Ivern's Build Path is in Danger

Noxxi··64 votes·4,567 views

Dear Riot, With the upcoming changes to support items (Only taking a jungle or support item) i worry about how it will affect Ivern. Considering that the current Jungle Items enchants (Warrior, Cinderhulk, Runic Echos & Bloodrazer) are solely based around combat effectiveness it leaves ivern in a bit of a sad state. Players are forced into a situation where he needs Hunters's Talisman for the bonus exp in jungle but are buying Frost Queens Claim or Eye of the Watcher for the effectiveness they need as a supportive jungler that another champion would otherwise would get from a jungle enchanted item.

The current problems that the jungle enchants have in relation to Ivern's kit in my opinion are as follows. Warrior - The only benefit Ivern gets from taking this is the CDR the AD is otherwise useless on him considering he is 100% AP Scaling. Doesn't Fit Ivern's Kit. Bloodrazor - Is very neesh and is only used by a few junglers who's kits only revolve around auto attacking. Ivern's kit isn't based around his w passive but instead protecting his allies making the Attack Speed based enchant a dead purchase. Doesn't fit Ivern's Kit. Cinderhulk - The problem with this is that Ivern doesn't build nearly tanky enough to get enough use out of the % bonus HP or the AOE damage passive considering he will most likely be oneshot if he jumps into the enemy team. HP is nice but the bonus HP doesn't scale well with his current build path and the AOE damage doesn't fit Ivern's Kit. Runic Echos - This is probably the most fitting item out of the four options, the AP helps to scale up his abilities and the % move speed is nice for getting around the map. The downside to this though is quite troublesome, Ivern can't Proc the "Echo" passive on jungle camps due to his passive "Friend of the Forest" which means he can't get the 15% miss mana back after it hit's a large monster. The big problem of runic echos on Ivern however is comparing it to Ardent Censer. Here are the stats.

Runic Echos gives - 60 AP, 7% Movement Speed & a 60(+10% AP) magic damage proc + 2 Wards, Chilling Smite or Challenging Smite. It costs 2625g Ardent Censer gives - 60 AP, 8% Movement Speed, 50% mana regen, 10% CDR, 10% Heal & Shield Bonus & 10-30% Attack Speed + 5-20 on hit magic damage based on level for both you and your ally. It costs 2300g.

Going forward into patch 8.2 i will probably be taking Tracker's Knife with the Runic echos enchant after i buy a Ardent Censer but i feel as though the loss of eye of the watcher or Frost Queens Claim is a big hit to Ivern's Gold generation considering he only gets 80g from Krugs instead of the 160g any other jungler would get and his vision control with the loss of 2 extra wards or the spooky ghosts.

Please keep quirky champions in mind when moving forward with development of your game. I love this game and some of the more quirky champions you make and would hate to see them left by the way side as the game moves forward.

Yours Faithfully Noxxi "Hunters on the prowl! Run and hide!" - The Green Father

43 Comments

Prison AnaI34 votes

I thought finishing a jungle item on ivern is a bannable offence

AmazoX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SQR Poison,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1OkZe0pv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-13T01:19:36.546+0000)

I thought finishing a jungle item on ivern is a bannable offence

HAHAHA

Ahri Baka1 votes

Wait what ?I don't play Ivern do idk , only once when he was in rotation , I was 18/3 with suppport items , but completed the jungle item after reading your comment , I think yeah completing a jungle item seems trolling since he has hi passive xD

IvernBramblefoot6 votes

[{quoted}](name=SQR Poison,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1OkZe0pv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-13T01:19:36.546+0000)

I thought finishing a jungle item on ivern is a bannable offence

Yeah, seriously, who the fuck completes a jungle item when they play me? That's some stupid bullshit.

Revlak Javik1 votes

I will miss the item 2045 item 3107 item 3190 combo for mid game

GudLunchHavFries1 votes

[{quoted}](name=SQR Poison,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1OkZe0pv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-13T01:19:36.546+0000)

I thought finishing a jungle item on ivern is a bannable offence

*offense

Spelling is important kids.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

{quoted}

*offense

Spelling is important kids.

