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The LP Grinch1 votes

I agree with most of that but J4 is definitely S tier.

Khristophoros1 votes

Some of it seems spot on, but some of it seems theorycrafty with no real basis like Kassadin... Presence of Mind isn't even part of his highest winrate page. He takes Triumph, which makes a lot more sense because that heal after a kill will help him survive better and snowball a teamfight. The health is more of a problem than mana once he's at late game and looking to teamfight. His overall winrate dropped pretty steeply this patch anyway though.

The LP Grinch1 votes

{quoted}

Some of it seems spot on, but some of it seems theorycrafty with no real basis like Kassadin... Presence of Mind isn't even part of his highest winrate page. He takes Triumph, which makes a lot more sense because that heal after a kill will help him survive better and snowball a teamfight. The health is more of a problem than mana once he's at late game and looking to teamfight. His overall winrate dropped pretty steeply this patch anyway though.

He actually benefits a decent amount from the base MR reductions, ultimate more, etc. Games are just too fast for him.

Khristophoros1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The LP Grinch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0y1YXV2F,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-11-23T02:44:43.178+0000)

He actually benefits a decent amount from the base MR reductions, ultimate more, etc. Games are just too fast for him.

Every champ can benefit somehow if you take into account everything in runes reforged but if you look at meta and how much other champs got, and how he's actually performing, Kass is not S tier.

These tier lists bother me because of things like that.

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