Rework Please: Mordekaiser

Sir Wesley··2 votes·1,218 views

I've been playing league for some time now (4+ years) and I've seen many champions released and immediately fall out of the meta only to be reworked, be extremely "Over Powered" for about a week, nerfed, then never see the light of day again because they are now essentially useless. A prime example of this is Mordekaiser. So I'll be talking a bit about where I think Riot went wrong with his rework and getting some community opinions on the subject.

I have no quarrels with Riot over Mordekaiser being reworked. He needed it. I do however have a problem with the way the went about his subsequent nerfs. Mordekaiser's Q was his bread and butter. It was the only thing that kept him in a fight because of the insane damage output. After the insane number of damage reducing patches that hit him as hard as his Q hit scrubs close enough to flash onto he became about as relevant as Yorick (RIP). This would have blown over much better had Riot then given him a "rework" much like they did with the Mid lane bunch in early season 6. A mini rework, if you will. This is where the discussion begins. What should have been changed about him after that whole escapade?

This is my take on it;

Mordekaiser is a bruiser type champion, not a damage carry (any more). Bruiser is a nice mix of Crowd Control, Tank, and Damage. Mordekaiser has damage... A pattern seems to emerge here. If you have no mobility, no hard CC, no defensive stats, and average damage you're a pretty bad Bruiser. Instead of giving him a big balloon to hit people with, why don't we rework his other abilities instead.

** Passive - Iron Man** Oh right he has a shield

Shield Rate: 25% of damage dealt (calculated after resistances) --> 25% of damage dealt (calculated before resistances) **Shield Cap: **25% of max health --> 30% of max health **Shield Decay Rate: **1.5% base health (minimum of 6.25% maximum health) --> 1% max health per second (minimum of 15% of max health) **Shield Decay Delay: **1.5 Seconds --> Until out of combat

Q - Mace of Spades Hybrid Champions are Dead

Damage: First two hits deal 10/20/30/40/50 (+50/60/70/80/90% Total AD) (+60% AP) Magic Damage. Third hit deals double damage. --> First hit deals 15/25/35/45/55 (+1/1.5/2/2.5/3% of target's max health) (+20% AP) Magic Damage. Each Subsequent hit on the same target deals twice as much damage as the last (Max 60/100/140/180/220 (+4/6/8/10/12% of target's max health) (+80% AP). (Added): Mordekaiser gains 10/15/20/25/30% attack speed on the next 3 hits.

W - Harvesters of Sorrow Complete Overhaul

Harvesters of Sorrow can be cast on Allied or Enemy champions and neutral monsters for 4 seconds dealing 45/50/60/75/100 (+15% AP) Magic damage per second to enemies in the area and slowing them by 10/12/14/16/18%, Increasing ally movement speed by the same amount. Mordekaiser gains 10% movement speed when moving toward the target.

E - Siphon of Destruction Basically the same. Just without AD scaling.

AP Scaling: 60% AP --> 75%

R - Children of the Grave Pretty much the same as the E.

(Removed): Ghosts no longer gain 100% of Mordekaiser's Bonus AD. (Removed): Mordekaiser no longer heals for 100% of damage dealt. (Added): Children of the Grave stuns the target for 1.5 seconds on cast.

This is quite a bit of a change and a lot to digest in terms of making a balanced champion and I don't pretend to know a lot about making balanced champions but this is my take on things. I loved playing the old Mordekaiser and I would love to have a more relevant version of him in the meta.

Mordekaiser has potential to be either AD or AP or Hybrid. I personally don't think that Hybrid champions have a place in the meta due to itemization and things of the like but I'd be interested to know what everyone else thinks.

31 Comments

Slack King3 votes

Leave my morde alone

I dont mean to be rude, but your rework ruins quite a bit of what morde is, and shows you dont understand him at all.

He has no CC and no mobility for massive damage. The ad scaling isnt bad, it allows you to pull extra from some of his best items. item 3078 item 3146 item 3053 His Q in no way needs %hp damage, I delete some people with 2 hits You gutted his survival from W for some garbo move speed

Sir Wesley1 votes

I understand where you're coming from which is why I ask for other's opinion. When I say these things I'm speaking purely from statistical evidence provided by various stat websites (such as OP.GG and Champion.GG) and not from personal bias. I am merely looking into what makes champions fall in and out of the meta from a statistical standpoint.

