What RIOT needs to understand about balance.

Logjam··10 votes·1,273 views

Mobility itself doesn't create an unbalanced game.

The vast majority of the issues in the game in regard to balance come down to two things.

  1. A champion can quickly go in to exchange damage without putting themselves at risk. Examples: Nidalee, Zed, Fizz, Kalista, Leblanc, Lee sin, Ahri (at various stages), Pre nerf Kassadin, NidaleeZed Fizz Kalista Leblanc LeeSin Ahri Kassadin

Take a look a Ahri as an example for this. Riot reduces her damage and gives her an increase to mobility from Q. As a result her winrate goes from roughly 51 percent to nearly 60 percent over night. A champion that is able to get in and deal damage is not actually at risk if they can just as easy get back out. The recent nerfs to Kassadin also show how important this concept is. Kassadin can now get in quickly but do to ramping mana costs and range reduction can no longer get back out. Combine this with the damage nerfs he has taken over time and as result he has been made nearly useless.

2.* A champion can quicly go in and reliably (such as on click) do so much single or multi target damage that there is little the opponent can do to react.* Release Xin zhao, Riven, Gnar, Lissandra, VI, Jarvan, pre Nerf Fiora, Pre nerf Akali, Katarina, Pre nerf WarwickXinZhao Lissandra Vi JarvanIV Fiora Akali Katarina Warwick RivenGnar

Warwick at the beginning of season 5 was a clear example of this. Use R to gapclose and explode the enemy champ before they can do anything to even react. You now are left with a 5vs4 and with the only penalty being that Warwick is lacking an ultimate for the fight to come. Early Xin zhao and katarina are also clear examples of this in that they get in and delete someone before they can even think to fight back. 0 Counter play.

Note that some of the worst Offenders are actually guilty of both of these issues and as a result become some of the high win rate/most toxic champions the game knows.

The solution is to look to healthy champions such as the current state of Diana or Aatrox. Both can get in and do significant damage however they must stay in and put themselves at real risk.

On the other hand If a champion is able to get in and out easily they must have their damage reduced significantly to compensate. An example of this would be Ezreal who is able to get in and out of combat fairly easily but must land successive skill shots to do significant damage to someone.

19 Comments

SEKAI15 votes

Mobility isn't unbalanced.

What's unbalanced is having champs mobile and do the exact same thing, hell even better or simply more than immobile champs. Which makes picking them immobile champs completely redundant and pointless, unless you are masochist by heart.

Advantages should have trade offs for that, not just more advantages for no reason at all, it just doesn't make sense.

Not to mention mobility is way valuable than just stat based stuff like resistance or damage, so idk what's wrong with their balance team in thinking giving mobile champs medium to high damage or strong cc is even acceptable to begin with.

Logjam1 votes

The tradeoffs are in the post. Read again plz

(put champions at risk, reduce damage if champions have mobility that goes both ways or are able to burst without a reaction)

SEKAI1 votes

Yes I know, engages should always be committed.

And that's very true.

My favourite to - go example of healthy champ would always be Yi personally though, I can say Diana is indeed a well balanced champ but I am not entirely sure about Talon but I see your point.

Decaedeus1 votes

I actually disagree. Assassins MUST have reliable disengages or their kit is inherently broken. Diana is the perfect example. Before, she was able to QRR (oneshot the carry) and TANK EVERYTHING while walking out easily. Now, she can QRR (maybe oneshot the carry) and then she dies immediately after because she has no reliable disengage. Her kit is very poorly designed.

Logjam3 votes

Mobility is not as valuable as you think Rammus has decent damage, strong cc, heaps of mobility, Why isn't he OP?

SEKAI6 votes

Because his mobility isn't instant, doesn't run across walls, nor is it reliable since you have to physically run the thing like a lite version of Sion's ulti. And can be interrupted mid run too.

BakedLotion3 votes

{quoted}

Mobility is not as valuable as you think Rammus has decent damage, strong cc, heaps of mobility, Why isn't he OP?