That isn't a spelling issue. That's a difference in spelling between regions.

The US spelling is "offense".

The British spelling (used everywhere outside of the United States) is "offence".

LordGeovanni1 votes

In other words actual way to spell Offence Butchered but widely accepted way to spell in 1 country Offense.

Ok sure but why1 votes

Well, they're both from NA

checkmate

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1OkZe0pv,comment-id=0001000300000001,timestamp=2018-01-14T00:27:34.337+0000)

Well, they're both from NA

checkmate

Canada is part of North America and uses the British spellings.

Prison AnaI1 votes

{quoted}

*offense

Spelling is important kids.

Canadian spelling is offence nice try tho

AmenPerson12 votes

Simple fix, let Ivern's passive boost the amount of EXP he gets from Jungle Camps for being there friend.

He can learn more if his friends are still alive.

But seriously, it would seem to help him a lot, since he would be able to just start a Support item instead of a Jungle item.

Although, that's just the idea of a player who doesn't really play Ivern.

Spoofghoul2 votes

i like this idea

since it only affects ivern really making him work without a jungle item seems like the better solution then trying to make all the jungle items fit him

Anatera7 votes

I don't think anyone at Riot plays Ivern.

T4underbolt7 votes

Jesus no. No more Ivern jungle. This game has enough shields and heals from janna/lulu already. They already shield their adcs for twice their health and heal to full in instant. Not again double shield ardent or whatever support item in jungle meta.

IvernBramblefoot6 votes

{quoted}

Jesus no. No more Ivern jungle. This game has enough shields and heals from janna/lulu already. They already shield their adcs for twice their health and heal to full in instant. Not again double shield ardent or whatever support item in jungle meta.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? OH, OKAY, NO IVERN JUNGLE? HERE, HAVE A HEAPING DISH OF

KHA'ZIX RENGAR XIN ZHAO

EVERY GAME ALL GAME LONG. THAT'S SO MUCH FUN NOT EVEN BEING ABLE TO RESPOND AS THEY 1-3 SHOT YOU. GREAT CALL T4UNDERBOLT.

do you realize that Ivern moves at 325 MS as opposed to Kha'zix who moves at 350 MS? this is a seriously ignorant opinion, T4underbolt. Do you know how weak his shields are before he has any ap? do you know how weak ivern is level 1-2, and before level 6? Clearly you have no idea whatsoever. Clearly you live in a tunnel world where all that matters is OH MY GOD SHIELDS, OH SHIT, SHIELDS, FUCK SHIELDS ARE SO BAD. you know what's bad? getting one shot by some fucker who just jumps in or jumps out. like Kha'zix. Shields aren't the problem, you brilliant rocket scientist.

T4underbolt2 votes

I dont deny that khazix rengar and xin are problemtic. They are completely out of balance right now and need proper nerfs across the board, but all the other assassins or anything else is unable to kill anyone if enemy has lulu/janna/soraka or any champion that can abuse broken support items with heals/shields power. We already had this dumb meta of ivern shielding and healing people along with lulu/janna/soraka. It was the most miserable and broken time in the game.Just run around and press shield. This game was turned into casual fiesta for low skills, we dont need another braindead champ running around making it impossible to achieve anything or pressure enemy.

Blåbæret1 votes

Ivern is cancer. I remember when he was strong; he's by far the worst kind of cancer to face.

Noxxi3 votes

I never understand people's obsession with complaining about champions that heal and shield. They are a healthy part of the game. if they didn't exist assassins would just be free to kill whoever they want without any risk to themselves not succeeding and trust me if that was the case we'd never hear the end of it from the ADC mains! It's never fun to lose all your HP in under a second.

IvernBramblefoot1 votes

{quoted}

Ivern is cancer. I remember when he was strong; he's by far the worst kind of cancer to face.

he isn't strong anymore, so he's not cancer. You're acting like a battered housewife, except Ivern isn't a 280 pound car mechanic in a wife beater. He's a fruity-ass tree guy who loses more duels than he wins who is generally completely dependent on his team to accomplish anything outside of counter-jungling.

