Esports are overrated----Change my mind

DoctorJHIN4·Jun 4, 2019·2 votes·2,729 views

l think esports are overrated and that they don't deserve all of the attention they are getting, especially for lol. If you disagree tell me why. Also esports are not even close as hard to do as real sports.

58 Comments

AeroWaffleJun 4, 20196 votes

"Change my mind" posts are never made with any intention of having their opinion changed.

Change my mind.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 4, 20191 votes

l kinda said that for parody purpose. And in this case you are right, l don' think my mind can be changed but l still want to hear other peoples opinion why they disagree

AeroWaffleJun 4, 20194 votes

{quoted}

l kinda said that for parody purpose. And in this case you are right, l don' think my mind can be changed but l still want to hear other peoples opinion why they disagree

You already did this in a previous thread;

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/bf63mrrl-esport-players-are-overrated

The real question is what authority do you have to dictate what people should be paying attention to?

DoctorJHIN4Jun 4, 20191 votes

This has nothing to do with authority. l just want to hear opinions and debate that's all

ChompyWulfJun 5, 20191 votes

No you don't, you're an obstinate troll. Go bow to Trundle and gtfo.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Definition of troll is someone that want's to annoy people for his/her own pleasure,which am not.Second l bow only to lord Jhin.

GeminiRuneJun 4, 20193 votes

I like video games. Therefore I like esports. I don't have to be a pro to respect the culture and hype every game gives in its own unique way.

Both sports and esports take their own forms of dedication. And dedication is hard to come by, even if you show it.

I can go on but who am I kidding, you'll never change your mind.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 4, 20191 votes

Saying 'therefore' in this context is wrong as it implies that it's a norm for people who like games to also like esports,which is not the case. This is subjective but l can't respect the culture and hype just because of how overrated it is and just the idea of watching someone else play the same game l do and cheering them makes no sense to me. l think the hole idea of watch teams both in esports and sports have everything to do with psychological need of belonging. With sport l can at least understand it do some degree, people push there bodies to a maximum, training for most of there life and suffering countless injuries. And for esport players they just found themself being good at game they like and with time they become pros. l know that esport players 'train' a lot but let's be honest, they just sit and play 1 single game for 10 hours.There is no physical work in it. And mental work they do is nothing to be praised really.

FluffyBeatsJun 4, 20192 votes

Correcting someone's use of grammar is silly when you can't even spell "whole" correctly lol Nor did he ever say that people who play games were subjective to liking esports. He said "I" and I don't know what "I" means in your dictionary but from what I know of it it means someone's own opinion. And it's fine if you think that the mental work isn't the same as someone who trains both physically and mentally. But if you've never even tried being in a sport competitively I'm not even going to bother continuing with this conversation just because someone who has never tried to get into anything competitively doesn't understand the effort it takes to get to the level of play that the pros are at; be it esports or even sports in general.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

l corrected his use of the word 'therefore' which is not a grammar mistake, on the other side you corrected spelling mistake that l made so compering the two is pointless. And l understand what work ' I ' means but using word 'therefore' in his sentence implies that what he said before in a common and normal thing which is a generalization. Examples, 'Am poor, therefore l steal' 'l like to play football, therefore l watch football'. Did you get it? l myself didn't play any game competitively but l have friend that did, he played 1 game with his team for 5 hours a day. And as far as l know pros do the same just much more of it. And pls don't try to sell to me how people that play in a pro league need some super human reflexes, 250 IQ and so on (am joking but my point is there). These are logical thing 'pro' players need to have. -Good reflexes -Coordination -Perfect understanding of the game. -No life....(joke)

And let's be honest all of those can be earned just by playing a lot. And yes there are people that are instantly good at 1 game but that depends a lot on personality, game and so on.

GeminiRuneJun 5, 20192 votes

So instead of changing your mind, I made you have a grammar discussion...

Sounds like you got my message, but now you can't prove me wrong.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Are you sure?

