"TSM is going to worlds" say that again.

Kaitri·Mar 13, 2016·21 votes·4,701 views

i know everyone is a TSM TSM TSM fan so this thread will get hate as fuck idc let your anger out here mates. but seriously Renegades played not really well. crumbz was horrible, they had almost 0 communication with bard (cait ult, graves flash, lissandra flash, things that got wasted cause of bard e/r) and still tsm lost. i dont think we will see tsm at worlds. sure there is still summer and they can fix problems, but as of RIGHT NOW there is 0 chance for tsm

82 Comments

øNazríMar 13, 20168 votes

Ugh the loss could've been reversed if Yellowstar picked up his crap performance!

MrWasjigMar 14, 20162 votes

He was better on FNC.

øNazríMar 14, 20161 votes

Tis was true

iamleburkMar 21, 20161 votes

Or if dumb ass TSM let him shot call

CroaninMar 13, 20165 votes

I'm personally tired of seeing TSM at worlds anyway. They have always been pathetic at the World Stage. There superior infrastructure allows them to do well in NA because there coaching staff and analyst help them adapt to their opponents habits, but they don't adapt on the world stage quick enough at all. TSM always starts off slow and I expect them to pick it up during the Summer Split.

But TSM is thee only team in Pro League history to have the distinction of qualifying for every single World Championship, only to get embarrassed, lucky to make it out of groups.

Season 1 is Season 1, I forget what happens but no one cares, the Asian scene wasn't there yet.

Season 2 TSM fails to get out of groups and get pummeled.

Season 3 TSM fails to get out of groups and get pummeled.

Season 4 TSM make it out of groups woot! But that's only because there group was an utter joke, there was an easy Wildcard team, TPA sucked, and the EU team didn't have their full roster. They never took a game off the first seed in their group. Then they get utterly destroyed by SSB.

Season 5 TSM fails to get out of groups...surprise, surprise.

Now lets look at other Western teams that have often made Worlds. FNC the team with the 2nd most Worlds appearances always shows up, they won Season 1, failed to qualify for Season 2, defeat NA's hopes and dreams of C9 in 3 games, it was a competitive series). Lose to Royal 3-1. In Season 4 they failed to make it out of groups but were in the group of death an extremely competitive group with no Wildcard/International team to pick free wins off of. And they gave of us one of thee most competitive and entertaining games in LoL history OMG vs FNC, and took a game from Tournament favorites SSB. Season 5 they made it to the semi finals.

C9 also makes me proud, as I stated there games against FNC in Season 3 were very competitive. And sadly the silly bye system didn't let us see what they could really do only playing 3 games the entire tournament. Season 4 was spectacular. They became the first team NA team in years to defeat a Korean team against Najin "This is for Kabum" during groups. And though they lost to SSB, they gave them a serious run for their money with critics concluding that they were probably the best Western team. Season 5 our hopes rested on their shoulders and they went on a great run at first, but floundered at the end and didn't make it out of groups, but it was miracle that they even made it into Worlds. They remind me of the old M5/GG as a team that isn't the best but demands respect from the best.

So no I don't want to see TSM in Worlds again, I'd rather see Liquid or some other team, that can maybe adapt to new competition on the fly.

KaitriMar 13, 20162 votes

finally someone like me who watches since season 1 (well since season 2 you could say) and remembers shit! yea im also tired of tsm, the fake hype is just annoying everyone goes "tsm tsm tsm" when they never really showed up. and cmon iem doesnt really count.

iamleburkMar 21, 20161 votes

Ironically I think it's their coaching and infrastructure that's fucking them up so hard. They've always been pretty much carried on the back of Bjergsen.

Reginald always fucks up the coaching and shit, and that's why you see a group of proven world class players performing like they are now. Do people actually think they magically got worse this split?

Palmeiras SerieBMar 14, 20163 votes

Whatever

EU still better than NA anyway

LauchmelderMar 14, 20161 votes

The only Thing EU might be better than NA is laneswaps. Other than that IMT will sh!t on EU.

Cpt Chap StickMar 13, 20162 votes

TSM is washed up.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 13, 20162 votes

What happened to the "EU exodus." Where is all the talent NA stole from EU lol. TSM was called a Superteam at the begining of the split, who have now loss to DIG and REN.

