Riot needs a defensive item besides GA for adcs

Sona Cant Mid·May 13, 2019·2 votes·2,095 views

Playing any adc against most assassins is a terrible experience. Rengar ults, goes invis, then jumps on you and one shots you ect. with no counterplay available to you other than to flash. Its a really bad experience, especially in low elo where games are way less cordinated. Im suggesting a zhoynas for adcs or something of the like, maybe some boots? I understand assassins should counter adcs but i dont think feeling like you have no counterplay is healthy.

38 Comments

iiGazeiiMay 13, 20194 votes

Wasn't that the whole point of the item 3046 rework?

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

yeah but assassins like rengar, zed, kha, ect just blow right through that

iiGazeiiMay 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Cant Mid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sPXANpl,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-05-13T05:38:59.217+0000)

yeah but assassins like rengar, zed, kha, ect just blow right through that

Only fed assassins will blow through it. Having an extra 240-600 HP for their combo forces them to commit more resources to killing you, if they can even get through it at all.

The point of marksman is that they don't need to aim their damage, so their skill expression is in their positioning. Finding that balance between being close enough to deal sustained damage but far enough away to not get blown up is what separates good marksman players from the bad ones. If marksman were simply able to itemize their weaknesses away entirely, it would negate all the skill of playing marksman and make it all boil down to who can have better stats.

Items like item 3046 , item 3156 , and item 3026 are the closest thing marksman can have to defensive items. They're not horrible options, but they won't keep you alive through everything. That's the point.

Marksman are balanced around being squishy and dependent on their team. If you want to wade into the thick of things while dishing out damage, play a fighter.

chipndip1May 13, 20193 votes

Dead ass this is the most marksman main post I've ever seen in at least 9 months and 2 weeks.

SyrileMay 13, 20192 votes

Almost like multiple playstyles being allowed in the game would be fun.... What a concept!?

Riot has no interest in this. They want their pre-determined meta and anything outside of that is nerfed into oblivion or outright removed from the game.

ShmeeveMay 13, 20192 votes

better idea, have an on-hit item that gives you a small amount of shield every time you land an auto attack which can stack (up to an extent)

HP CrookshanksMay 13, 20192 votes

item 3155

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

that item is weak af, throws off your build path on most adc's, and does nothing for AD champs.

Pandemic PunchMay 13, 20192 votes

Adcs dont need defensive items. They need reliable shield supports or tanks to soak and peel for them. Adc's are overturned when they can thrive without these things.

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

half of the supports arent tanks tho

Pandemic PunchMay 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Cant Mid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sPXANpl,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-05-13T06:14:17.179+0000)

half of the supports arent tanks tho

I didn't imply that Tanks needed to be Support. Most "Tank" Supports are absolutely trash at soaking damage if they are the only front line you have. I DID say "Shield Supports". There was a time when Shield Supports were strong enough to negate a LOT of assassin damage. Now, Assassins blow you up through shields anyway.

When I mentioned Tanks, I wasn't suggesting Tank Supports. I was suggesting Tanks period. Especially Top Lane Tanks. Currently, they are useless in lane and don't survive long enough outside of lane to be viable. Especially if the enemy team has a Vayne that can kill you in 6 or less auto attacks despite having a 800+ armor and 4k+ Health Malphite.

ADC's don't need defensive options or you make Fighters irrelevant. In a traditional ideal scenario, the ADC's primary job is to kill the enemy tanks faster than the enemy ADC kills your tanks. Enchanter Supports do their best to keep the ADC alive, Assassins look for angles/opportunities to delete them, the Tanks will soak as much damage as possible while disengaging to try to peel for the ADC, and Control Mages will try to zone enemies way from being able to effectively deal damage. ^^^ This is more like the balance you will want.

ADC > Tank Tank > Assassin Assassin > ADC

If we include control mages?

Control Mage in a controlled siege or anti siege....

Control Mage > ADC Control Mage > Assassin Tank > Control Mage

Control Mage when not protected by turret or team.....

ADC > Control Mage Assassin > Control Mage Tank > Control Mage

I had to leave out Fighters for the time being because I am not feeling well and typing is difficult.

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

It's like i said in the OP, i dont think adc's should have a "fuck off assassin" item that just completely counters them, as their main job is to blow apart a squishy. I do think i should have more options when i hear rengar's ult than run to my turret and pray that he jumps on someone else. Its more of a problem with certain assassins than others, mostly the ones that go invis Evelynn Rengar Shaco Khazix Twitch because nothing feels more frustrating than being 4 and 0 and having rengar ult and 1 shot you in the middle of your team, then roar to break the cc and run away, or kha to jump on you while completely unseen and then jump away. Its not a good feeling game. Tanks have counters too, but they have room to play against them because most counters for tanks are cc. The counter for an adc is "hey im rengar with a 40 second cd on my ult, and you're dead now". Control mages have cc to stop them even though they are squishy so theres an outplay potential. Tanks are tanks and arent countered by assassins. ADC's counterplay is "oh please flay this fuck off me thresh".

KFCeytronMay 13, 20192 votes

Have you tried Bloodthirster, Death's Dance, Tabi/Merc's, or Mercurial Scimitar?

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

these things are all sustain items that people are pointing out, bloodthirster helps late game, but the lifesteal doesnt stop kha, rengar, zed, ect from just jumping on you and blowing you apart before you can even fire a single shot.

KFCeytronMay 13, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Cant Mid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sPXANpl,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-05-13T06:16:59.944+0000)

these things are all sustain items that people are pointing out, bloodthirster helps late game, but the lifesteal doesnt stop kha, rengar, zed, ect from just jumping on you and blowing you apart before you can even fire a single shot.

