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When Censer doesn't quite cut it: an AP Support comparison

N0rth Wind·2/19/2016, 4:02:36 PM·3 votes·1,181 views

Hey guys! This is a report of my discussion on Reddit, so here's a warning: this post includes numbers and simple math.
If that makes you uncomfortable, hit your backspace now. xD

Sooooooo if you're like me, you don't like "supporting", especially if you couldn't get your hands on that sexy tanky support you'd been eyeing before your allies troll-banned it.
You hate being that useless squishy thing that doesn't really do anything impressive apart from maybe healing a little or shielding a little, and basically just warding and dying. You wanna do some damage (...you'll still ward or I'll cut you).

But, N0rthWind senpai, you will ask, I don't wanna play Syndra support and get reported! Plus Syndra doesn't heal or shield or give any other delicious buffs!

Do not fret -- there are quite a few AP mid laners that you can play as supports without getting 9x reported! However, we're not gonna cover these today.
There's an array of proper mage-support champions that can pack a decent punch -with the correct build- while also providing the necessary utility so your adc doesn't QQ.

Today we're going to be looking at Bard, Janna, Karma, Kayle, Lulu, Nami and Sona. I'll be mentioning their base values and scalings for their damaging, healing and shielding abilities ONLY, as well as random other info where I think it matters. All % scalings are AP except if I mention otherwise.

##Bard:

  • Meeps -- at 60 chimes you have: 3 meeps, 7s recharge, 210 + 30% damage each.
  • Cosmic Binding: 260 + 65%, 1.8 seconds stun.
  • Caretaker's Shrine: heal ranges from 150 + 30% to 230 + 60% (biggest non-ultimate heal in the list!).

##Janna:

  • Howling Gale: from 160 + 35% to 265 + 65% with 3 seconds of charging. Knockup from 0.5 to 1.25 (this ability sucks).
  • Zephyr: 280 + 50% plus a hefty slow.
  • Eye of the Storm: shield is 240 + 70%, bonus AD is 50 + 10%.
  • Monsoon: heal is 600 + 150%

##Karma

  • Inner Flame / Soulflare: 260 + 60% / an additional 525 + 90% damage, detonation included (initial hit bonus damage is 175 + 30%)
  • Focused Resolve: 260 + 90% and a 2 second root (it becomes a 3.25 second root when used with Mantra!)
  • Inspire / Defiance: shield is 200 + 50% / an additional 210 + 30% shield and half of that in an AoE. 60% MS bonus.

##Kayle:

  • Reckoning: 260 + 60% + 100% of bonus AD, the slow is remarkably strong at 55%
  • Divine Blessing: heal is 240 + 45% and a 30% MS bonus
  • Righteous Fury: 60 + 30% damage per hit.

##Lulu:

  • Pix: 9-105 + 15% damage (all 3 hits combined)
  • Glitterlance: 260 + 50% and a massive but decaying 80% slow
  • Help, Pix!: the shield is 240 + 60% / the damage is 200 + 40%
  • Wild Growth: the bonus HP gain is 600 + 50%

##Nami:

  • Aqua Prison: 295 + 50% and a 1.5 second disable.
  • Ebb and Flow: the heal is 185 + 30%, the damage is 230 + 50%. Each bounce does 15% less damage and healing, but it does 7.5% more per 100 AP, meaning that at 200 AP all bounces do the same damage and healing, and at 201+ AP they do increasing damage and healing.
  • Tidecaller's Blessing: 85 + 20% per hit, max. 3 hits
  • Tsunami: 350 + 60% and of course the following knockup and 2-4 seconds of a super heavy slow (70%).

##Sona:

  • Power Chord: when amplified by Q it does 18-268 + 28%
  • Hymn of Valor initial hit does 200 + 50%, bonus on-hit damage (with Crescendo at rank 3) does 100 + 20% for a total of 300 + 70%
  • Aria of Perseverance: the heal ranges from 110 + 20% to 165 + 30% based on missing HP, and the shield is 155 + 20%
  • Crescendo: 350 + 50%

Total damage numbers with full combos (values in parentheses are calculated for 600 AP):

  • Bard: 820 + 125% (1820) by using 3 meeps at 60 Charms. Note that this number goes way up with more Charms.
  • Janna: don't even bother with her damage
  • Karma: an entire Q hit with the detonation is 785 + 150% (1685) without W. (With a full W hit it goes up to 2305.)
  • Kayle: don't build her pure AP
  • Lulu: 670 + 120% (1390) with two autoattacks at lvl 18. Each additional one adds 195 damage.
  • Nami: 875 + 160% (1835) with just a direct RQW combo (no E hits, W has no bounces affecting its damage). With 2 hits from E it goes up to 2245.
  • Sona: 918 + 148% (1806)

A few notes to take into consideration:

  • Sona has the fastest, most reliable and most often available basic burst combo, but she has to waste her ultimate to use her full combo. She also has tons of utility and can shield or speed up her entire team, being the most versatile support in this list.
  • Nami has the best in-combat heal apart from Janna's Monsoon, the most CC out of all these champions, and will most likely do the most damage in a fight -- however she has to blow her ultimate as well to use her full combo. Also, she has the best initiation, if she ults on top of her allies. However her abilities have long cooldowns and are unreliable or difficult to use (especially Q and E) so her poke in lane is pretty bad, and her MS boosts are generally too unreliable to be considered good utility.
  • Lulu has the best sustained damage if we leave Kayle out, as she can just keep autoattacking for as long as she wants. Her ulti is also the most powerful instant "heal" in the list.
  • Janna has no damage (she also doesn't like Lich Bane nor Nashor's Tooth) but has the best disengage out of all these champions and the single most powerful AoE heal in the game (but it's over time). Also, she can give 110 AD to someone.
  • Karma has the best poke out of all these champions as she only needs to land one low-cooldown skill. Her empowered Q is the most powerful single ability in this list, however it's hard to land the detonation damage. She has the best AoE shield and AoE MS boost in the list but she has to blow her ulti for it. Also noteworthy is that she is not a Lich Bane user so her damage isn't actually that high compared to the others.
  • Almost all of the champions in this list want to buy Lich Bane which would do 300 damage at 600 AP. Only Nami can use it more than once in a combo, since she's the only one that has more than one hard CC abilities that she can chain together, allowing her to weave Lich Bane attacks in between.
  • Only 4 of these champions want to buy Nashor's Tooth (Kayle, Bard, Lulu and perhaps Nami). It would add 90 damage to each of their attacks assuming they have 600 AP. The best users would be Kayle, due to her high attackspeed, and Bard -- since more attackspeed would allow him to use more Meep-empowered attacks during his stun.
  • Most of the champions in the list that have an on-hit effect can rapidly apply the Thunderlord's Decree mastery.
  • The highest potential damage (if we exaggerate) can, surprisingly, be dealt by Bard, because his Meeps can scale infinitely and reach tremendous amounts of damage (465 base damage at 150 chimes, scaling even harder from there and on). Also, he has a huge stun on a short cooldown that can allow him to safely attack his target several times and his Meeps have a decent scaling too.
  • All of them bar Kayle and Janna would want to buy Luden's Echo which would provide an additional 160 damage for their combos, at 600 AP.
  • Bard has the ability to spam the most in lane since each Chime he collects restores 15% max mana to him. Sadly, he doesn't have a lot to spam with.

Pick your poison!

39 Comments

Deep Terror Nami2/19/2016, 4:05:53 PM12 votes

What makes you think Nami's poke in lane is bad? I'd say it's quite the opposite.

Erockandroll2/19/2016, 4:31:14 PM4 votes

As a support main, I really don't sacrifice utility for poke, or vice versa. Ludens and Echo are probably more important to doing damage than a champions AP scaling. (And I'm pretty sure your not getting to 600AP on a support's budget.)

My typical Sona build is Sightstone, FQC, Lucidity boots, Censor, then lIch bane, with the last item being situational. Some people do complain that the effect, isn't enough. But I find the On hit damage, more effective now since I can combined it with Windspeakers. And then it synergizes with my other items. Combining it with FQC, meas that I don't need a separate mana item. And the combining the MS from that and Lichbane, gives me incredible amounts of movement speed to work with. All while, Her base damage combined with Lichbane is more than enough.

Also, if you are trying to mold an APC out of a support, it should be because someone on your team. (likely the ADC) F*cked up and you need to take over. In which case, I would recommend either Karma or Lulu, (maybe kayle) because they will actually have the wave clear.

Billy VoHagen2/19/2016, 9:42:57 PM4 votes

The fuck, you say you don't want to play a squishy thing then you list the squishiest champion in the game. And really, if you want to do damage as support, just play annie or brand.

Quepha2/19/2016, 4:16:45 PM3 votes

Kayle is terrible as a bot lane support. She needs farm to be useful.

DefectivDetectiv2/19/2016, 4:09:51 PM2 votes

What about Braum?

Athenes Lulu2/19/2016, 9:37:31 PM2 votes

I like your tone, makes shit more interesting to read, so +1 just for that.

Though, a few things to add:

  1. Nami's poke is almost as tough as Bard's poke, but just requires more careful decisive skills because of how mana costly it is, and how it has lots of potential for killing 2 birds with a stone. Of course, if you are going to use this a lot just to heal because your allies are shitty, it's no surprise that her poke stinks. Time those properly and you should be good to go.
  2. Though dealing damage is awesome and that they do hurt if used properly, you, as a support with a lower income than that of your teammates, need to remember that you're not going to get scalings unless you are super ahead as a team where defense isn't necessary; getting items to actually scale as a support is a luxury. What does this mean? Most likely, you're not going to be able to do that damage-dealing awesomeness in a typical competitive game, but hey, it's fun sometimes.
  3. LB is not always the best thing to get because it is not efficient to just get into AA range as a squishy little shit and on champs that don't rely on AA for main source of damage, and especially if they are going for tons of AP. Of course, you're not going to get hats, hourglass, or even RoA would be too time, space, and money consuming for a shitty support, so that's not the go. Instead, opt for things like these:
  • Liandry's: good if your damage spells also has slows
  • Mejai's: if you're not gonna die, which is common on supports. Cheap way for lots of AP especially for lower-income supports
  • Morello's: if you want a cheaper item that fits all, we love GW too
  • Ardent Censer: your shields give people free mini Wit's End, it has pretty good stats on a support, AND it is super cheap compared to other AP items. More of a niche pick, but it is still good.
  • or even Rylai's: if you like hp, AP, and more slowing if your spells don't have them already.

Going full AP is not optimal and therefore not recommended on supports like them especially in their positions as utility bots, but hey, not all games have to be dead serious. Go and have some silly fun once in a while!

Otherwise, happy supporting ;^)

ChaosReignsDown2/19/2016, 5:58:40 PM1 votes

I love Karma and Sona (DJ sona ftw) .. but I picked up Nami again last night and remembered why she is so good. CC period. She has a very strong heal/poke with W, on demand CC/poke with Q, and ppl dont give her E the credit it deserves..in empowers your ADC to do extra damage and slow the enemy.. easy to win trades when your adc is doing 25+ magic damage x3 and slowing them.. while being healed and that heal poking.. while the other adc has to dodge the Nami Q.

1 Q+W, while your adc has your E buff.. easy kills. Thats with no ults. Also the passive speed buff is cool lol