KaitriMar 13, 20163 votes

want me to reply with a stupid joke? "even 3 koreans couldnt carry 2 na players. there is a reason you cant spell chiNA without na"

want a real answer? sven has noone to gank (bjerg to passive, hauntzer sucks, bot has problems) as already mentioned, bot has problems yellowstar seems to feel unconfortable not sure what is going on (you know what i think? he said to himself "fuck this, this is my last season i want some good money so i go to na and dont really care anymore") i also heard he doesnt practice as much as he did on fnatic. and last one is brtt>doublelift. the "best adc na" who got kicked from clg, a team he spent years in. guess there have to be reasons eh?

YCitizenSnipsYMar 13, 20163 votes

Pretty bad joke, Since OG was the only team from worlds out of EU, NA, and China without a Korean player on the roster. Looks like every region needs Koreans to carry them.

Still doesn't answer my question, where is the talent. Incarnation, who ironically never played in EU LCS, is the only EU import on a top tier team. What happened to the Eu exodus?

Ale non è maleMar 13, 20162 votes

incarnati0n was grown in EU scene and didn't play before C9 because he was banned and unavailable to grab By the way, Froggen is doing bad? Kirei that is the best player on Digni-throws? freeze that is dragged down by NA Relegades players?

the talent is there surrounded by not good NA talents, if you want to go in this direction

On a more serious note, it is clear that yellowstar is part of the problem...it is just that all the players, included bjerg and double are part of the problem, because the team does not play as a team. they win only cause sheer mechanical skills when they win, because more often than not they got outsmarted/outrotated/outhustled by their adversaries

YCitizenSnipsYMar 13, 20161 votes

There is a reason non of that "talent" was taken by top tier teams. Every one of those players you named would be a down grade on the current top 3. I mean every one of those players came from bottom tier teams in EU, and its no coincidence they found themselves in the bottom of the standings in NA as well. Sk regulated, GMB regulated, Freeze is from the CW if I'm not mistaken, which was also regulated, and Elements was a bottom tier team. Were they all held back by NA players their as well? Yellowstar being the exception and even he looks bad.

The joke that TSM is a real team needs to be ended now. Yeah they played a bad EU team and a KR challenger team at IEM. But losing to a 2-13 team as bad as they did, even with all that "talent" from the "EU exodus."

Ale non è maleMar 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There is a reason non of that "talent" was taken by top tier teams. Every one of those players you named would be a down grade on the current top 3.

Are you seriously trying to argue that Froggen would be a downgrade over Huhi and Pobelter? That Freeze would be a downgrade over Stixxay (and there is a question mark on Wildturtle since he has no pressure on him with Huni/reignover on IMT)?

Please, just stop now. And EF without the visa problems they had would likely be in playoffs on Froggen's back, just saying And yeah, SK got hold back by organizational issues (and SK has failed to hold their spot in EUCS this split by ending 5th), CW got hold back by the whole CW-Dentist mess. You can ahve an argument for Elements, but there Froggen was the last of the problems they had

TSM problems aren't due to players nationality. They are due to the fact they have not meshed well together. The players with the biggest ego have not softened by an ounce their way of thinking and the other guys are not finding a way to crack up the comunications problems and adapt as well

P.S. Gambit didn't got relegated, they sold the spot to Vitality, and who is the guy coming from Gambit you are referring to? Plus before Forg1ven ban they would have been in position to do playoffs in S5 summer

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20161 votes

Yes Froggen would be a down grade from Pob. Pobelter actually does something for his team other than farm. And CLG with Huhi, and who also passed on Freeze, aren't doing to bad right now. Don't fix what ain't broken.

TSM is just overrated that's why they are bad. This team was called a super team, made up of players from a better region. And have recently lost too the two bottom tier teams.

Alex would be the one from Gambit, who was recently benched, and imagine that REN is now winning.

Ale non è maleMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes Froggen would be a down grade from Pob. Pobelter actually does something for his team other than farm. And CLG with Huhi, and who also passed on Freeze, aren't doing to bad right now. Don't fix what ain't broken.

Froggen does only farm? Froggen has BY FAR the highest Kill partecipation in NALCS of any player with a decent sample size of games played (the only players ahead of him have played max 3 games). Has very good KS% and KDA This is either very ignorant or stupid to say. He is straigth out better than both - and this not to disrespect Pob who is playing well -

TSM is just overrated that's why they are bad. This team was called a super team, made up of players from a better region. And have recently lost too the two bottom tier teams.