GeminiRuneJun 5, 20192 votes

That's right. I mean you tried in your last comment. But that really chalks up to said "dedication" in my original comment. It can't be true to one and a not to the other.

Your turn.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Thing with this whole debate is it's most subjective but that fact stays. Physical training is much much harder than mental training. And esports are not even mental training. Chess would be a mental training. Pros spend a lot of energy and time into training but it just cannot be compered to actual physical training.

GeminiRuneJun 5, 20192 votes

You couldn't be any more wrong about esports not being a matter of mental training and even you know it. And yet you use Chess?!

Dude, compare chess to a fighting game. Chess you think of your move and make it off of that. Fighting games you have to know your opponent, know your matchup, know the frame data, AND have the capability to link movements and attacks together. You have to think and react on such narrow margins to be the best that it's not even a joke.

Even better (yet looser) example: randonized speedrun races! Doubt anyone has ever heard of those since it's been a rising trend lately.

And you say these are not a matter of mental training. Give me a fucking break!

What's sad is the rest of your logic eludes to esports needing to require intense physical exertion to be established as anything, otherwise its overrated. YET YOU USE CHESS! That's a pathetic way to cop out of the discussion and say you got nothing.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

First, did you ever play chess? l think it's ok. In chess you need to know tactics, you need to read you opponent 10 turns in advance. It may sound easy to you but believe me chess is no joke. And you just confirmed that esports requires reflexes and understanding of the game. Fighting games are even easier that mobas. Also in chess there are countless tactics that you need to now so you can understand what your opponent is doing.

GeminiRuneJun 5, 20192 votes

Used to play Chess and Checkers in fact. In no way did I assume Chess was easy. I criticized how you'll establish chess as a mental training whereas esports (particularly fighting games) is not when it clearly is. In fact if it's needing to know your opponent several moves ahead of time, why not just compare chess to Hearthstone then. Or is Hearthstone not mental training? You know? Thinking about your move, opponents moves, etc etc?

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

As a long heartstone player l would say no. This is 101% subjective but only game l would say is real mental is starcraft, as it requires 100% of brain use. But no, l don't think most esport games are mental training. l see them as training in particular game and reflexes. And most games are different so l can't just say they do 'mental' training.If that is the case than everything that isn't physical training is mental training, and that is such a wide term.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

There are 2 outcomes here. First is to consider playing most games a mental training. If that's the case than they have mental training much longer than average player. If playing games is not a mental training than, just by increasing the duration of it would not change the term.

GeminiRuneJun 5, 20192 votes

Yeah this conversation is over if you're going to use Starcraft and dismiss everything else.

Keep your opinion, I'll keep mine which disagrees with yours.

III BAKURYU III Jun 5, 20192 votes

Dude, compare chess to a fighting game. Chess you think of your move and make it off of that. Fighting games you have to know your opponent, know your matchup, know the frame data, AND have the capability to link movements and attacks together. You have to think and react on such narrow margins to be the best that it's not even a joke.

Fighting game fan? I understand every game has it's corks of such but man, each time I see people play say "Mortal Kombat" I see some a-hole get punched in a corner for 2 mins straight... it's like ' Alright, great stuff right here'. lol

GeminiRuneJun 5, 20193 votes

Started enjoying esports and competitive gaming through fighting games, notably Super Street Fighter 4 at EVO 2011. From there I jumped around to a variety of titles and tried to understand the novelty of it all.

The way you put it as 'punched in a corner for 2 mins straight' is rather lazy to describe. Anyone can just button mash their way to a win (first name that comes to mind is freaking Marn and he's not even around as often anymore). It takes someone who knows that they're going to be that predictable to dictate the tempo of a match. Every modern fighting game has its own perk about it that requires a distinct mindset and similar mental fortitude to even have a chance at landing even Top 32 at majors.

In my opinion, anyone who is all for League but hasn't explored nor given a chance to other titles in other genres and communities, then I see no discussion for someone who will entitle esports as overrated when competitive gaming has been around for over a decade or two now.