Slack King2 votes

Meta champs are either easy to play and get resuslts or just flat out broken. Thats just how it is

For example tank ekko was broken for quite a while, Morde top deletes tank ekko like a joke and never had an issue

Im not going to say morde doesnt have issues he does, but there are quite a few of us who kept mordes win rate at 52%, until fkn inori played him in LCS and the bandwagon followed making his win rate tank.

I enjoy him quite a bit and even though Ill never get the greivous wounds on his ult, I atleast hope they will update his Visuals

Sir Wesley1 votes

OH Man finally someone says something about the visuals! His feet look like big pancakes...

I don't know enough about what "meta" really means in depth. I'm merely looking at play rate as compared to win rate and general effectiveness in game as well as how that champion reacts in high ELO compared to low. So I can't say much about "meta" champs being broken or not.

Slack King1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Wesley,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02pqARQp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-08-24T23:35:40.849+0000)

OH Man finally someone says something about the visuals! His feet look like big pancakes...

I don't know enough about what "meta" really means in depth. I'm merely looking at play rate as compared to win rate and general effectiveness in game as well as how that champion reacts in high ELO compared to low. So I can't say much about "meta" champs being broken or not.

Meta means exactly what its stands for, most effective tactic available.

Aka the best champion at the time for said role would be Meta, champs that counter said champ usually get shoved into the meta as well.

Sir Wesley1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slack King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02pqARQp,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-08-24T23:42:26.444+0000)

Meta means exactly what its stands for, most effective tactic available.

This seems to be a fluid concept based on ELO and skill level with a particular champion. I don't want Mordekaiser to enter the same level as Master Yi (before his various nerfs) or even Ekko, I would merely like to see his play increased. I don't like seeing such original champion concepts falling through the cracks due to more effective or easier "meta" coming into play.

Ralanr2 votes

Jax would like a word with you on hybrid champions.

Slack King2 votes

{quoted}

Jax would like a word with you on hybrid champions.

Jax needs help, he is either broken as shit. Or garbage

Except late game, you could build random items and stil 1v5 late game as jax

Sir Wesley1 votes

I feel the same way about Vayne.

Sir Wesley1 votes

Jax bby plox i cri. item 3070

Slack King2 votes

Well then pick him up and start playing him. Id rather people just believe him to be garbage. It makes me giggle Trust me, when you land that 3rd Q and everyone is just like WTF?! was that

Sir Wesley1 votes

I loved that about him, but usually the person on the other end of that Q doesn't think so. Which is why I believe Riot severely decreased the damage multiplication on it.

Slack King1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Wesley,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02pqARQp,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-08-25T00:05:19.685+0000)

I loved that about him, but usually the person on the other end of that Q doesn't think so. Which is why I believe Riot severely decreased the damage multiplication on it.

They changed it due to the fact if morde couldnt land the 3rd Q he had a massive lack of damage, thats why they shifted some of that 3rd hit power to the first 2 hits

Schàdenfreude1 votes

Shield Rate: 25% of damage dealt (calculated after resistances) --> 25% of damage dealt (calculated before resistances) Shield Cap: 25% of max health --> 30% of max health Shield Decay Rate: 1.5% base health (minimum of 6.25% maximum health) --> 1% max health per second (minimum of 15% of max health) Shield Decay Delay: 1.5 Seconds --> Until out of combat

Wait, this guy is just talking about Mord buffs basically. No wonder why he wants to rework Mord this way.

Damage: First two hits deal 10/20/30/40/50 (+50/60/70/80/90% Total AD) (+60% AP) Magic Damage. Third hit deals double damage. --> First hit deals 15/25/35/45/55 (+1/1.5/2/2.5/3% of target's max health) (+20% AP) Magic Damage. Each Subsequent hit on the same target deals twice as much damage as the last (Max 60/100/140/180/220 (+4/6/8/10/12% of target's max health) (+80% AP). (Added): Mordekaiser gains 10/15/20/25/30% attack speed on the next 3 hits.

Still wanting more Mord buffs rofl. Just eliminating the AD part of it but giving more damage.

