Boards›Gameplay

TANKS =/= JUGGERNAUTS

garren9·Jul 30, 2016·19 votes·1,507 views

I just began using the boards alot, and being a Sion main, I noticed that a very large amount of people think that champions like are tanks. But they aren't, you see, they're juggernauts.

Tanks: "Tanks excel in shrugging off incoming damage and focus on disrupting their enemies more than being significant damage threats themselves." - Riot

Juggernauts (A subclass of fighter): "Juggernauts are melee titans who relentlessly march down the opposition and devastate those foolish enough to get within their grasp. They are the only subclass who excel at both dealing and taking significant amounts of damage, but in turn they have a tough time closing in on targets due to their low range and extremely limited mobility." - Riot

So please, help clean up this misunderstanding, because I might go insane if I have to explain to people that tanks aren't juggernauts.

Thank you.

Also, if you aren't convinced or want some more clarification, here:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

EDIT: The first link is a dev blog that explains of all of the classes/subclasses and the second one is a list of all champion classes and subclasses.

48 Comments

Critmaster GarenJul 30, 20164 votes

also, here the full list to the best of my knowledge which champions are considered juggernauts.

Darius DrMundo Garen Illaoi Mordekaiser Nasus Trundle Volibear Yorick

im not sure about these. they definitely have some overlap

Singed singed might be more of a vanguard since his flip is a pretty powerful peel Olaf olaf as i said, dive fighter Shyvana shavana is officially more of a dive fighter if im not mistaken Udyr udyr might be the closest of this group to fit the category, though i have seen him outrun a dead mans passive with bear stance spam, so diver might fit aswell

Skarner has been reclassified to a vanguard

CavemanteroJul 30, 20162 votes

Yorick ???

I didn't know that shovel spank hurt that much.

Critmaster GarenJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

???

I didn't know that shovel spank hurt that much.

REALLY now? ^^

it hurts like hell. he gains increased auto attack damage with more ghouls (+ his ult ghost) summoned.

LordGeovanniJul 31, 20161 votes

gets to sit in a pitiful state for doing his job while illaoi darius and vayne run free

Critmaster GarenJul 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

gets to sit in a pitiful state for doing his job while illaoi darius and vayne run free

well yea, thats another story. they nerfed him to crap while theyre doing his rework... for 3 years. but in principle hes supposed to be a jugg and they said they want to rework him as one.

garren9Jul 30, 20161 votes

Singed is one of the few champions that Riot (and I) consider unique, since he typically ignores his team (not that that's entirely a bad thing).

VoidStaresBackJul 31, 20161 votes

Singed is officially classified under "other", alongside Cho, Blitz, Urgot, Fiddle, and Kennen.

Olaf and Shyvana are strange cases because they have far more mobility than most juggernauts and Olaf in particularly feels very diver-ish. The reason they aren't classified as Divers is that Divers usually have some form of hard CC to lock down their targets, which these two lack. Plus, one of Shyvana's main strengths is her massive AOE damage in teamfights, which isn't a diver trait.

Udyr is just strange in general and I'm not sure why he's considered a juggernaut (then again, I'm not sure what else they could classify him as).

JedditeJul 30, 20162 votes

This is a seriously important issue that is totally not some pointless, unending, semantic nerd-fight over absolutely nothing.

garren9Jul 30, 20161 votes

Exactly

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 31, 20162 votes

correct, it isn't

and you will remember this the next time some shitter blames tank mundo for not peeling for him or the next time "tank malphite" tells his team to go in with him while he tanks after his ult. Like for fucking serious? For real?

These people drag you into shit fights thinking they can do ANYTHING because someone said they were a tank

remember I'm talking about the same dense people that swear there can't be a jungler in any special game mode because "THEY HAVE TWO TOP SO WE HAVE TO DUOTOP TOOOOOOO"

There are a literal shit ton of shitters shitting out shitty shit about shit they don't understand based off some shit shittyshittybangbang shit some other shitty shitter shat into their shitty shitter brains!!! >:( Shit needs to stop!

TequilaZombieJul 31, 20161 votes

Can I use your last paragraph? It was the most inspiring thing I've seen in my life!