III BAKURYU III Jun 6, 20191 votes

Sorry, it's just even when I was a kid and my brothers and I would play Bloody Roar for Playstation it's always "let me get up" because the other would kick while the other was down.
Also, anytime I would watch any pro game of any fighting games it's literally what I said.

GeminiRuneJun 6, 20191 votes

I feel you there. But my example is Tekken 2 and 3 where my brother would literally break us apart using the 10-hit combo and a select few moves of Heihachi or Jack. Eventually I learned how to block every hit and even find a punish in them. Did I eventually start winning? No. That came at Tekken 6 when he didn't keep up with the game.

III BAKURYU III Jun 6, 20191 votes

I remember playing Tekken at a Hotel at the beach and would face either another player as King or I would face the AI as King and once King gets you in a hold........Your HP goes from 100-0 with his 20 suplexs and powerbombs. lol

ModKnightsKemplarJun 5, 20193 votes

Also esports are not even close as hard to do as real sports.

This seems to me to be a pretty hard thing to prove. Not as physically taxing, sure, but any time you have two teams, only one can win. And both teams are trying as hard as they can to win. How is that easier?

Sports are interesting because of that contest. eSports are no different. What I could see being true is that you, personally, simply don't find eSports interesting to watch. For the most part, that's also true for me. It's not true for League, though. The top-down nature of the game means you can often get a good view of all the action (unlike Overwatch), and I also play the game and can appreciate the intricacies of it.

they don't deserve all of the attention they are getting

I'm not sure what you think would make them "deserving" of attention, either... what does that even mean? Does basketball "deserve" attention? Does football? It's voluntary entertainment. Arguably, no sport deserves the public's attention, but the people who are interested pay attention. Because they do, advertisers can fund the operation.

I suppose you could argue that eSports isn't profitable yet, therefore isn't deserving. But any traditional sport must have gone through a similar period. In fact, many physical stadiums and parks remain money losers. The profitability of traditional sports, overall, is somewhat debatable. They are often subsidized in the form of government assistance with building stadiums, for instance.

TL;DR there's actually an interesting debate to be had here, but you didn't hit any of the interesting points in your post.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 5, 20192 votes

Also esports are not even close as hard to do as real sports.

If this is the case, why isn't 100% of the community at Challenger? Or in any case, 90%?

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Am not talking about ranked in lol am talking about esports. And no they are not easy. But they are still much easier they regular sports. Also l have a question for you, why aren't 10% of all people that play basketball in NBA?

BeatzBoyFTWJun 5, 20192 votes

Well the proplayers in LCS & MSI aren't Gold & below to be playing in proplays. And by "easy", are you referring to "how the game is played" or "how to excel in the game"? There's a huge difference in those meaning.

And maybe they arent good enough to be in NBA? It's called them needing to improve their skills, and no, don't give me that bullshit like "what about esports? How do you improve by sitting in a chair & play computer games". This is honestly a typical question a clueless parent would ask.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Can you stop saying that am saying 'easy'. l never said 'esports are easy hehe' Am just point to the facts that it is a lot 'Easier' And l see you already made a straw man out of me At this point you are saying the stuff that l did not mention once.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 5, 20191 votes

What do meant by the word "easier"? Improving your skills by sitting in a chair compared to going out to move your muscles to the max? You did not answered this question at all, and if this is your answer, then I don't know why I wasted my time asking.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Physical training is objectively harder than mental training. First pain, there is no pain in esports and for me at least pain is an important factor here. Compere this, in physical training you are pushing your body to a limit, and it hurts. In playing 1 game you are mastering that game and training reflexes. So this is a easy test to see which is harder, try physical training for 5 hours a day and than playing 1 game for 5 hours a day. In game you can analyse your gameplay and stuff like that. Also big difference are the levels of training. For example you have many levels from least to most hard in physical training. On the other hand in training in 1 game there are no levels.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 5, 20191 votes

And despite that, do you see either you or me in the proplays? I mean I've played thousand of hours in computer games compared to me going outside for a simple jog, yet I'm still a typical computer gamer like everyone else.