Except mechanically they are a super team for Western standard. they are just bad in anything else not called mechanichs. There is shotcalling and synergy problems, and reportedly the shotcalling order that was in mind when the team was built has not been instilled in the team

Alex would be the one from Gambit, who was recently benched, and imagine that REN is now winning.

Alex was not capable to qualify in EULCS the last time he was in EU, when he has arrived in NA he was yet way far his prime, so no one has counted him into talent exodus at this point. He is a not very good import And he still boosted two teams to NALCS and now has boosted another team to NACS final beating the best NA midlaner not in NALCS - and there are 2 mid laners in NALCS coming from NA, Pobelter and Shiptur -

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20161 votes

You realize EF with Froggen have lost to TSM, IMT and now CLG. They have been beaten by every top tier team with Froggen starting except C9.

He might be better than Huhi, which isn't saying much. But I don't see anything to suggest he is better than Pob.

MrHaZeYoMar 14, 20161 votes

Pretty sure Froggen was starting vs C9 in W1D2 when EF played C9.

Ale non è maleMar 14, 20162 votes

You realize what are the other players on EF? Hard the perennial NACS gatekeeper jungler? Keith the 2 week sub called just to fire up top team ADC and then relegated to CS again? Big(Baby) that was ridiculed by a pretty bad support like Dodo 8 in the last Summer promotions? You realize how much weight he is carrying?

He is leading these guys + an unproven Challenger KR top laner to have a better record and beat NRG and TL when EF had the full roster

MasziiMar 14, 20161 votes

Just stop trying to explain stuff to this Murican fanboii.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20161 votes

Yeah yeah, its never froggens fault. The dude isn't anything impressive, he plays safe champs that can farm well, thats it. There is a reason he has only been to one worlds since season 2 and he lost to a wild card team. He isn't a top tier mid laner.

But your clearly and EU fanboy so I don't know why I'm arguing. After all they don't call em ExcUses for nothing.

Ale non è maleMar 14, 20162 votes

Well, you were saying that he only farm, and he is the guy with the highest Kill partecipation in entire NA LCS. So, Froggen fault is to be a kinda good player?

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20161 votes

Yeah, he plays ranged mages with lots of AOE. gee I wonder how he gets so many assist. A team like C9 or IMT right now who have used a bunch of different champions in the mid lane would never be where they are with Froggen. He is too one denominational. Every one in EU knew it, just like everyone in NA is finding out. Thats why he EF has lost every top 4 team these last two weeks.

And before you go blaming the team again. Bjerg made it to worlds with a TSM roster that included Dyrus, Santorin, and Lustboy, other wise known as his wards. So the whole team excuse doesn't really fly. Especially in a region as bad as NA. I don't care how great his personal stats look, he isn't an improvement for any top tier team right now becuase of how one dimensional he is.

Ale non è maleMar 16, 20161 votes

Dyrus, Santorin and Lustboy compared to the rest of NA LCS at the time were far better than what Hard, Keith and Big are now

The whole team things is just true. Dyrus, for as bad as he was, was still an average to above avetage top laner. The same for Santorin and Lustboy in their role Big is a below average support, the same is for Hard, the same is for Keith

KaitriMar 13, 20161 votes

fnc made it far in season 1 and 3 without koreans. gambit gaming made it far in season 1 2 and 3 without koreans

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20162 votes

There were no Koreans in season 1. The most either of those two accomplished in season 2 were some IEM wins. Season 3 both looked bad.

Ale non è maleMar 14, 20162 votes

Pre-Season and Season 3 Gambit at IEMs beated multiple times KR teams (Katowice they both Azubu teams back to bach in semifinal and final, IEm Finals they beated in group stage CJ Entus Blaze and IM before losing vs CJ Entus Frost in a close series in semifinal - Blaze won the tournament -) At Worlds gambit eliminated Samsung Ozone from group stage winning the tie breaker, before losing a close series with najin Black. The team that won the group in which Gambit and Samsung were in was Fnatic, that then beated C9 in that famous QF

S3 they EU teams looked less good than in S1 when they won Worlds and S2 when their teams were favourite, and the best Koreans team + Royal looked far betetr, but EU was not bad at all

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20161 votes

Most of Gambits wins over KR teams are at a time when KR was weak. They also only really have wins over bad org that didn't stand the test of time. I mean they only really beat Azubu and IM. They were like 50/50 with CJ. They lost to KT, and NJB. They beat Samsung, but afterwards SSO made the Pawn/Dade trade and became SSW, winning a tournament Gambit couldn't even get too.

