Shaco has to get buffed/changed.

N0t even Cl0ne··21 votes·8,662 views

First of all I wanna say why I made this post, It's because of Riot Platy from the support team who told me I should post all of my ideas about Shaco on here: https://twitter.com/RiotSupport/status/1144050036717838336

I got some ideas in general for the assassin class but Riot should talk to high elo assassin/Shaco players about this too.

Here are some of my suggestions:

  • Remove Duskblade from the game. It's a really toxic item for the game as the effect is now actually needed as an assassin to 1 shot people without being insanely fed, the Passive is really bad designed, it's unfun and involves no skill at all and in the end it just holds assassins back from getting buffs.

  • Buff Assassin item. When Duskblade is removed I would not focus on champs (Riot actually should), as they're too hard to balance around themselves and if their kit would be focused with changes they would just be overloaded as Riot really doesn't look at the whole picture. Some change ideas:

  • Nerf Anti-Assassin items Tabis and PD are disgusting to play against as a non fed assassin (ESPECIALLY SHACO as he provides no real damage for overkilling enemies like Rengar, Nerf rengar btw)

Youmuus Ghostblade 55 AD >>> 65 AD Active: 20% MS >>> 35% MS 45s >>> 60s (Better players will be rewarded, because they know how to use their items)

Edge of Night Change Build Path from: Ruby Crystal (400) + Serrated Dirk (1100) + Pickaxe (875) = Edge of night (3000 (625)) to Serrated Dirk (1100) + Caulfield's Warhammer (1100) = Edge Of Night (2900 (700)) 55 AD >>> 65 AD Lethality 18 >>> 21 Active: Spell Shield duration 7 >>> 4
Cooldown 40s >>> 25s and make it Melee only so ADC's (etc) can't abuse it.

The HP on Edge is really not needed, just make it an assassin and Melee only item, then you can give it AD. Spell Shield Duration rewards good players who use their Edge of Night while being invisible (Bruisers won't be able to abuse this as they would have to go instantly into the fight when activating it, so it should be fine, but ask other high elo assassin players about this), Cooldown getting lower is one thing I kinda wanted as you really just go into the fight and then you can't use it again when wanting to go in again (as example, as Shaco you wan't to go in and kill someone, then somehow get out and then you're kinda useless because you will get 1 shot from anything because they see your invis with a random AOE Spell, so it doesn't really kill shaco, but EON is very helpful in general.

(A suggestion from Extreme Person, which I'd like to say here, because I think it's needed even for AP Assassins as Champs like Fizz are just not viable right now) Buff Lich Bane! (Extreme Person just wanted a Lich Bane buff, but he didn't say what in particular so I will tell you what I think) Change Build Path from: Sheen (1100) + Aether Wisp (850) + Blasting Wand (850) = Lich Bane (3200 (450)) to Sheen (1100) + Ather Wisp (850) = Lich bane (2650 (700)) 80 AP >>> 50 AP

It costs just too much for it to be an early game item, so nerf the AP it gives but make it a lot Cheaper!

Maw of Malmortius Change build Path from: Hexdrinker (1300) + Caulfield's Warhammer (1100) = Maw of Malmortius (3250 (850)) to Hexdrinker (1300) + Serrated Dirk (1100) = Maw of Malmortius (3000 (650)) 50 AD >>> 60 AD 50 MR >>> 35 MR Remove CDR Add 18 Lethality Passive: Shield Power 350 >>> 400 Shield Duration 5s >>> 8s Cooldown 90s >>> 120s

As no one really goes Maw (never see it, not even against AP Assassins), I wanted to buff this item and make it an assassin item (Tanks got Steraks, Ranged got PD) so it's atleast useful when going against AP Champs as an assassin in Midlane instead of just rushing MR boots. Higher CD because otherwise it will just be abused against hard mage comps and AP Assassins will hate their lives like everyone does with PD.....