W - Harvesters of Sorrow Complete Overhaul Harvesters of Sorrow can be cast on Allied or Enemy champions and neutral monsters for 4 seconds dealing 45/50/60/75/100 (+15% AP) Magic damage per second to enemies in the area and slowing them by 10/12/14/16/18%, Increasing ally movement speed by the same amount. Mordekaiser gains 10% movement speed when moving toward the target. E - Siphon of Destruction Basically the same. Just without AD scaling. AP Scaling: 60% AP --> 75%

Ye, make Mord more boring by changing W and buffing E. I shouldn't be suprised by now.

R - Children of the Grave Pretty much the same as the E. (Removed): Ghosts no longer gain 100% of Mordekaiser's Bonus AD. (Removed): Mordekaiser no longer heals for 100% of damage dealt. (Added): Children of the Grave stuns the target for 1.5 seconds on cast. This is quite a bit of a change and a lot to digest in terms of making a balanced champion and I don't pretend to know a lot about making balanced champions but this is my take on things. I loved playing the old Mordekaiser and I would love to have a more relevant version of him in the meta.

rofl, so first you wanna buff his shield because he dies too quickly, but now you want to remove healing from his ult. Do you see the condradiction there within your logic? Also, I hardly think a point-and-click stun would be a good idea.

Sir Wesley1 votes

This is in no way constructive or an opinion at all. It is merely you judging someone else for what they believe might make a champion better. Instead of shutting someone down why not give a reason that these things should, or should not, happen followed by reason or statistic.

Schàdenfreude1 votes

Yeah and you think you would make Mord by buffing him rofl. Instead of randomly giving a champion buffs why not use reason to make better changes instead?

Slack King2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah and you think you would make Mord by buffing him rofl. Instead of randomly giving a champion buffs why not use reason to make better changes instead?

What are you babbling about?

Schàdenfreude1 votes

Read the other comments

Slack King1 votes

{quoted}

Read the other comments

He doesnt have a good concept of how morde works all together, cut him some slack.[slayer-jinx-wink]

Schàdenfreude1 votes

XD [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Sir Wesley1 votes

I'm genuinely confused as to why you would think that. It doesn't seem very logical that someone's opinions on how they think a champion should, or could, be changed has any relevance to that player's understanding of the champion's skill set. I find it hard to believe that Riot champion developers play a specific champion 1000 times before making a change. This is why they data mine other player's games.

Slack King1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Wesley,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02pqARQp,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-24T23:57:52.189+0000)

I'm genuinely confused as to why you would think that. It doesn't seem very logical that someone's opinions on how they think a champion should, or could, be changed has any relevance to that player's understanding of the champion's skill set. I find it hard to believe that Riot champion developers play a specific champion 1000 times before making a change. This is why they data mine other players games.

So you think you can datamine a datamines datamine? Riot doesnt just look at numbers and rework something. They may look at numbers and buff/nerf them, but a rework has massive implications gamewide.

Combined with the fact you tossed out morde champion status with those skills, he is a juggernaut. Slow tanky and scary as hell.

One thing your datamine missed, the 25% to 30% hp buff for his shields max, you missed he has one of the lowest HP at lvl 18, lower than sona by a good chunk.

Which forces you too build HP to make his shield and E viable. Also you rarely sit at full shields as morde, having a higher max wont do all that much other than making E shields a little better.

Your Q rework just shows the wrong league mentality, Lets just put %HP damage on everything. Also if you cant Land your 3rd Q you gut your damage, which is why they moved away from that double double idea already.

To put it simply, you see a champion that doesnt get alot of play so you say rework, you never thought what is the bump that morde needs to fix a glaring issue.

Sir Wesley1 votes

I see where you're coming from with the % Max health damage and the lack of a 3rd hit does make his damage lacking. I have taken these things into account when factoring in a slow / movement speed buff. I do see the point you are trying to raise about these changes making his game play in a manner that would be unhealthy for the game in general.

But you have not answered the question. How do these things make my ability to assess a champion's statistics and overall game play sub-par to yours, or anyone else's? I'm not trying to say I know everything about every champion but I am certainly not passing judgement on you for having an opinion differing from mine.

