I seems, a bit unfair that AP champions can get armor and more AP while an active that makes them untargetable and then clone their own Statikk Shiv.
While you're at it can we get and AD Rod of Ages too?
Mandang013 votesCan we get an AP Hydra? Or can we get AP crit or have AP actually help our autoattacks? Can we make spell vamp not suck compared to life steal? Maybe a decent source of %HP damage for APs? (Liandry's doesn't count)
It's almost like different stats are different...
xLegendary Troll2 votesAP Hydra - new item
AP crit 
on champions that can AP CRIT like 
AP auto attack
Spell vamp doesn't suck. You just don't get it because your favorite LC$ player doesn't get it.
AP % 
sucks? Have you ever used this on Vlad or anyone else that's tanky and can dish out sustained damage?
Mandang02 votesI don't think you know what Hydra does...the new item is AP's Shiv, not AP's Hydra
By AP crit I mean magic damage critting. I don't think Poppy's can anymore, but even if it does, it's the exception rather than the rule (and she'll lose it in the rework)
With your Nashor's bit and the above, you're missing the point that AP AS A STAT doesn't do the things AD does - that's the whole counterargument to the "wah, AD champs don't get Zhonya's"
Spell vamp is terrible, no one buys it outside of maybe Vlad and Morde.
%current HP DOT that can't stack is weak. The fact that Vlad is the champ you suggested for it tells me everything I need to know about how you understand the proc.
Lastly, some AP champs were designed around Zhonya's (Kennen, Morg, Fiddle) - that's why they get it and AD/AA champs don't.
xLegendary Troll1 votesSo Vlad's troll pool doesn't slow? Do yourself a favor and go liandris on Vlad.
Mandang01 votesThe problem isn't the CC, the problem is that you're taking a caster like Vlad, who has low cooldowns, and giving him a proc that can't stack. Doesn't matter how many times Vlad casts, he's only applying the Liandry's proc once. (All that not to mention the fact that Vlad is a mage that scales very well with stats, and you waste a lot of potential stat value paying for Liandry's proc).
Knalxz1 votesNothing you are saying makes sense TBH. Are you wanting ONLY AP abilities to crit or all abilities. I'm up for All abilities being able to crit but so far only AP abilities can crit I.E. Karthus and Soraka Q.
I don't know why you think spell vamp is so bad. If anything is the problem with Spell Vamp items its that most of them have build paths that are somewhat against mages and AP assassins. The only reason why someone might think spell vamp is terrible is because its balanced so that a mage with alot of AOE can't just sneeze and get back to full health in the middle of a teamfight. The health return reduction is a reasonable take away.
Single Target spell vamp abilites are really power.
One point that does make sense is the on Vlad.
IMO that it's just a bit wrong, atleast as a priority item.
Mandang01 votesWell, I don't think you can just look at which items they get without considering the differences between AD and AP champs. That's why I bring up the fact that AD can crit and scales autos and lifesteals (much better than AP spell vamps). Besides the obvious statement that "different is different", there's actually some practical reasons I bring these up: Have you ever tried laning against an AD champ once they have hydra? You just can't win anymore. You might not lose, but you're not winning - not in sustain, not in cs, not in kill potential (if they don't volunteer to die). Likewise, it's a ton easier to cs as an AD champion as any AD purchases make your lasthitting easier - AP is more reliant on spell bases and has to use resource to farm more often than ad champs do. Lifesteal I'll touch on in a bit, but it's a similar argument to the above two. Ofc, that was a mouthful, and I thought it'd be clear enough if I just showed that your argument works both ways - AP has some items AD would like, while AD has some items AP doesn't get.
Now for the reasons spell vamp's bad:
**1) All the completed items suck ** - By "all", I mean the 2, one of which is a hybrid item anyway, and the other is only viable on 2 or 3 champs. **2) Casters don't usually need 'burst heal' **- Bring up spell vamp and someone always mentions the horror of 'burst healing', which is a farce because the champs who can burst don't need the healing, and those who need the healing can't burst (especially when the sustain is most useful - in lane). Also, as always, remember that spell vamp is gated by cooldowns and the 1/3 AOE rule, while life steal has no such gates. 3) Those champs who do use the stat well get dumped on - Immobile, sustained damage champs don't see very much play for a good reason - because league of mobility+burst makes them irrelevant. So while Morde/Vlad might be good users, they're not a good choice in general. Said another way, come lategame, your healing probably doesn't matter much if you're dead before you get to use it (walking up to someone as Vlad or Morde).
youngjake931 votes{quoted} Nothing you are saying makes sense TBH. Are you wanting ONLY AP abilities to crit or all abilities. I'm up for All abilities being able to crit but so far only AP abilities can crit I.E. Karthus and Soraka Q.