Phantom Dancer Revert it, no one asked for something like this (??????) If you don't want ADC's to get oneshot then nerf the damage in the game (Runes, etc) If not just increase CD from 90s >>> 120s Passive Shield 240 >>> 600 to 150 >>> 700

Ninja Tabis Ninja Tabis are one thing that makes the game completely unplayable as Shaco as your whole kit is based on AA's Change Passive so only Ranged AA's deal 12% less damage Armor 20 >>> 30

(Little suggestion from my personal side, not really about Assassins) Ionian Boots of Lucidity MS 45 Flat >>> MS 55 Flat Just Cooldown reduction is....bad (I guess so) so increasing MS is a good little buff for ppl who go (as example) Transcendence on Zed.

So now we come to the Shaco changes:

Rework Passive

My Suggestion: AA's and E'ing from behind deal(s) 12% more damage and when you AA from behind, you get a little Tiamat (like old Guinsoos), which will help Shaco's Clear very much as shaco is the ONLY Jungler who REALLY needs a Tiamat for Jungling without getting cucked by camps. Unless Tiamat doesn't get buffed (cost whise), which will probably not happen Shaco needs this Change.

Q

Revert the Damage so it's just a safe crit or enhanced Crit when you Crit by yourself. Duration is fine.

Everyone who says the Duration is too low in the early game is whether bad or is not even interested in balancing Shaco, they just want Shaco to have an OP Mechanic and be Viable without realizing that he would be perma banned then or Riot would decrease his early game Numbers so he would become completely not viable.

W

To be honest, I think boxes are pretty much fine, besides some other stuff. (A little suggestion from Veigar v2 and me: Let Boxes not be Smiteable as this destroys your 1v1 dueling in the early and pretty much makes the Kha'Zix Matchup disgusting.)

And the Box time to get armed should be decreased from 2s >>> 1.5s

Don't let Boxes be focused from Towers, they already deal less damage to Turrets.

Everyone who says making it invincible to AOE or just anything near that is once again whether bad or isn't interested in balancing Shaco, YES Shaco boxes are useless past 10 mins, BUT WOULD ANYONE LIKE AN AOE 1 SECOND FEAR IN A TEAMFIGHT? WOULD THAT BE BALANCED?

E

CD from 8s >>> 10/9/8/7/6 Change Damage from Phyiscal to Adaptive E AD Scaling from (+ 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 120% bonus AD) to (+ 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 120% AD) E AP Scaling from (+ 75% AP) to (60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100% AP) Remove Execute. Decrease Slow Duration on E Active from 3s >>> 1s Add another Passive: Shaco deals 5/7.5/10/12.5/15% More Damage (Adaptive) to Champs who got slowed by the E effect.

The CD being Increased in early and buffed on higher levels is rewarding good Shaco players who don't just go gank someone with Q and instantly E, it rewards players who don't instantly E and actually abuse the Passive and it rewards players who max E (You don't need 3+ Points in Q for early....., if you can't gank with 1 or 2 you're not allowed to cry, you just don't abuse the Jump for Ganking.......)

R

Remove 3 Boxes when exploding (Stalling, just bad idea for an assassin kit (who thought of this on an assassin?????)) Let Clone not get 1 hit by Turret (?) Increase the Clone Explosion Radius (that's a joke.) Increase DMG from 200 / 300 / 400 >>> 300 / 450 /600 Let the Clone not just walk around when Shaco dies, make it like Tibbers, the Clone goes on the Champ who killed him.

This is pretty much it for this Post, please start a discussion about Shaco and AD Assassins in general so riot will actually look at them and Buff/change them!

(PS: riot if you wan't to ask Shaco players about buffing/Changing Shaco, please do not go and ask people who build triforce and cry about Damage. Go to Veigar v2, TKP Stefan, Zaro or ShacoTime, (I'd always help you :^))

And Riot Games, if you read this, atleast try some things like the Passive on PBE, you will see it will be very useful and hopefully a good change (Let's pray you guys won't make it OP)

Edit: forgot +10 AD on EON

Edit 2: Maw MR from 55 >>> 35 MR and Pen on E removed, just more dmg.

