This way to the Z.A.C, little dude

BeZaggin··4 votes·484 views

I've been a zac main for a really long time, and I really wanted to weigh in on the zac changes.

Before I do, I want to say that I do understand where riot was coming from with this rework, and I'll strive to be as fair as I can be. but without further ado...

lets start with the E changes. I think I get why riot reduces the stun timer; zac shouldn't be able to guarantee that any target he lands on with his e will be guaranteed to get hit by a fully charged ult. That'd just be too broken. Still, it severely impacted his dueling potential, and I think that needs to be addressed. Zac's most critical strength in 1v1's, or at least close 1v1's, was his ability to throw down all of his spells at once and use the stun from E to run and get some blobs. That's really just not practical anymore; you have to commit to either killing them in one go or stalling for time, not both. If that was intended then fine, but I think it's worth considering.

I don't really want to weigh in on the ult. I can tell it's high skill; a zac should re-assess where he should aim his ult with every passing milisecond. If only the tanks are left in it you should drop them away from the fight, if the carries are the only ones you got you should deliver them to your team. Much like a bard ult, you need to consider the effect of every champion caught in it and that's cool. Because of this skill ceiling, I feel a little nervous about every observation that I'm making here; if the ult can be perfected, it could make zac an enormous high-elo balance problem. I don't really want to comment on how it could be changed, but riot should keep an open mind to ways that this spell could be more synnergystic with the rest of zac's kit.

Zac's new q is bad and needs to be buffed. I get what you guys were thinking; it's like a blitz hook, which makes blitzcrank good even though it's his only spell. But it's not like a blitzcrank hook. A lot of the time, landing the q and autoattacking something just isn't plausable. If there aren't any minions nearby you can't AA, but if there are too many minions you can't land the skillshot. What's worse, because having to deal with the dynamics of two constantly moving objects is really really hard, you never really know where the targets are going to go when you proc it on two champions, which is a minor complaint, but I really felt like I should have been more rewarded when I managed to hit two champs at once. It's not usually an easy thing to do, especially when you take target selection into account. I would strongly consider upping the damage potential of this ability, giving zac a second q cast instead of an auto, or something else drastic. This ability alone makes me not want to play zac.

8 Comments

Acheron161 votes

{quoted} Still, it severely impacted his dueling potential, and I think that needs to be addressed.

This is the flaw of your reasoning. Tanks were changed to be good in larger groups with this update, not when dueling.

They were changed to be highly disruptive in fights (which Zac Q change does), do less ambient damage (less guaranteed "cheap" damage) and do better when playing well, worse when otherwise (item changes).

zlumpy1 votes

Sometimes on a tank you just end up dueling though. It doesn't really seem fair to Zac players if someone stumbles on him in the jungle for his only response to just always sling shot away like a coward. He is a massive tough blob of goo sometimes you just wanna mix it up with people.

PeepingPeafowl1 votes

Zac was a dueling tank, he had to be because he was a jungler. If riot wanted to make a tank better at fighting in groups they should have picked someone else. Not gutted someones playsytle that they themselves said was a modern kit and only in need of touch ups.

Acheron161 votes

{quoted}

Zac was a dueling tank, he had to be because he was a jungler. If riot wanted to make a tank better at fighting in groups they should have picked someone else. Not gutted someones playsytle that they themselves said was a modern kit and only in need of touch ups.

I dont see how.

Q-AoE damage and CC W- AoE damage E-engage and AoE damage and CC R-Aoe CC

Doesnt look like a duelist kit to me

PeepingPeafowl1 votes

He had high base damages and all of his ability's were offensive, he has no defensive skills unlike other tanks.

Also his ult did a ton of damage, I have no idea why your just calling it Aoe CC.

I'm guessing you didn't play him before rework

Acheron161 votes

{quoted}

He had high base damages and all of his ability's were offensive, he has no defensive skills unlike other tanks.

Also his ult did a ton of damage, I have no idea why your just calling it Aoe CC.

I'm guessing you didn't play him before rework

I'm guessing you have no idea of how balance works in this game: tanks and junglers in general have high base stats, so they can jungle at all. Zac's main gameplay hook has always been the CC and long range engage he brings, never the damage. And not all tanks need shields or other defensive skils, his defense comes from the in combat sustain he has via blobs.

So, this rework gave him more CC and a more controlable ult, nerfing his ambient damage to avoid the classic situation of "E into enemy team and press all buttons", so in that aspect, it has succeeded.

He may be a bit weak in terms of raw damage, but that's a numbers problem, not a kit/ability design one.

PeepingPeafowl1 votes

{quoted}

I'm guessing you have no idea of how balance works in this game: tanks and junglers in general have high base stats, so they can jungle at all.

Now he doesn't. Guessing you didn't think that one through.

Zac's main gameplay hook has always been the CC and long range engage he brings, never the damage.

His gameplay hook has always been his E (which has been gutted) His damage is what allowed him to be one of the few viable tank junglers

And not all tanks need shields or other defensive skils, his defense comes from the in combat sustain he has via blobs.

Name another primary tank that does not have a self defensive ability. His sustain was nerfed both in jungle and in teamfights due to the Q cool down nerf and the new ults unreliability of generating blobs. Not to mention that healing is the most easily countered form of self defense.

So, this rework gave him more CC and a more controlable ult, nerfing his ambient damage

You have no idea how laughable this is, pre-rework Zac had an guaranteed ult in any direction you wanted if you landed E, and even if you didn't you would never miss his ult, you would just miss out on the better positioning. His source of ambient damage was also untouched (well, technically nerfed because of less blobs). You haven't played pre-rework Zac.

He may be a bit weak in terms of raw damage, but that's a numbers problem, not a kit/ability design one.

Its clear at this point his rework has been a disaster

Unless they make E into Ult a sure thing that cannot be flashed out of, his new ult is inferior to his old one, and even if they did do that (which they really don't want to apparently) his new ultimate would still be worse at escaping than his old one.

Thankfully the Zac dev went on reddit and said he wants to add max hp scaling damage on Zacs Q so hopefully the damage in his kit is going to be restored, and even outside of the ult, so that's exciting.

Ralanr1 votes

Zac wasn't a dueling tank. His high base AoE abilities were to help him clear (his defensive mechanic was his sustain).

His new Q is really awkward. Most of the time I end up hitting the same target twice. I think the tether indicator is mistakenly assumed to be the range or your next AA, at least I assumed as much because I kept getting angry at how I couldn't hit someone with my second part of the Q.

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