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Riot, you think these are exciting games?

Kyryck··144 votes·6,278 views

Riot, the changes you have made to the game with the increased death timers and vision changes and such have done the exact opposite of making exciting games. More than ever now it is boring and dull until late. Once it is late, there is no coming back. One team fights, they win, and then use these stupid death timers to simply put the other team into a hole that they can't claw back from. You have your shoutcasters screaming at the end of the matches, but screaming about something doesn't make it exciting. Having a team fight at their nexus isn't exciting, it's boring. Because win or lose, they're done. They're not going to win, even if they win that particular holding action.

Essentially games are boring and decided at one fight. The games aren't even shorter by all that much like you planned. You've given up excitement and multiple fights in the game for an extra what? Two minutes or three minutes of game shortening?

Jesus, Jatt JUST admitted as much when he said that the C9 vs. TSM game was "about 25 minutes of stuff that isn't fun to analyze and 4 minutes of stuff that is."

THAT is what you want for your game? Long periods of boredom with one brief spat of 'excitement' and you think that will draw in new viewers?

Get it together. This is the only season thus far that I'm actually feeling my enthusiasm for watching diminish rather than grow. Each week I get to see at least three of the five games be utterly boring. Usually more than that.

84 Comments

PogChampEleGiggl68 votes

I thought raising the death timer was the most retarded idea ever, +1

IceKingChernobog37 votes

that and completely nerfing vision

A Miss Fortune16 votes

I don't even understand why they thought vision was a problem. It catered to poor players who never upgraded their trinkets or warded at all and heavily punished well-rounded players for using what's at their disposal. Simply dumbed down the game.

Anidan4 votes

I can sorta see what they were going for, because with a lot of wards on the map you increase safety, and those 'big plays' start looking a lot less flashy when you realized how far ahead they were planned because of the ward coverage that spotted out the victim. In addition, with more wards the decidedly un-fun split-pushing was also safer and harder to punish because he could see you coming much easier than now.

That said, it failed spectacularly because with less vision on the map you play much safer and more paranoid, so those 'big plays' are probably going to come out even less because of the risk involved with less vision, and a good few other reasons.

For Carthage6 votes

I can actually understand the point of removing purchasable wards - remember any of the LCS games? The riveting 20 minutes of just straight ward clearing? The multiple games where the jungler turned into an actual ward-clearing bot? My what fascinating footage - 5 minutes of just removing sight and me sitting there going, "Yeah boi, get dat ward! Teach it who's boss!"

Vision makes things safer and easier to plan out and accomplish, while also making the entire thing boring as fuck if all it's going to be is a war over it - not even a good one. Just passive-aggressive clearing.

This was a step in the right direction, but Riot goes to extremes way too often before settling in a middle-ground - they should have had the vision trinkets be more bloody useful so that the game became less about wards-wards-wards-wards-wards and more about, "Okay, so we have a limited amount of wards. We need to plan out where we want this coverage and how we're going to go about doing it." Do you want dragon covered with wards or baron covered with wards? Do you want to split them down the middle and risk having spots uncovered? The old way was one team dominated, had total coverage, and leaving the base became impossible - the new way is nobody has coverage, everybody's confused where anyone is, the entire game's a joke, and fuck this shit I quit. The way it should be is we have our target objected warded out, we have some defensive wards in case something happens, and we're set to go.

Then they push down a tower and dragon.

Then they hear baron die.

Then they go, "Fuck we misplayed our wards, we need to plan better next time."

Instead of it being, "Fuck we have no wards at all because it's an entire fucking minute before I can even get another one and clearing trinkets last for 12 seconds. Like, the fuck."

LordFluffyJr1 votes

I remember in one worlds game there was a pink ward in the bottom side jungle in that bush near wolves and mid lane. One announcer literally talked about it for at least 4 minutes when the pink was up for 5. It was brutal. I can't remember the announcer, hes from the Europe scene though.

Jeddy0175 votes

Actually,labeling Mordekaiser as a "Marksman" was the most illogical idea ever.Thankfully,someone fix that mistake.

PogChampEleGiggl24 votes

The mods are going to delete this for being in the wrong section btw, copy/paste it into gameplay

LordFluffyJr1 votes

Isn't that all Riot does when looking at the forums? I can post a bug about my client crashing 24/7 and no one notices then when I post that client crash in e sports, they notice it asap.

MeilinII1 votes

RIOT =/= forum moderators. The mods arn't RIOTers and can't help with client issues.

Efij17 votes

I totally agree. One team fight and the game seems to be over because of these increased death timers. Teams can't come back.

hopeful42 votes

There were plenty of comebacks this season and its quite sad that you use one game to generalize an entire meta. I dont like the current pro meta but the comeback ratio is higher than season 5

ValyrianBlade17 votes

I feel like death timers need to be higher in the early-mid game, and lower in the late game.