Edit 3: Made a new Post which regards Shaco on his own and how to buff/fix him in this elo without changing any items/runes: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/hh1cEYYZ-shaco-has-to-get-changedbuffed-v2-shaco-only

59 Comments

Daddy Ants7 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-27T05:39:21.942+0000)

Ninja Tabis Ninja Tabis are one thing that makes the game completely unplayable as Shaco as your whole kit is based on AA's Change Passive so only Ranged AA's deal 12% less damage Armor 20 >>> 30

Phantom Dancer Revert it, no one asked for something like this (??????) If you don't want ADC's to get oneshot then nerf the damage in the game (Runes, etc) If not just increase CD from 90s >>> 120s Passive Shield 240 >>> 600 to 150 >>> 700

Uhm. No.

We do not need to be giving indirect buffs to Assassin's.

ESPECIALLY not to Zed, Talon, Rengar and Kha'Zix.

N0t even Cl0ne3 votes

That's the problem with my Suggestions, all those suggestions are around duskblade and Shaco, I can't suggest or either won't suggest changes on other assassins as I don't play those champs, Riot has to ask high elo players who play K6, Rengar, Talon, Zed, etc how to balance them then.

Exin03 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-27T09:56:23.565+0000)

That's the problem with my Suggestions, all those suggestions are around duskblade and Shaco, I can't suggest or either won't suggest changes on other assassins as I don't play those champs, Riot has to ask high elo players who play K6, Rengar, Talon, Zed, etc how to balance them then.

you write that riot dont see whole picture and then you make same mistake and even admit it. Lethality items isnt something exclusively used by assasins and other champions use them not as top builds but is not uncommon (lethality mf, garen, pantheon,...) ap verions same deal, then buffing assassins survivabilty and nerf AD defense for others. Your changes will hit much more then shaco and create tons of other problems, also you cannot remove item a distribute his power budget to another core build because they hit todays full build power one item sooner with one open slot for whatever.

N0t even Cl0ne3 votes

with the removal of duskblade and EON changes the only lethality item people could buy is Youmuus, and I think thats kinda fine, I just think riot has to make another Assassin item.

Btw not removing/reworking duskblade is just dumb at this point, every assassin goes and has to go it, it's obvious that Duskblade is the only reason why riot can't buff assassins bcs they would be too op with Dusk, removing dusk would lead to better gameplay, more item flexibility and would give assassins room to be buffed

Exin03 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T12:22:58.038+0000)

with the removal of duskblade and EON changes the only lethality item people could buy is Youmuus, and I think thats kinda fine, I just think riot has to make another Assassin item.

Btw not removing/reworking duskblade is just dumb at this point, every assassin goes and has to go it, it's obvious that Duskblade is the only reason why riot can't buff assassins bcs they would be too op with Dusk, removing dusk would lead to better gameplay, more item flexibility and would give assassins room to be buffed

I dont know man i look at some tier lists and outside nidalee and ekko are assassins mainly in S, A, B tiers it looks like thei are in no need of buffs but opossite. Another thing is pubstomper effect like it or not or iam not against you or your shaco but they are inherently more toxic as lower elo you go and buffing will have trickle down effect messing even more cesspool that is now for noobs, new players and casuals. I get it your main is wreck and you dont like but this game need more urgent fixing then another assassins rework otherwise you get League of assassins.

N0t even Cl0ne2 votes

I literally only talk abt AD Assassins and Shaco is already a pisslow abuser so that won't really change anything and riot shouldn't balance around casual players who play what is fun or what they like, they aren't OTP's or meta players.