I mean yeah I guess you can call beating Azubu impressive, if you over look the fact that the KR server was less than a year old and that M5/Gambit have never been comparable to a top tier KR team since.

Ale non è maleMar 14, 20163 votes

Gambit was as relevant if not more relevant than what any NA team has ever been in S3. They were a top 6-7 team in the world in S3 throughout the entire season

Azubu a bad org at the time? Azubu Frost was coming off 2nd place at S2 Worlds at that IEM where Gambit beated them, and then became CJ Frost Be 50/50 with CJ mid season 3 was an accomplishment as in Spring 2013 CJ Blaze ended 2nd and Frost 4th in Korean Spring At Worlds, they defeated the team that ended 1st in Korean Spring and 3rd in Korean Summer - Samsung being former MVP Ozone -

S3 Gambit was not on SKT or Royal Worlds level and were not as relevant as M5 was in S2, but was a very good team. So I don't know why do you want to diminish their accomplishments and what kind of point do you want to prove

LankPantsMar 14, 20161 votes

And all this is before mentioning that S2 M5 and CLG EU were the only two western teams that really competed with the Koreans since they entered the scene.

You can call S2 Koreans weak if you really want but they still wiped the floor with teams like TSM and CLG NA, as did M5 and CLG EU.

iamleburkMar 21, 20161 votes

Froggen, Freeze, Jensen, and Bjergsen are still playing very well.

And TSM was called a super team because every assumed Regi wasn't actually dumb enough to not let the guy they specifically bought for shot calling to shot call.

LankPantsMar 14, 20161 votes

What happened to the "EU exodus." Where is all the talent NA stole from EU lol. TSM was called a Superteam at the begining of the split, who have now loss to DIG and REN.

You're not going to attract the best players with the biggest paychecks. A lot of the strongest EU players stayed in EU because the team prospects were better. For example Forg1ven could be on CLG right now, he chose not to because he would have been part of a 6 man team even though he probably would have got the starter position from Stixxay for the most part and a far bigger paycheck.

I honestly think the only four players who went from EU to NA who were top prospects were Freeze, Huni, Reignover and Yellowstar. Arguably Freeze has been successful considering his circumstance, he's sure as hell not the reason why RNG are failing. Huni and Reignover have been unarguably successful.

The other players from EU who I'd consider top players are still in EU. I also assure you this isn't retrospective, I've personally considered players like Jankos to be the top of EU since mid 2014. I'd say Jankos, Kassing, Forg1ven, Vander, Cabochard, Vander, Odoamne, Febivan, Rekkles, Pretty much all of OG and maybe even xPePii (even though his team's turned to shit this year he was very good last year) looked at least as good as all the players who moved over to NA at the start of the year.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 14, 20161 votes

Huni and Reignover aren't EU. They were KR imports.

TridemMar 14, 20161 votes

All these people saying NA is all imports...

OUR COUNTRY IS ALL IMPORTS FOR GODS SAKE, NYC IS CALLED THE MELTING POT FOR A REASON!!!

KshunaMar 16, 20162 votes

Just because Renegades beat TSM once doesn't exactly mean that TSM isn't going to worlds. Definitely this is probably one of the most underperforming TSMs we have seen in a while. TSM doesnt have synergy (for fans, we emphasize on the yet) but the fact of the matter is that

A) There's a lot of time before Worlds for TSM to step it up

B) TSM has AMAZINGLY skilled players, just not the synergy to hold them together in place.

C) Anything can happen. Remember 2014 where SKT went undefeated in Korea in spring but didn't even make it to worlds? Even AFTER they won All-Stars? Remember when C9 barreled through the gauntlet last year with two reverse sweeps to put up a decent performance at 2015 Worlds?