Both genre comes from different background & procedures, you can't just compare them like that. Anybody's given their own choice of free will to choose whether they wanted to pursue "sitting on a chair to play computer games since it's easy, or "go out & train countless hours since it's straining".

In this case, you're right. Training and eating the right food seems harder to do so than just playing League matches hours after hours, but it's not like playing a simple match of League will land you a contract with TSM. Everything takes effort no matter what you do, "easy" or not.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

l just wanted to prove that point. l never said everyone can go into pro league, there are many factors that go in to it. l made this thread just to discuss esports in general, but l find people thinking that esport and sport are on the same level of difficulty which l don't believe there are.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 5, 20191 votes

Difficulty as in the journey to reach the top, NOT how difficult it is to use your muscle to either benchpress or spam-clicking your mouse.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

That is such a wide statement. There are many factors in reach the top in both esports and sports, luck for example. For me difficulty means the commitment, struggle and time.

ChompyWulfJun 5, 20191 votes

First tell me how Esports and League Esports in particular are getting undeserved attention.

Also, you're comparing totally different activities when it comes to video games and athletics. For an Esports pro, they could never hold a candle to a professional golfer on a course, a baseball player on the diamond, or hockey player on the rink. Conversely, no pro athletes have also cracked the pro gamer ranks. Each are in elite percentiles of their respective competitions. There is no objective measure of which is harder because each requires different skill sets.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Well there is a objective measure. First of all let's say skills of both esport and sport players Esport -Knowing game perfectly -Good reflexes -Coordination(for mobas at least) -Aim(For shooters, and mobs to some degree) -Great teamwork -tactics Those things are earned just by playing the game. Sport -Good reflexes -Knowing the sport -Perfect aim(For the most sports with ball) -Great tactics -Many other skills that are sport specific And let's not forget, training every single day! Countless risks and injuries.Only injury for esport players are The carpal tunnel syndrome, back pain and maybe few more hand and back related injuries.Neither of them have a long term effects. And when l start to count all of the sport injuries l would never stop. Also death is possible.

No you said that there is no objective measure? Sports have: Risks, physical pain,physical skill, more dedication(as sport career is on longer than esport). Physical training and so much more. Only training esport players do is playing 1 game.

This has 3 factors. Physical and mental challenge, Risk vs reward and Dedication. Only thing that esport has is metal challenge, but l would still say that most sports with ball have higher mental challenge as they are not programmed and need to be improvised. No physical challenge(which is harder than mental) for esport. Esport has no risks. And much much lower dedication as a work of a esport player is much shorter than sport player.

ChompyWulfJun 5, 20191 votes

First, you are favoring your position with adjectives. "Perfect" aim, "great tactics". They need to be removed.

Second, you are confusing "difficulty" with some other things. Risk of injury doesn't make something inherently harder to do. They are separate factors. Risk of death is also laughably low in sports, a strawman argument. You also are completely assuming athletic activity is inherently more difficult than a mentally high and physically low driven activity. They are different and only your bias decides which is "harder".

Third, you laughably mention Esports careers are typically shorter than athletics, which COMPLETELY points to a higher degree of difficulty. "Beware an old man in a sport that young men quit." If athletes compete into their 30s and 40s, what does that say about Esports where most players have a dropoff by 25? It speaks to extreme peak reflexes in Esports eroding and there being no fix, while that same hyper level isn't required for stick and ball.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

Yes, but am also right for the most park. Let's be real here, what is better aim.Shooting in any fps with a gun or landing skillshots in lol or shooting in a net in basketball from medium to long range. Second point injuries have nothing do with with 'difficulty' that is true, but they are still a big thing is sport unlike esports so keeping them out of this argument would be a waste. Also it's true that death is rare but it's possible. Also lower age for esport has nothing to do with difficulty. It's just the fact that younger people will perform better, it has most to do with reflexes. And also about 'great tactics' It's true that most esports have them but just the team coordination and tactics in football(real football) can't even be compered.