Exin03 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T15:10:18.887+0000)

I literally only talk abt AD Assassins and Shaco is already a pisslow abuser so that won't really change anything and riot shouldn't balance around casual players who play what is fun or what they like, they aren't OTP's or meta players.

you are right they are not but they are ones paying this show you cannot just always ignore them also your changes are not directed strictly to top levels of play they hit everything from bottom to top and not only assassins or shaco alone and there is another thing when even well though changes dont have desired effect, breaking everything else while having little to non effect to desired target. And https://champion.gg/champion/Shaco/Jungle?&league=platplus what exactly is his problem? He is not performing bad by any metrics.

N0t even Cl0ne2 votes

ahh jeeeeeeeez, my changes reward better players and WR doesn't mean anything as only OTP's play him or why did Ryze had to get reworked with negative WR? You can try out Shaco it's awful

Exin01 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T15:34:36.429+0000)

ahh jeeeeeeeez, my changes reward better players and WR doesn't mean anything as only OTP's play him or why did Ryze had to get reworked with negative WR? You can try out Shaco it's awful

i never mention WR and there are more stats than WR in vacuum. Even if it looks like, iam not against your changes per se. Iam for deleting duskblade, iam for changing items if its needed and i am for shaco rework but iam not for doing it all. Remove dusk and buff other items but dont nerf tabis and dance, change shaco but dont change items. pick something, dont be greedy

N0t even Cl0ne1 votes

Shaco is literally the only Assassin that really gets cucked by tabis, no other AD Assassin gets countered by it that much as shaco does, so why not just make it for range AA?

N0t even Cl0ne1 votes

A lot of ppl hate Tabis bcs the effect is just bad designed, not even shaco players

Meteora7076 votes

shaco mains circlejerk trying to get their busted champ buffed lmao

N0t even Cl0ne2 votes

Is this some kind of joke

Meteora7073 votes

r/shacomains mass upvoting shitty threads and spamming the rioter that responded to their screeching lmao

SAILOR SATANA6 votes

Shaco has one of the most toxic kit in the entire game. Atm, his 50,41% w/r on a champ like him is TOO good if anything. First he needs to be reworked and stripped of one of the most absurdly broken skills in the entire game, THEN we can talk about his eventual performance issues.

N0t even Cl0ne4 votes

So I get ur point of Shaco being a toxic champ because of his design, but what is with every new champ/rework? Overloaded kits, too much dmg/sustain, all the time a new ability or mechanic no one wished for and how thefuk is Shaco TOO GOOD? wow the champ is good for smurfing because it's one of many pisslow abusers, is that anything insane? NO

SAILOR SATANA4 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-06-27T19:35:51.607+0000)

So I get ur point of Shaco being a toxic champ because of his design

Then there is nothing to add. Super toxic champs should ALL be on the weak side is not gutted entirely (and I repeat: his win rate is over 50% anyway) until reworked, period.

but what is with every new champ/rework?

Not at all, many reworks vastly improved the targeted champs, and very few entirely missed the mark. Don't be like the standard, mindless, boarder-zombie that talk shit about everything Riot does without any kind of real understanding, please. Side (but important) note: "OP" and "toxic" are NOT the same thing, not even remotely: a champ can be OP cause his numbers are too good and still have an healthy kit, another one can be very bad and still toxic cause of a very poorly designed kit.

how thefuk is Shaco TOO GOOD?

I didn't meant that is too good in general (but again: his win rate is BETTER THAN AVERAGE so, by definition...good), I meant that is too good...to be THAT fucking toxic, unfair, unfun. Again: first HARD rework him and get rid of the BS about hit kit, THEN let's give him some love IF needed.

NoPolishAllowed1 votes

Also shaco does not have a toxic kit, tell me why its toxic, is his r too broken? Its just a clone that autos and he fools you

SAILOR SATANA1 votes

{quoted}

Also shaco does not have a toxic kit

AHAHAHAAAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAH

NoPolishAllowed1 votes

Whats funny? Ur complaining about shaco who does ACTUALLY NO DAMAGE after he was nerfed 50x, yet before the rework he was twice as strong, and everyone complained about him being USELESS not op, he was fucking trash in high elo you had to be the smartest player in the game to do anything. And you are probably some stupid new player from season 8 who only cares about reworking everyones fucking champions and mega hentai skins, what can i say to you, what do you main malphite? If you refuse to spend 75 gold to counter a champ, because you r LAZY, dont fking complain about it being broken. Before the rework, nobody complained. Now you complain, like what the fuck man?

