[Kindly requesting Rioter reply] Does Riot plan to make any changes to Yasuo?

N0rth Wind·9/15/2015, 3:20:00 PM·4 votes·784 views

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a Yasuo QQ pl0x nerf post. Proceed open mindedly. :)

I have made similar threads in a few other places just to gauge the community's feel on this issue, and after some research, I found out that Riot hasn't made a statement about whether they like the current state of Yasuo.

When I say "state" I do not mean his numbers. I'm sure the balance team is doing the best they can, and I'm not going to rant about how he's too strong or too weak. After the last 5 reworks (Fiora and the Juggernauts) they have my complete trust. Best changes I've ever seen, I'm not even kidding. The numbers needed tweaks but the design in its core was simply too good.

Yasuo, however, is struggling right now. I'm sure Riot is aware of how oppressing and yet unstable he can be in lane, and how most people opt for maxing E first, which in my eyes is completely counter-intuitive. His early game is atrocious, but is perceived as strong because of how difficult his E spam is to contain. And it _is _ hard to contain -- E gives him superfluous mobility in lane with no chance of counterplay, but all in all fails as a proper mobility skill if there are less than 3 available targets around. I get that "I become more mobile the more targets are around" is a cool concept, however 6+ dashes per wave in lane but 1, barely 2 dashes in 1v1 scenarios feels bad, at least to me. Yasuo's supposed to be just a bit more mobile than Fiora, yet he outperforms her 10x in lane in this particular field, but in skirmishes and other fights he can barely dash twice. He cannot reach targets that are RIGHT outside his reach (and afaik he's not a Juggernaut), unless there's an enemy minion wave incoming (in which case not even a Yi with R can escape). Yasuo's interaction with minions is a bit out of control in my opinion, and people are abusing it since its the only option to do well. Fiora's Q is a much healthier approach: she doesn't make you want to break your monitor in lane, but she also doesn't rely on a 6 second targeted short-range dash with static cooldown to get to people _outside _ of lane.

Another thing I dislike is the increased crit damage reduction on Q. Not only is it marginally better than an autoattack lategame, but the moment you start building crit, it starts punishing you for buying AD. Q is supposed to be Yasuo's main damage output aside from autoattacks, and yet it ends up weaker if you have enough crit and AD. No other champion has an auto-attack-boost skill that's weaker than their autos. Even manaless champions whose attack modifiers offer range (like Steel Tempest) and/or CC (like 3rd cast of Steel Tempest) can safely use these skills knowing they always **boost ** and never lower their damage throughout the game. Several will argue here that "you're supposed to use it in-between autoattacks", to which I have to say that Garen's mobility+CC+damage Q still always does more damage than his autos at every stage of the game, while it's a hard aa reset, au contraire to Yasuo's Q. Ezreal's Q as well, which has a similar cooldown and function as Yasuo's Q1 and Q2, is always better than an aa.

Thirdly, Flow is a unique mechanic in the game (except perhaps item 3742 that generates similarly) **that's wasted on a level-scaling shield that's not particularly great. ** You run around, and get a shield that blocks ~2 autoattacks or ~1 skill at best. If you described Yasuo to me without specific details, I'd be certain that Flow either fuels his crits, his ArPen or his mobility. Right now his entire secondary resource fuels just his shield, which is necessary since he's like paper, but not a particularly cool mechanic, especially after the nerfs.

Lastly, his Ultimate is a great concept that, in my opinion, is poorly executed. It requires a massive setup, many times it equals suicide, it can cut or extend CC based on skill, and yet the damage is mediocre at best (a Shiv powered Q crit with item 3031 legitimately does more damage: 400 + 150% bonus AD vs 250 + 225% total AD + 225 magic damage) and it gives a buff that honestly confuses me. I see why armor pen fits thematically and I see why regular armor pen can't be a thing on a champion that always crits (carries melting D:) but right now it's a waste on his power budget.

See, Yasuo is _forced _ to use Last Breath on the enemy damage dealers, and specifically the dangerous glass cannons. Often, even when he does that, he ends up oneshotting one carry then popping instantly. But the buff is a tankbuster ability. So am I supposed to ult the squishies then fight the tanks? Or just clean them up?

And this train of though brought me to my main question about my beloved Yasuo: what is Yasuo, exactly?

Is he an **assassin **with delayed burst, like Ekko? Is he a melee hypercarry with bad early game that ascends to godhood later on? Because MasterYi has the tools to actually dive in fights without instantly going kamikaze, and his early game isn't even _that _ bad -- or _that _ frustrating (can I say toxic?). Is he a combo-pick that relies on his team to pull off his hard-to-do ultimate super mechanic, but once he does so, he can proceed to Pentakill the enemy team like noone's business? Cause Darius's Bloodrage is both easier to trigger and not suicidal, in contrast to Last Breath, and it also doesn't specifically target tanks. Or is he a mobile melee fighter that can melt squishies and tanks alike, like Fiora?

Right now I feel like Yasuo's strong in the wrong places, he leaves much to be desired in others, and although he incorporates great things into his kit (a wind warrior _should _ be mobile, squishy but hard to hit, have several swift combos, strike in the enemy's weak spots [aka crits] and not be hindered by armor) but he does so in the wrong way. So he's left with a skillset that has all these things in it, but badly executed.

TLDR: Some mechanics are needed but currently used out of place -- they should be used differently in more cohesive ways (arpen), others are too much in quantity yet come short in quality (E), some are too weak in order to compensate for others being a pain to deal with (Q, R damage), and others are fine, but they COULD be implemented in a more meaningful way to add depth to him (Flow is only used for his shield while it could affect his arpen or crits, like how a samurai would actually use a flow/focus technique, fueled by running like the wind. And mainly it would add gameplay :P). And other things are amazing ideas that are just fine in terms of power and counterplay (windwall). I love it, and I love to play the mindgames against and around it.

I am terribly sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for your time. I would love to hear from a designer, to see if these thoughts resonate with the Champion Dev team, and if they plan to make any changes in the future (not when; _if _. You have already informed us about which champs are in the current rework list :D).

Keep up the good work! :3 Teemo

9 Comments

Drunken Mutt9/16/2015, 5:05:17 PM3 votes

An actually well put together and thought out post. To bad no one's looking at.

Cosnirak9/17/2015, 1:53:11 AM2 votes

Great post! Thank you for not only putting a lot of thought into but also being nice and reasonable towards Riot at the same time.

This is mostly all stuff I've thought about before as well. But hey that's just a strong sign that these are real issues with the champion. :D I assume Riot isn't entirely unaware of all this. But what are the solutions? It's a very complicated puzzle because it all comes together as one champion.

Sadly I don't think I care enough about Yasuo myself to put much thought into coming up with solutions, at least right now. If some ideas get tossed around that intrigue me I might chime in with my thoughts though. Best of luck!

Trebbi9/15/2015, 3:43:02 PM1 votes

Honestly I would like a better visual presentation of his ranged Q tornado aswell as Jannas Q tornado.

KONO RUBICK DA9/17/2015, 9:20:31 PM1 votes

he is a hard carry meanwhile with one item he reaches late game, they just need to remove the crit passive and buff him