Pantheon and Gangplank Q can crit. Garen E can crit. Nasus Q can technically crit, but I think it only gives bonus dmg to the attack damage portion. I'm sure there are others, but those are fairly common.
Knalxz1 votesTo be fair auto attack resets being able to crit just seems like a fairly balanced system, also Pantheon's abilties with heartseeker more more like Executes than your normal crits.
Gangplank's Q is pretty strong but its not over powered. Imagine if Nidalee's spears could crit or if Orianana's ultimate. AP abilities normally have such a high ratio that they'd get nerfed just for the sake of adding in a crit chance. Come to think of it, all abilities would get nerfed for the sake for critting ones.
Zarxis4 votesDepends. Do AP champions get to have an AP version of lifesteal? Hint: spell vamp doesn't count in its current, practically-useless form.
The Paulrus2 votesAgreed on both of these. Would also like to see an ability equivalent of 
(with a lower reflect %age, maybe 10%)
warpenguin5552 votesyou mean the Magikk Shiv?
Truly Prideful1 votesOnce AP gets applied to every autoattack at a 1:1 ratio, then sure. Not everyone needs access to the same things. It's not like AD champions are anywhere near bad right now.
Knalxz1 votesWith that logic if an AD champions abilites don't scale with AD then they should.
I.E. Abilites that now scale with AD
AD chacha slide E
AD Traps
AD Clones
Speechless
The reason i asked for these is because an AD assassin like Talon can't get out of a teamfight while...every AP assassin can just pop an active and just let their teammates wreck.
Not to mention that a Stacking health AD item like Rod of Ages is just fair. There is no stacking health for AD champions unless you want to pray that you have enough AP scaling on that one ability to RoA properly.
Truly Prideful1 votesI threw the comment in there as a joke because it's been discussed to death, but I'll bite. You want the AD Hourglass for Talon, which I understand. The problem is he isn't the only one that could build it. Other things, like Zed and such, would likely build it and use it to better effect. It's not just a matter of making an item to help one guy, because it has an effect on everything. They would be better off improving Talon himself, like that pointless E they stuck him with.
I'm not even on board with this AP Shiv item. If they're going to start cloning items for the other side, where do they stop? They would be better served coming up with something new rather than blurring the lines between the two sides. AP gets a Shiv, then they make an AD Hourglass, then an AP Hydra, then AD RoA, and so on. I'm not even completely against your argument, I just don't want to see both sides end up with cloned items all over the place.
Knalxz1 votesThe way I see it is,
If someone becomes OP because of the new itemization options they will be nerfed around them. I.E. DFG. Zed would get alot less power because of his CRAZY amount of safety same goes for Lee Sin.
I've looked at how it would affect everyone and the pluses outweigh the minuses to have and AD Hourglass or an AD RoA. Far more towards the RoA in plus over minus.
Yash Gautam1 votesI think that it's balanced how it is. If anything, I think that some champs should be nerfed a little (LeBlanc), but the items are fine.
OhOkYeah1 votes Lee Sin here,just saw you mentioned AD champs not having good items.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesIf AP champs can get the single handed most OP item in the game 
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesThis is actually the biggest reason I am against the new item... It may even work well, but I just don't think it contributes to strategic diversity as much as it could. There's an opportunity here to do something really wonderful, and I think Riot is missing out.
I'm sorry you are getting downvoted for it; to be fair, your wording is pretty confrontational. But I agree with the underlying message. I wish there was something more creative here that could be done instead.
Knalxz2 votesMy wording is confrontational. Eh, I've gotten that before.
As I'm sure you know, that is not my intention, its just how people seem to read my post. Typically people read with how they feel going into a thread like this so either way people were pissed.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesYeah, I agree. I typically only point it out when I agree with people and I still get that impression. :)
But you're still right. Absolutely.
Knalxz1 votesThanks
Star Of Love1 votesI think an AD zhonyas would not work because the stasis would be too strong against casters. AD champs can still rely on auto attacks if you use zhonya's during their abilities, while a mage does not have the same option.
Knalxz2 votesHmm, you make a very good point. It adds a certain level of fairness.
Ok i'm sold on the AD Zhonyas not being such a great idea.
Star Of Love1 votes:) im happy to help