SAILOR SATANA1 votes

{quoted}

Whats funny? Ur complaining about shaco who does ACTUALLY NO DAMAGE

didn't complain about his damage, I stated a simple fact: his kit is BEYOND broken ( btw: broken /= OP) and toxic and, thus, Shaco can't be allowed to be really good until that's properly addressed

And you are probably some stupid new player from season 8

So... Since I am playing since beta it means that, by your logic, I am automatically right, mh? Like...don't you feel embarrassed to use that kind of "reasoning"?

NoPolishAllowed1 votes

( ok i just checked that you dont even have a rank, you arent even a dedicated player, and riot will probably listen to you anyways XDDDD, hit silver then speak )

SAILOR SATANA1 votes

{quoted}

( ok i just checked that you dont even have a rank

Bud, this is my 11th or 12th account, I don't even remember exactly. I played since beta, and i surpassed your peak rank already in s3 (and reached gold in s2, back when being gold meant being in roughly in the best 3%, not the 30% of today). Pro tip: if you REALLY wanna be so lame to try to undermine others based on ranks, try to reach a good ranking yourself before speaking, lol.

MrHaZeYo4 votes

You can't buff One (Assassin Items) and nerf the others (Anti Assassin item) Otherwise you'd throw it way off.

N0t even Cl0ne2 votes

You have to buff other Assassin items when riot removes Duskblade......

MrHaZeYo3 votes

So do that and see where they land.

ArcticDragons2 votes

{quoted}

So do that and see where they land.

Every AD assassin is balanced around Duskblade being busted. You have to compensate it being removed somehow.

Tormentula1 votes

you completely missed what he's saying;

you shouldn't buff assassin items AND nerf tank items. One or the other is all they need to do. Just buff assassin items, see where they land, adjust more based on performance statistics.

l MrD l3 votes

i think the maw build patch originally had dirk instead of caufield

I dont like this change simply because assasins can abuse it as a rush item vs any AP mid .... the hexdrinker effect is already strong vs AP combined with dirk its too punishing which is why i believe they changed it

Everything else though seems good o_O

1M Gold Udyr XD3 votes

Shaco has to be removed from this game. Too much utility on top of too much damage.

Exin04 votes

[{quoted}](name=AbdulQader Udyr ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-27T15:23:24.957+0000)

Shaco has to be removed from this game. Too much utility on top of too much damage.

Invisibility should be removed from game its badly managed and nigh uncounterable.

ChaosReyn3 votes

I dont really feel like you're getting the point in the part where people who build defensively are tired of being one shot anyway, despite building defensively.

Like, I get that assassins should be high burst, and I get that they should have ways of ignoring some defenses...but they shouldn't be walking up to a 3 armor item'd top lane and killing them with a combo and two autos.

Assassins are supposed to be about precision target priority...instead, they're free to just mutilate any one target, no matter who they are, pretty much at their leisure. Tanks are supposed to counter assassins, and currently, they really don't. Other than Kench, but let's be real, that's cause he's going full apeshit right now.

They need to have a good look at how to balance the attack and defense a bit more, and make a new rule that helps tanks rightfully counter assassins again, without making them unbearable to damage dealers that aren't burst assassins. They should honestly look into runes more too - the offensive lines have far too many defensive options.

N0t even Cl0ne1 votes

tbh the game is just fucked bcs of meta, runes and all the new reworks/champs, riot just fucked up so hard that there is way too much dmg/sustain and shields that some champs are OP bcs of their viable dmg and some champs like Shaco are just dogshit bcs he has no overkill potential unless he is 20/0 at 15 mins

HyVee2 votes

I thought shaco was AP?