ChompyWulfJun 5, 20191 votes

First, objectively speaking, hitting a moving target is inherently more challenging than practicing an athletic shot where the target is always stationary. (Score 1 for Esports)

Second, injury doesn't affect difficulty, you agree, therefore it doesn't make athletics inherently "harder". That you're still trying to bring up death is laughable. Death is extremely rare even in combat sports. Death is more likely to happen due to a riot at a soccer game than in any major sport.

You agree about reflexes and younger age being a huge factor in Esports and success. (Score another for Esports)

I agree, the tactics and strategy of football, soccer, hockey, etc...can't be compared to StarCraft, Overwatch, LoL, DOTA 2, etc...so why are you talking about that? If it's not comparable because they are totally different, why bring it up?

Also, you still haven't stated or given examples of how Esports is over hyped.

DoctorJHIN4Jun 5, 20191 votes

First, no l would take your stance on this and say it can't be compered. As it's true that hitting a moving target is hard, but the thing is that game does most work. For example most shooters have hitscan weapons, you shoot at someone and they die. In real sports you have to take physics into consideration.l would even say that it is even harder than just shooting someone moving. Not difficulty par say but it's very big fact as injuries happen a lot in sports. l never said 'death' in a context that sounds like it's a common thing. But am just saying that death CAN happen. And even more common than death are injuries for life. And they can be compered, as they are just less of them in general in esports. Teams make tactics on the spot.So l would say it's tied. It is not overrated in a usual sense. But l find the fact that entire stadiums are filled with people watching other people play the same game overrated.

ChompyWulfJun 5, 20191 votes

Now you're doing what's called "Shifting the goal posts".

You try to claim shooting a basketball is harder than landing a skillshot in LoL or shooting an enemy in a FPS. I provide a logical argument to the contrary. You then try to say the two aren't comparable then attempt to further argue why it's easier to shoot someone in a video game.

Then later you try to claim the tactics (and I think what you actually mean is strategy) of athletics and video games ARE comparable when initially you attempted to mockingly say they are incomparable and I called your bluff agreeing strategy in video games and athletics aren't comparable in terms of difficulty and challenge. For the record, strategy is strategy, it applies in war, business, law, physical and mental competition.

You simply are a shithead who will dance to always find a way to say you are right, even when you are shown to be wrong.

If you don't like Esports and think athletics are so much better then bug off and leave this forum you tool bag.

Midg3tJun 5, 20191 votes

Its not overrated but LoL esport isnt interesting for me cuz everything is so.. professional, to say it like that. If you take a look at csgo esport scene casters, audience, players... every1 are much more relaxed, it feels like they are playing the friendly matches with rewards, t aka, the are not super serious.

ModPrandineJun 18, 2019

{quoted}

Its not overrated but LoL esport isnt interesting for me cuz everything is so.. professional, to say it like that. If you take a look at csgo esport scene casters, audience, players... every1 are much more relaxed, it feels like they are playing the friendly matches with rewards, t aka, the are not super serious.

Having watched lolesports for years I'd say yes and no. Yes they're being professional but they have also been known to joke around some depending on the state of the match. In my opinion the truly great casters know how to balance this well, which takes time and effort to do so, with David Phreak Turley being a good example of one such caster. The same applies to the fans as well where yes they often want to see great matches but they have been known to joke around at times during some matches (such as cheering for ward kills in slower ones).

Midg3tJun 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Having watched lolesports for years I'd say yes and no. Yes they're being professional but they have also been known to joke around some depending on the state of the match. In my opinion the truly great casters know how to balance this well, which takes time and effort to do so, with David Phreak Turley being a good example of one such caster. The same applies to the fans as well where yes they often want to see great matches but they have been known to joke around at times during some matches (such as cheering for ward kills in slower ones).

When I say csgo scene isnt super serious I mean that they are crazy af This 2 vids are from IEM Sydney this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDmAaO-M1M8

And in this one watch the 1st clip which shows how one of pro players making a rather unique entrance whos name is...DickStacy xD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oxZXM95vnA