Noxxi1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Harsh, but you make good points

Tèrminus5 votes

They're going to add another item with FQC's active that's tuned more towards supports, so I assume Ivern will just buy that instead of FQC.

Noxxi7 votes

Probably but that still doesn't solve the problem of talisman removing an item slot because you need the exp. Someone on reddit suggested adding the extra exp to his passive.

Fefnil2 votes

Well, you could still sell it after you reach lv 18, or maybe even at 16, to free the slot, no?

Noxxi1 votes

The problem there is that no other jungle does that, it only provides the mana regen in the jungle. It would be so much better if Ivern could have a forbidden idel in the slot it instead

Lenny from5 votes

I think its fine that every nook and cranny of the game isnt "solved", like ivern getting talisman for exp+regen.

The Letter H1 votes

{quoted}

They're going to add another item with FQC's active that's tuned more towards supports, so I assume Ivern will just buy that instead of FQC.

They said the same thing with talismain and are thinking of giving an item mountain's active as well.

Ok sure but why1 votes

Didn't they take the active off a different item in the past just to fit the FQC? Now they're going back?

Jesus is Savior3 votes

Just buy machete or talisman and sell it later. I do it on Master Yi all the time (I go full crit build). It's not even as bad as it used to be - junglers used to do this in season 3 and season 4, back when machete didn't even give the full gold or exp amount from the monsters.

AwesomeGuyDj3 votes

Who finishes jg item on ivern. You can do it in some games but its not really needed.

69469238DEL12 votes

I forgot about this champion, good for you reminding people

Caretaker Jack1 votes

Bump Bard

Shendelzare11 votes

I dont understand what happened with ivern,immediatly upon his release he were playable with full AP items in jg and he was really good,he had nice dmg why are his main items support items now?

Emelie Cauchemar1 votes

I always enjoyed being 3 man dove with no minions at level 6 by Ivern because Daisy could for some reason eat 30+ turret shots at level 6. As an adc you basically just had to back and forsake your turret at 7 minutes because if you didn't Ivern would appear behind your turret and summon Daisy.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

IvernBramblefoot2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1OkZe0pv,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-01-13T15:23:02.148+0000)

I always enjoyed being 3 man dove with no minions at level 6 by Ivern because Daisy could for some reason eat 30+ turret shots at level 6. As an adc you basically just had to back and forsake your turret at 7 minutes because if you didn't Ivern would appear behind your turret and summon Daisy.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

yeah those days are over now. daisy doesn't even heal anymore.

Noxxi2 votes

And Ivern gains the aggro if Daisy attacks a champ

Emelie Cauchemar1 votes

{quoted}

yeah those days are over now. daisy doesn't even heal anymore.

Good. 'Cause I was running into way too many Nunu/Ivern players falling out of challenger bragging about how good they are and how trash we all were as they fed their asses off.

crispy661 votes

Thanks for the post

LordGeovanni1 votes

I go Ivern item 3027 item 1419 item 3020 item 3165 item 3124 either item 3089 or item 3091 or item 3115 . Vwa la the apc marksmen that everyone has been asking about. being a bad off support from the jungle with long as hell cooldowns never felt good to me even after they found the build 3 weeks after his release.

Iffy Jarl1 votes

I usually just sell the talisman when im finished with it If im gnna buy an item just for wards it's not gnna be a trackers Knife item 2045

Noxxi1 votes

But then you a very large amount of XP from jungle camps if your not level 18

Iffy Jarl1 votes

The amount of xp loss vs the amount of gold u lose from building a mostly useless item is worth it plus as ivern if your enemy's camps aren't part of your pathing you're doing it wrong

Camsaiga1 votes

Please do not hurt Ivern anymore, he can not take it. I know he is unpopular and people hate him since he counters their edgy assassin one shots but by doing this he will be massively delayed in power spike and I feel simply not worth it outside of more organized play. The game is better having diversity and Ivern (nunu) offer that for those of us who do not need to flex our epeen with shit like Khazix and Kayn.

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