TSM is basically at a C9 Summer Split 2015 quality point right now and while they no doubt have to find a way to mesh better I don't feel like I have enough info to make a good decision about who will make it to worlds. Even Immortals are looking shaky these last few weeks. So many top teams are 1-1 with other top teams so there's really little ground to base any opinions off of. TSM sometimes is notorious for losing to bottom teams sometimes. They have never had a first week in a split where they havent gone 1-1. As a TSM fan I can't wait to see what happens to TSM in the future.

ScriptBrandMar 13, 20161 votes

i'm a tsm fan and IDC at this point. yellowstar is by far the weakest link. there may be other weak links, but yellowstar is so freakin bad. who cares if he can shotcall well, he has the mechanics of a gold player.

KaitriMar 13, 20163 votes

you sure?

check this http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/TUuiXLoE-who-do-you-blame-for-tsms-lose-against-ever and tell me again who has gold mechanics and is bad on tsm right now. everyone always blames doublelifts support... there is a reason why he got kicked from his last team you know?

ScriptBrandMar 13, 20162 votes

ughh...what planet are you from? doublelift and aphro never looked this fkin bad. it's 100% yellowstar. no one ever said aphro was bad, what are you smoking? Yellowstar has looked bad all split and has given first blood in almost EVERY game they've had

KaitriMar 13, 20162 votes

so when the best adc in na gets kicked out of the team he was on for years, there is no chance that doublelift is a toxic fucker? everything is fine he is fine he just got kicked because everyone is so fine and funny? yellowstar made some big plays at worlds and there werent any big changes to supports in season 6. blaming it all on yellowstar seems like the easiest thing, but thats not the right thing.

also i never mentioned aphro a single time in any of my posts lol... not sure who is smoking something here...

ScriptBrandMar 13, 20161 votes

probably because aphro was doubles only support up to this point and you said "it's always double's support" so you are either talking about yellow or you are talking about aphro. being toxic has nothing to do with yellowstar firing off garbage ults, diving into 2v5 fights and all the other crap he's done. whatever he might have had on FNC didn't transfer here.

Ale non è maleMar 13, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=PENG YILlANG,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qygAV7Oc,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-13T22:16:46.147+0000)

whatever he might have had on FNC didn't transfer here.

He had the shotcalling, which TSM isn't allowing him to have cause Bjergsen and Double voices conflicting with his voice From a mechanical point of view Yellow wasn't really that good S5, it was just that his game QI that made up for it and lead FNC

Muted SummonerMar 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you sure?

check this http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/TUuiXLoE-who-do-you-blame-for-tsms-lose-against-ever and tell me again who has gold mechanics and is bad on tsm right now. everyone always blames doublelifts support... there is a reason why he got kicked from his last team you know?

You are right everyone does blames doubles support but lately doubles supports has been playing bad. Giving 1st blood a lot or just giving kills for no apparent reason. Haunter has also been performing bad as well. Im not saying double isn't playing bad either but yellowstar as been horrid and so has haunter. Haunter either dies so much or he waste mana constantly.

This renegade game showed how bad yellowstar and haunter has been playing. It wasn't just their fault but they were the biggest offenders including the lulu pick.

Who ever also made that dumb call on TSM to trade top tower for bot when the enemy had herald buff needs a good talking to. Horrible call.

KaitriMar 13, 20161 votes

agreed, but you cant just say "its all yellows mistakes" he isnt performing well yes but i think hauntzer is much worse. yellowstar still lands his skills etc, while hauntzer loses a fight as fiora against nauti where he is like 2 items up because HE HAS NO MANA. also sven has noone to gank. bjerg plays passive it feels like, hauntzer is meh and bot has enough problems already

Muted SummonerMar 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

agreed, but you cant just say "its all yellows mistakes" he isnt performing well yes but i think hauntzer is much worse. yellowstar still lands his skills etc, while hauntzer loses a fight as fiora against nauti where he is like 2 items up because HE HAS NO MANA. also sven has noone to gank. bjerg plays passive it feels like, hauntzer is meh and bot has enough problems already

I haven't been saying its all yellowstar. The fact is Yellowstar is performing bad giving off kills when he shouldn't be. Haunter is been performing bad as well.

MasziiMar 14, 20161 votes

A lot of those kills also come from saving teammates who get caught.

Muted SummonerMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A lot of those kills also come from saving teammates who get caught.

1 death Braum. Dies saving Svenskeren-Elise. Elise 1st mistake to far past mid tower, taking free damage from Cait. Gets hit from Gragas ult. Braum dies saving Elise from Cait before Lissandra gets there to ult. Elise flashes to avoid Lissandra.