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 31, 20161 votes

public forum, its in the aether now. Quote all you like lol

TTK DreadnoughtJul 30, 20161 votes

Its a war we wont win for a while.

Illaoi main

garren9Jul 30, 20161 votes

Exactly, so we'll have to fight for a while.

TTK DreadnoughtJul 30, 20162 votes

Good thing we have sustain, high damage, and tankiness. We'll outlast them.

archerno1Jul 30, 20161 votes

Is mundo really considered a juggernaut? He has ranged cc which allows him to stick to target. Something like Olaf

garren9Jul 30, 20165 votes

He can stick to one person, but that's it. He also gets kited fairly easily, and Riot said in the second link that I posted that Mundo was a juggernaut.

TTK DreadnoughtJul 30, 20164 votes

Olaf is a juggernaut too.

Critmaster GarenJul 30, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Olaf is a juggernaut too.

i thnk riot sees him mainly as a dive fighter due to his ult. it almost compltely negates kiting and is almost as powerful as an instant gap closer because of it.

it kinda makes sense for both.

The Yetii RiderJul 30, 20168 votes

Tanks either have strong initiation or strong peel. Mundo is harder to kite than the average juggernaut, but that doesn't make him a tank. His JOB is to kill people, that's why he's a fighter.

Too TonJul 30, 20161 votes

Juggernauts are op then provided everyone goes into a low elo 5 v 5 slugfest no one really moving...

TyrekGoldenspearJul 30, 20161 votes

Man I miss my early days of League when I would classify everything by their lanes.

Top is tanky. Mid is mages. Bot is Marksmen. Support is champs that can support. Jungle is champs that can jungle.

In team fights, top goes first, followed by jungle, mid, support, and finally bot.

Everything wasn't so complicated back then lol.

SpoofghoulJul 30, 20161 votes

Sion are you sure

RalanrJul 30, 20162 votes

He's a tank man. He can be played like a juggernaut I guess.

SpoofghoulJul 30, 20161 votes

hes a tank but he is called the undead juggernaut

and therefore in this case tank = juggernaut ^^

RalanrJul 30, 20162 votes

Please don't start this.

SpoofghoulJul 30, 20161 votes

i play him like a juggernaut lately and its actually better then tank :S

garren9Jul 31, 20161 votes

The problem with juggernaut Sion is that his Q scales off of AD and his W and E scale off AP, and he can't auto attack very often so titanic hydra doesn't work that well. (And there's much more, but that's what I think of off the top of my head)

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 31, 20161 votes

sion is a fighter sion is a classic fighter and calling him a tank is almost silly

RalanrJul 31, 20162 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

Riot sure is silly.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 31, 20161 votes

"internally there are many debates about which champion fits where" "Some categorizations are based on the intended vision of a champion and not necessarily the current way they are optimally played in any given patch " "here’s the current list we’ve settled on"

Yes, riot is actually a VERY silly company

By the way this is a list of unreleased categorizations in an upcoming rework of the classification

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 31, 20161 votes

http://oi59.tinypic.com/289dhcn.jpg

JustMonika13Jul 30, 20161 votes

Right? Like that one person who suggested to put max. caps on stats so champions can't be tanky and deal damage at the same time, with the example he gave being Illaoi. Juggernauts are supposed to be dealing high damage and taking punishment too.

Tanky =/= Tank Juggernaut =/= Tank

FriusJul 30, 20161 votes

if mundo is juggernaut then garen is assasin and mordekaiser is adc

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 31, 20161 votes

Mundo is a fighter and is arguably a juggernaut with a speedboost

TequilaZombieJul 31, 20161 votes

Well Morde was reworked to be an ADC. And have you ever walked into an unwarded bush? Assassin Garen confirmed.

Swiftstrike4Jul 30, 20161 votes

The central juggernauts are Garen Darius Nasus Illaoi DrMundo Skarner Mordekaiser

Other champions such as Trundle and Olaf are more "duelists" or "fighters".

Juggernauts deal damage and can build tanky items if they want too. They frequently build health and almost all of them are "kiteable."

