage per rank in W over E. That's a tiny number. 40 damage is what, half an auto? Big who cares. You do get a cooldown reduction on W, but it's not relevant to jungle clears because you don't spend enough time at each camp to use two Ws.

W is just a poorly thought out skill. A redesign of W, aimed at making it the clearly best skill to max if you want to clear camps, would be a good way to create a tradeoff between clearing power and ganking power for Sejuani . Right now, the only way we can build her is for ganking power, and then we complain about her bad clears.

If I'm going to take a stab at a W rework, here's what I'd propose: -decreased AP scaling, increased health scaling -decreased duration -decreased cooldown

Something like a 2 second duration and 4 second cooldown (that starts after the duration ends), with some reduction in damage output to compensate, would enable Sejuani to use W twice per camp, thus making it a clearly superior farming button as compared to E. The health scaling part is intended to reduce the pain of building her tanky in terms of her ability to clear; would have to test for balance in terms of lategame teamfights as that was a pain point before her last nerfs.

To be clear, the design goal for me is to enable Sejuani to max W first for a clearing-oriented playstyle or E first for powerful ganks at the cost of weak clears. Not really trying to buff the current Sejuani playstyle, just provide more options in the kit.

WhiteGuyWannaBeNov 17, 20141 votes

I play her primarily as a support. She's a little weak early and her mana cost is a bit high, but as long as you take health regen runes its usually not too tough in lane and her team-fight potential is ridiculous. If bot lane has a lot of poke potential I'll take Doran's Shield bringing my health regen up to 5/sec and then taunt them all throughout laning phase, sometimes to the point where they'll completely ignore my half health ADC in a crazed attempt to dive turret and kill me.

As jungle I go Quill Coat and Spirit Stone, eventually building into spirit of the ancient Golem. This allows me to stay in the jungle indefinitely by regenerating massive amounts of health and mana from the camps and allowing me to solo the new dragon at level 7 or 8 or the old dragon at level 5.

ChortleNov 17, 20141 votes

I would imagine that level 5 dragon clear would take FOREVER no?

I usually max E first for hella ganks and in-turn causes my dragon pressure to be relatively low since I can't clear it by myself.

I end up having to snowball a lane then have them come help with dragon.

WhiteGuyWannaBeNov 17, 20142 votes

As jungle I level W and E equally to boost clear times and still provide decent ganks. When soloing drag it certainly takes long enough that if they have a ward there could be trouble but it doesn't take much longer then a Udyr or Fid solo and NO ONE expects a sej to solo drag. Even if the river is warded you can hop over the back to grab it and then jump back over once you are done and the enemy team will have no idea when you took it.

After drag I just have to clear all my minor camps (and with spirit stone your clear speed is pretty fast) to regen my health and be ready to start ganking again. If your lanes are being pushed and you have good gank opportunities your build and skill path is certainly better, if everything isn't perfect though spirit stone sej allows much more diversity. Because you are always full health you can invade the enemy jungle at will and then escape with ease with your wall dash should you be found. Spirit Stone Sej goes where she pleases when she pleases.

SukishooNov 17, 20141 votes

I've always liked her as a Tanky Jungler but have played her as a support sometimes, which can be fun too.

Usually take item 3117 item 3207 item 3068 item 3151 item 3025 item 3143 for the jungle to keep her pretty tank while having a good variety of damage.