Trundle dies in the enemy jungle being somewhere he shouldn't have been. Could have lived had he flashed in to Baron Pit to escape Gragas. He Knew Graves was coming who just ran through a ward. Decides to try and run through 2 enemies. TSM does secure Dragon during his "sacrifice"

Braum kills himself getting himself stunned and Trundle by a Q that would not have stunned by Bard as he W's and E's to trundle.

That mistake was on yellowstar. Trundle would not have got stunned if Braum didn't jump into the Q just to "die" for trundle who wasn't in any threat.

Svenskeren dies but Gragas, Bard is killed. Could have been worse Crumbz-Gragas whifs his ult on Doublelift-Jhin (saves Jhin). Elise is dying to Caityln autos but is building MR against Lissandra because Lissandra is securing the kills on Elise.

Bjergson dies at bot against Graves lissandra in 2 secs for no reason trying to save Trundle when Trundle was already saved when Lulu casted ult on Trundle. Lulu trades life for no appearant reason who took almost point blank autos from Graves.. Must have assumed Lulu with item 3100 item 3092 item 1026 was enough to kill a Graves with item 3812 item 3155 item 3134 who took damage from Lissandra Ultimate on Trundle. Elise then dies after running straight towards EGraves, gets pincered by Bard and Gragas. Not sure what he was thinking. He should have known Gragas Bard was coming as they were on the way from mid following Elise/etc.

Elise eventually gets some Armor.

Braum dies for starting a fight and whiffing an ult pretty badly because Elise took about 400 damage. Elise wasn't in danger but Braum's fingers was to fast. Braum gets himself killed and Elise for starting a fight they couldn't have won. All tsm has is mostly single target damage. They need picks not team fights. Renegade secures Baron. Haunter dies trying to stop it with a dead jungler. Braum then dies again for no reason also with a misplaced E. Jhin/Lulu dies defending their base while 2 team mates are dead.

Renegades win. I retract my statement with trundle being the worse in actuality. Elise-trundle-Braum performed horrible with Bjergson barely coming in. Not a fan of doublelift but he played the best on his team but he wasn't a shining hope either. He was just there but not dying til the end.

Bjerg and double played the best that game but bjerg made 1 mistake at bot besides the Lulu pick. Jhin couldn't carry because Elise-Trundle-Braum were to busy dying, there was no protect the adc comp because the rest of the team needed a protect the team comp.

The whole team didn't die much by solo Q standards but in lcs play a few kills is all it takes to go on a losing game strategy.

These guys are better than me in every way of the game. It was almost as if they cracked under pressure. i expected me to perform like that in the given scenario if not worse, not them. They are better than that and they performed horrible for LCS expectations.

C9 Scott Free Mar 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mute Scarecrow,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qygAV7Oc,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-03-13T22:20:59.522+0000)

You are right everyone does blames doubles support but lately doubles supports has been playing bad. Giving 1st blood a lot or just giving kills for no apparent reason. Haunter has also been performing bad as well. Im not saying double isn't playing bad either but yellowstar as been horrid and so has haunter. Haunter either dies so much or he waste mana constantly.

This renegade game showed how bad yellowstar and haunter has been playing. It wasn't just their fault but they were the biggest offenders including the lulu pick.

Who ever also made that dumb call on TSM to trade top tower for bot when the enemy had herald buff needs a good talking to. Horrible call.

Hauntzer has been the best looking player on TSM when they don't fuck him in Pick ban phase lol. DL still has bad positoning and so does YS. Bjerg is still good but not blowing up people one v one and Sven basically doesn't exist. Keep in mind TSM never plays around top lane so that might be a large part of why you feel like Hauntzer is bad.

ElwynnMar 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=C9 Feel The Bern,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qygAV7Oc,comment-id=0001000000010001,timestamp=2016-03-13T23:11:33.123+0000)

Hauntzer has been the best looking player on TSM when they don't fuck him in Pick ban phase lol. DL still has bad positoning and so does YS. Bjerg is still good but not blowing up people one v one and Sven basically doesn't exist. Keep in mind TSM never plays around top lane so that might be a large part of why you feel like Hauntzer is bad.

Sven is so invisible seraph didnt even see him during the handshake Kappa