Because they can build tanky you can still refer to them as "tanks" and most people understand that they are there to soak up damage and they very rarely will be bursted down.

Characteristics of a tank, pretty much.

garren9Jul 30, 20161 votes

The term "tankiness" is misleading, so I prefer to use defense, because "tanks" and "juggernauts" use them differently. Yes, they can both soak up damage but when you boil it down it is very different. Tanks use their defense to hold down enemies for their team to kill while soaking up damage. Juggernauts use their defense simply to get to the enemies backline and kill them.

But Riot probably explained it better in the first link I put up so I recomend checking it out.

ElewdJul 31, 20161 votes

Skarner isn't considered a juggernaut anymore, hes being classified as a diver along with Vi/Nocturne/Olaf.

RalanrJul 31, 20162 votes

Vanguard actually.

RogueWillJul 30, 20161 votes

sion is probably a juggernaut thou....his disruption is quite weak

garren9Jul 30, 20161 votes

I main Sion, and I can say with confidence that he is a tank. He has an engage that he can pull off from half way across the map and a 2 second AOE stun to follow up on. He also doesn't have very much damage, unlike Garen DrMundo Illaoi after laning phase.

EDIT: Also, in the second link I posted Riot says he is a tank

garren9Jul 30, 20161 votes

[slayer-jinx-wink] Also alot of you guys are forgetting to check the two links I posted, because that will help save people from a lot of debating.

Slack KingJul 31, 20161 votes

Why not tank and damage? Amumu

RalanrJul 31, 20161 votes

Scepter Amumu is hilarious I can't lie.

That's like the only AP item he needs.

XeruonJul 31, 20161 votes

Building item 1402 , item 3001 and item 3116 , then going full tank gives you a really nice AP Bruiser Amumu actually.

MunchCrunchLunchJul 31, 20161 votes

most juggernats have higher defensive. and offensive stats than pure tanks thus they should technically be tanking more damage but providing less utility or engage/disengage. but it doesn't really matter even with 300 armor against a full ad team as darius i wasn't surviving 5 seconds in team fights. full ad team.

once you get the vel koz that does 1500 true damage in a cpl seconds tanks cease to exist. but u dont need that all you need is an ad carry with lord dominiks and you can no longer be possibly a tank even if you build all the armor you can possibly build. i think at most i've had 80% or so physical damage reduction. meanwhile the adc builds lord dominiks. gets 15% extra damage on me from its passive and then i suddenly lost 150 armor and each of their crits is 800

if an adc crit is dealing 800 damage and am blocking 60% of that (am accounting for the adc armor penetration). am taking 320 damage per auto. as a tank i usually have around 3.5k health. more or less depending on champion or items. so that it takes an ad carry about 11 autos to kill me. this is all late game. most ad carries late game have around 1.4 attack speed but also a bunch of them have as boosts. some have even up to 2.5 and kog maw is 5.0. but for the sake of argument lets say an adc as is 1.5 late game( even tho sivir or tristana use their as boost and get like 2.5 as). means than an adc can kill a late game tank in 7.3 seconds. you add all the other extra damage from masteries and other champions and it sounds about right that full tank building champions only manage to survive about 3-4 seconds late game. build that ROA and rabadons on the maokai and try to kill that jhin before he kills you. you can't depend on people to do damage while your tanking in low elo. but then again tanking doesn't really last very long to get the idea that you want them to engage.

I don't even see teams try to engage with a tank or anything close to it anymore they just insta die before they land much of any CC.. build damage and go for that one flash play and hope it works.

look at pro play its ridiculous that team fights are a single rotation. the frontline tank dies in a rotation and sometimes even a half.

you can easily get 100% crit and 40% cdr. yet all we get is more buffs and buffs to damage indirectly and directly in the game its becoming a twitch shooter like call of duty at this point.

garren9Jul 31, 20161 votes

HAHAHA I'm getting triggered, I made a new thread http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/X6vvEiEm-stop-calling-sion-a-juggernaut?comment=0007 "Stop calling Sion a juggernaut" and it has -1 upvotes....[zombie-brand-clap]

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