When assessing someone else's ideas please take into account how they have gotten to that particular answer, and when responding to that person please don't use "they aren't good/smart/experienced enough to have a good answer."

It isn't, nor will it ever be, a valid response.

Slack King1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Wesley,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02pqARQp,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T00:59:35.465+0000)

I see where you're coming from with the % Max health damage and the lack of a 3rd hit does make his damage lacking. I have taken these things into account when factoring in a slow / movement speed buff. I do see the point you are trying to raise about these changes making his game play in a manner that would be unhealthy for the game in general.

But you have not answered the question. How do these things make my ability to assess a champion's statistics and overall game play sub-par to yours, or anyone else's? I'm not trying to say I know everything about every champion but I am certainly not passing judgement on you for having an opinion differing from mine.

When assessing someone else's ideas please take into account how they have gotten to that particular answer, and when responding to that person please don't use "they aren't good/smart/experienced enough to have a good answer."

It isn't, nor will it ever be, a valid response.

Im not saying that im superior to you at assessing a champion. Im saying I know this champion way better than you do, and your assessment is going the wrong way

I never said you were unable to come up with a good one, but this is just half hearted. You forgot to keep who the champion is in mind, you lept forward that a champ has a low play rate meaning they need a rework.

Sir Wesley1 votes

Your assessment is correct. I was hasty in judging a champion purely based on their statistics and never took into account the problems that would arise from doing this.

Nonetheless yourself, and most of the others who comment on these things never really stated a solid reason why they aren't good changes. The answer "I know this champion better than you, therefore I can tell you your opinion is wrong." is not a valid answer. As I said before, these are opinions. Without testable results they will always be opinions.

Telling someone their opinions are "the wrong league mentality" is like answering the above poll with "Yes." It doesn't make any sense at all, nor is it at all constructive.

Slack King1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Wesley,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02pqARQp,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:25:37.580+0000)

Your assessment is correct. I was hasty in judging a champion purely based on their statistics and never took into account the problems that would arise from doing this.

Nonetheless yourself, and most of the others who comment on these things never really stated a solid reason why they aren't good changes. The answer "I know this champion better than you, therefore I can tell you your opinion is wrong." is not a valid answer. As I said before, these are opinions. Without testable results they will always be opinions.

Telling someone their opinions are "the wrong league mentality" is like answering the above poll with "Yes." It doesn't make any sense at all, nor is it at all constructive.

But i did, your Q change messes with his damage, he doesnt need the move speed. You gutted his heal on W and R As well as removing AD ratios makes his current builds not as good, and pushes him into only getting a few items, instead of him having different builds for different matchups

I mean if youd like we can play a few together so you can see how morde works first person and then revamp your rework. Or like I said you can pick him up and get a much better idea from that

Sir Wesley1 votes

"better changes" how? These are two conflicting opinions. Obviously I can't test my hypothesis because Riot has a vendetta against modding but I can ask others how they feel and compare my opinion to theirs. These "buffs" are what I think he needs. You think otherwise. Please use constructive criticism and not blindly harassing others.

Schàdenfreude1 votes

If you think these are the changes he needs, then you must have a pretty idealized of what some champions are. You hardly even have any games on Mordekaiser. I don't ethier. But I know for a fact that he is in a good position. And fyi, during the pbe his Q had a 1.5 Ap ratio on his final auto or something. There's a reason why It doesn't do as much damage as it should.

If you want to survive in fights for longer and do more damage get some sustain items like Hextech gunblade or something or even Steraks Gage. These two are both good items on Mord and give you more damage and survivability.

Sir Wesley1 votes

Alright, I see where you're coming from. I still don't see why you're directly referencing me however. My skill as a player nor my skill with the champion should depict my ability notice a pattern and change it.

Schàdenfreude2 votes

I never mentioned your skill although I did directly reference you. But I also openly admitted I also had no games on Mord.

Sir Wesley1 votes

You're right. You never did say anything about my skill as a player. I stand by my argument though. Calling out someone else's ability/skill, knowledge, experience, or general thought process on something, rather than bringing up a valid counterargument, is not a valid argument. It is a logical fallacy called Tu Quoque. Not trying to be a fancy pants college kid but it helps to know these things when defusing a heated argument.

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