N0t even Cl0ne2 votes

Is this some kind of joke LUL

HyVee3 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0t even Cl0ne,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26zZiJv8,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-06-27T16:04:04.433+0000)

Is this some kind of joke LUL

No AP Shaco it the true Shaco. I think ur playing him wrong brother

N0t even Cl0ne2 votes

mb then :^)

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

I dont think a few items need to be removed in order to get the game working.

I Would really like to think, True damage could be reworked so that it becomes an assassin function. So True damage doesn't become Pierce damage. But a Damage modifier. that ignore Shields and Damage reductions.

So Physical damage as True damage/ Magical damage as true damage.

So Lets say Dusk Blade has that. So something like Your 3 inital autos will deal true damage as physical. Shacos back stabs can deal true damage. Zeds mark can deal true damage.

Or another type of item thats an utility item for assassins that disable Summoners and Actives for a short period on the first initial target.

CatnipTerminator1 votes

So, is it this time of the year again where Shaco mains crawl out of their caves to ask for 20 different buffs?

Cool, should schedule it for next year :v

NoPolishAllowed1 votes

Ok are you serious? First of all he has a winrate above 50% because only SERIOUS one tricks play him that have played him for 4 years or more, i used to be diamond every season and after the rework i quit, came back, and im gold 2 He does NO DAMAGE. And stop saying he is op or some shit, because his q actually gives you a 80 damage bonus on a auto and the e isnt even an ability XD You newer players just complain and they keep ruining the game, 80% of every player in the game at decent elo knew how to counter shaco, its pink wards, noone called him op except for noob bonobos who couldnt ward or use their brains, again, HE DOESNT NEED A REWORK, STOP RUINING THE GAME, REVERT STEALTH STEALTH IS BROKEN NOW AFTER ITS REWORK, NOT BEFORE

TakaDama1 votes

I'll post a response to Shaco changes, but first:

Toxic does not mean high damage. Toxic means so annoying that no matter how weak or strong the champion is you would rather play against anyone else. Teemo is a classic example with blind, stealth, and traps that slow and deal DoT.

Shaco has stealth that doubles as a blink, he has traps that fear and deal DoT as long as they are up, he has a slow (or had a slow) that could be used on both auto-attacks and a point-and-click ability, and he also has a clone that actually deals damage. Basically, he is a more toxic champion than Teemo outside of not having a blind.

Anyhow, for a rework:

Passive - I would actually just have this deal more extra damage based, but over time (like Talon's but with different requirements) and have the cooldown scale with Shaco's level. The extra damage overall should make clearing most of the jungle easier outside of wolves, raptors, and krugs.

Q - Just make the cooldown scale down, and maybe have it refresh the cooldown for passive instead of a rather blunt auto-crit. Nothing has stopped Lucian players from putting two or three points into E before maxing Q; what is stopping Shaco players?

W - I would actually like to see an ammo system for these tbh, but not much to say here.

E - This honestly just needs cohesion as far as its scaling goes, and possibly a weakened version for its passive version while on cooldown.

R - I would actually change the functionality to be similar to Heimerdinger's Ult. Like after pressing R, your spells are modified to produce very easily dispatched clones for a certain duration: R then Q could act like a Neeko W, R then W could make a clone that dissipates into a JitB, R then E could make a clone appear right next to the enemy hit and apply E's passive slow. Granted this would probably need to be balanced heavily, but the intent here is to focus on Shaco's in-lore identity as a murderous trickster--someone who enjoys toying with an enemy before killing them.

bluefire mark 21 votes

dUsKbLaDe iS oVeRpOwErEd, meanwhile places ward, and or uses positioning skills. Oh what's that? It wears off while in vision? Huh. What's that? It's essential to ad assasins right now? They have very little damage and item options? Hm.

ModEvangele1 votes

Nami Locking a necro.

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