Bloodthirster has a shield that lasts a really long time out of combat. DD mitigates some up-front damage and turns it into a DoT to give you time to react. Tabi/Merc's reduce damage taken, as does Scimitar.

Crispy0SnakeMay 13, 20192 votes

item 3071 item 3046 item 3156 item 3139 item 3813

And you have a support. Idk why you play the squishiest class in the game, probably over extend or aren't patient enough in fights. You need to practice the ADC role more.

If an AD assassin kills you and your support does nothing because you're in an elo where that happens, then you should find a duo or play the AD assassin because you'll find more success in your elo that way

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

Im silver, so im guessing my positioning isnt always good. When my positioning is bad, thats when im fine with rengar 1 shotting me, because i was out of place and that was his opening. But when I'm in the back of the team where im supposed to be, or in the middle and rengar just cucks me before i can react when I'm where i should be, thats frustrating. Also, I like how you just assumed my positioning is garbage tho, and that I haven't been playing adc for 5 years and probably have hit my celling on them, must just need to practice some more.

MyrmironMay 13, 20191 votes

That's what supports are for. if the adc gets oneshot by an assassin he probably failed at positioning or his support is trash. Alternatively just play one of the many bullshit ADCs with tons of self peel and survivability in their kits. Ezreal Kaisa Vayne Tristana Xayah Lucian

ShmeeveMay 13, 20194 votes

The only thing that is survivability about xayah is being able to live a couple seconds longer thanks to her ultimate... Then she dies

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

i second that, you dont really use your ult to survive you use it for an outplay. If they walk out of your ult before you land (which even silver people do) then you're boned.

Chembaron YamadaMay 13, 20191 votes

If you find her seperated in a side lane, then yes, she dies.

If she has allies next to her, then her ultimate pretty much forces the assassin to blow cooldowns to disengage, otherwise the assassin will get CCed and killed.

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

Yeah the support SHOULD peel you, but as i said low elo (gold and below) people dont peel properly. And yes i hate trist and ezreal for the fact that they have so much escape when every other adc doesnt, makes it feel pointless to play anyone else.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 13, 20191 votes

I'd rather just be allowed to outplay assassins when I'm an ADC. I'm not asking to autowin fights or for more defensive stats, just for their kits to allow me to at least survive a 1v1 if I'm not massively fed and I'm better than them.

XJ99999999999999May 13, 20191 votes

knights Vow, tabis

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

knights vow isnt an adc item tho, and you cant tell your support shit most of the time so... it would be better imo if there was an antiburst item for adc's like zhonyas or a barrier item thats not that weak ass pd shield.

XJ99999999999999May 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Cant Mid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sPXANpl,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-13T04:57:35.424+0000)

knights vow isnt an adc item tho, and you cant tell your support shit most of the time so... it would be better imo if there was an antiburst item for adc's like zhonyas or a barrier item thats not that weak ass pd shield.

phantom dancer

and its a team game. if ur support is ap, your top/jungler should build it for you.

just ask later

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

right except you're Diamond 2. You are using logic for diamond games. In diamond, you might as well be playing Overwatch its such a different game from silver. Im level 7 on mf, but as soon as the Diana Evelynn Hecarim Kayn Khazix Leblanc Pyke Rengar Shaco Talon Tryndamere Zed locks i have to go grab the lube because i have no options for them when playing MF, Jhin, or Xayah, which are my main adcs. You even quoted me saying "weak ass pd shield", then say pd. ITS GARBAGE AND DOESNT STOP SHIT.

XJ99999999999999May 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Cant Mid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sPXANpl,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-13T06:34:48.406+0000)

right except you're Diamond 2. You are using logic for diamond games. In diamond, you might as well be playing Overwatch its such a different game from silver. Im level 7 on mf, but as soon as the locks i have to go grab the lube because i have no options for them when playing MF, Jhin, or Xayah, which are my main adcs. You even quoted me saying "weak ass pd shield", then say pd. ITS GARBAGE AND DOESNT STOP SHIT.

ninja tabis are a really good buy as well. just dont rush in as the adc

AlienPrimateMay 13, 20191 votes

item 3025 Can be used on most adc's. This will stop Rengar from one shotting you while still providing some offensive stats with sheen, mana, and cdr.

we havent metMay 13, 20191 votes

They literally made p.d a defensive item. Tabis, Mercs are both defensive boots that adcs DO take.

Adcs have plenty of defense options while also having a support. This post is an uneducated mess

Sona Cant MidMay 13, 20191 votes

pd shield is garbage, and tabis really stop a rengar from one shotting you while invis now hmm? i must've missed that ninja tabi buff where it makes assassins irrelevant. Ninja tabi makes it so rengar has to two shot you instead of one shot, oh no such a shutdown.

Benjamin HartvigMay 13, 20191 votes

As an adc player I know the pains of getting oneshot, I made you a list of things that can help

You have ga You have the tabis and mercs You have the phantom dancer and firecannon You have bloodthirster and death's dance You have the maw and mercurial Some ads can use wits end, black cleaver or iceborn gautlet pretty effectively You have runes that you can set up to give you more survivability and you can get a free 1time zhonya

Also with experience you can avoid getting oneshot most of the time by using smart positioning and waiting for the threat to use their cooldowns

However don't buy items on this list that wouldn't fit your build ex. If you are playin a crit champ go for tabi/merc pd ie bt ga ldr/3rd-crit

KirbyCakeMay 13, 20191 votes

ADCs can itemize to survive and 1 v 1 an assassin but the issue is that they just don't because the enemy adc building glass cannon will just do more damage in the team fights.

You can't be a god at 1 v 1s and 5 v 5s.