Because he got olaf'd when sheep started to bandwagon him for some reason, after some mofo played him in worlds. Even though he was never touched and considered the worst jungler in the game for years before

agbudar1 votes

{quoted}

Because he got olaf'd when sheep started to bandwagon him for some reason, after some mofo played him in worlds. Even though he was never touched and considered the worst jungler in the game for years before

he was good because everyone was playing ad champions and his kit inherently makes those champs make a run for their money

remember when zed was never complained about? yea thats because i taunted him for 3 seconds and people could blow him up same goes for fizz and kassadin back then (since those 2 actually need to get pretty close to make things work)

now people wanted to nerf him no one plays him anymore since 50% of his power was in his taunt. so you effectively reduced that by a third. and his power budget was already low to begin with.

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

he was good because everyone was playing ad champions and his kit inherently makes those champs make a run for their money

remember when zed was never complained about? yea thats because i taunted him for 3 seconds and people could blow him up same goes for fizz and kassadin back then (since those 2 actually need to get pretty close to make things work)

now people wanted to nerf him no one plays him anymore since 50% of his power was in his taunt. so you effectively reduced that by a third. and his power budget was already low to begin with.

The taunt nerf wasnt the one that killed him (that was like outta nowhere, since he wasnt complained about at ALL at that time, along with fiddle)

It was the powerball CD and the other thing a few patches ago.

agbudar1 votes

{quoted}

The taunt nerf wasnt the one that killed him (that was like outta nowhere, since he wasnt complained about at ALL at that time, along with fiddle)

It was the powerball CD and the other thing a few patches ago.

those were extra nails to the coffin for me, uncalled for and not needed already he has a poor total ap scaling of 280% and that is if everything hits

compare that to annie's scaling ... just for funsies if an adc with 2.5 atk speed attacks while annie has her molten shield up she has a total scaling of 250% (if annie stays alive that is)

or how about the burning effect from tibber? fuk that 900% ap scaling if tibbers can deal damage for the full 45 seconds.

but noooo~ rammus can't have his 3 second melee range taunt thats too fukin op.

TheAwesomeJ1 votes

Noone cares Brand item 3070

Oh right, don't forget to nerf mordekaisaac! Mordekaiser

Saminus Maximus1 votes

{quoted}

Mobility isn't unbalanced.

What's unbalanced is having champs mobile and do the exact same thing, hell even better or simply more than immobile champs. Which makes picking them immobile champs completely redundant and pointless, unless you are masochist by heart.

I still play veigar. The pain. It hurts so good.

Talamare2 votes

Talon isn't in a healthy place

He is just barely not completely overpowered and has a lot of terrible abilities

Miku Lv991 votes

Mobility is way more powerful than riot realizes. Almost every champion with mobility seems like they're stronger than they should be and a lot of the worst champions are the immobile ones. Mobility isn't unbalanced but it does make the game a lot harder to balance and it also makes a champion very much more powerful. They didn't seem to realize that reducing Kass' mobility by 250 was so much that it changed him from the best champion in the game (IF you can play him optimally) to the absolutely worst champion in the game like he is now.

LegacyDAP1 votes

Riot: Balance is weakness Zed

Stephenizgod1 votes

Totally! Everyone keeps claiming "omg mobility OP mobility OP!!" But its not really Mobility that is OP, it is how much Riot values mobility that makes it seem unbalanced. It doesn't seem like they feel Mobility is as strong as it is, thus we have all these champions with random mobility and they are not really paying for it or having compensation for their mobility. A perfect example of how a champion with mobility doesn't really need all that much damage is Ahri. They nerfed her damages on top of losing DFG and as compensation they gave her a ton of free mobility, this ended up making her incredibly overpowered. She could go all in and go back out before you could retaliate or really do anything. She is proof that a super mobile champion does not need a ton of damage, even assassins. LeBlanc has a lot of mobility on top of easy to hit abilities, i honestly dont think she needs more damage then Malzahar simply because she is an Assassin and "needs" it. As long as she can go in and out of a fight rapidly she honestly doesnt need 100-0 damage. Neither does Malzahar but at least his immobility can be taken advantage of.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

You make some good points.

The solution is to look to healthy champions such as the current state of Diana or Talon. Both can get in and do significant damage however they must stay in and put themselves at real risk.

This isn't one of them. Both of these champions are feast or famine and currently are in the intentionally undertuned land of purgatory because they're too reliable when they're strong.

Logjam1 votes

bump

warpenguin5551 votes

you cant catch kalista?...

its not hard just have somebody go with you to kill her

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