I think it's ridiculous that you can get a few kills in the early game and can't even take the turret in your lane off of it because the enemy respawns and gets back to lane before you can push a second wave into the turret (and often the first wave was somewhat depleted from before you got the kill) (and you should be recalling to spend that advantage before they get back to lane).

Then mid game you can get a few kills and it will net you one objective, or two at most. Win a 4v4 dragon fight 4-0? You'll probably get dragon and 1 outer turret.

Then it comes to late game. The turret count can be 7-0 in favor of your team, but the enemy team either gets a catch or a good outplay or outscaled or who knows. Whatever happened, they get even a mere 4-2 teamfight win (so they have 3 alive, you have 1) and can easily push down mid outer, inner, and inhibitor turrets. If they aced you with even only 1 or 2 people alive they can often take an inhibitor as well. If the game's past 50 minutes? You can literally go from having not lost a single turret to watching your nexus explode on your only death of the entire game. Not a fan of that at all, and I've had it happen to me.

Let me get a real map advantage from plays in the early game. Don't just make my champion stronger so I can stomp my lane opponent - that's not fun for the opponent at all.

Reduce kill gold slightly, reduce kill xp significantly, increase death timers in the early game slightly (say 15-20 seconds), increase death timers in the mid game (say 25-30 seconds), and decrease death timers in the late game (cap them at around 40 seconds...).

The Loveless2 votes

YES. I almost said this in my post - short death timers irritate me because I can't do anything midgame with my small victory but maybe love tap a tower twice and then scurry back so I can get my health before someone spawns and kills me.

NichtHurz1 votes

I think it's okay that a team can just push from the outer turret to the Nexus if the enemy team still failed at finishing the game at minute 50. What really bugs me are the really super low death timers early and the pretty insane death timer once you're somewhere between mid and end game. The punishment possible for losing a teamfight around minute 35 is just way too much.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

I agree with most of this.

The reason I don't like one ace ending the game at the post 50-minute mark (especially if it's a 5-4 ace) is that a team which has been consistently outplayed the entire match can win with one good decision / outplay / catch going in their favor.

I wouldn't mind at all if mid inner turret was already down and they only had to take the inhibitor turret onwards after the ace, that would mean the team has at least taken some objectives (and therefore made some good plays already) prior to the won teamfight.

I've had a handful of games where my team will be consistently and slowly building a lead. We're talking really close games where the gold lead graph is steadily climbing in our favor at a constant rate and only around 3-4k by the 50 minute mark. We've made maybe 4 or 5 strategic outplays to the enemy team's 0. We've taken all 6 lane turrets, and often 2 or 3 inhibitor turrets and even an inhibitor and sometimes even nexus turrets, and meanwhile the enemy team has either 0 turrets or possibly top/bot outer turret (often only 1 of them). Then one person makes one mistake, or the enemy team makes a sick outplay in a teamfight, or anything along those lines, and we get aced and literally watch as 5 turrets, an inhibitor, and a nexus are all destroyed while we're dead.

I don't think any one mistake should be worth 7 objectives at any time in the game. 3 is more than acceptable, 4 is a tough pill I can swallow, 5 or 6 is starting to get really unreasonable, but 7 is just outright ludicrous. I mean, a 5-0 ace? Sure, they should definitely be able to take everything because that's a huge outplay. If it was a close teamfight that resulted in the winner taking 3 or 4 casualties though, I think it's pretty unfair.

Keevalroy16 votes

Didn't you hear Riot? They know that this season is going in the right direction and we'll be happy with the results.

Cough! Bullshit! Cough, cough!

ModJikker9 votes

If I hear them say "And, yeah, I guess that's the end of the game" one more time...

StormMasterJJ9 votes

Then dont loose team fights.

Photos of Ghosts4 votes

Yea, you should try tighting them.

Earl Eulrich7 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/JzvdRVcR-lb-vs-giants

->wrote basically the same two days ago, it´s really absolutly not the right direction they are pushing right now - but riot somehow has this horribly wrong pride of never going back on a mistake.

The Loveless5 votes

Cassiopeia

SpecterVonBaren7 votes

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0c/0cd64e18de229bd1064157716c8d60fb8bed31d53d556f872707f71d47d85d4d.jpg

Sorry, first thing i thought of when I read that.

Nyaboron5 votes

Some of them can be wars of attrition but it's not as bad as last year's attrition. Did you miss the liquid v fox game? Comebacks can and do happen. I've already had a few in soloqueue. If you aren't having fun then that's partly on you, because I enjoy most of the changes to the game (except the sighstone changes v.v).

Dengeden5 votes

It's not Riot's fault that teams play safe. It's an issue the game itself has. Yes death timers are ridiculous but the fact is, again, early game is way too safe. Supports can facetank damage for the ADC. Teams can trade towers. Aggression is the jungler's job, everyone else sits back.

Last season wasn't any better, teams bought double sightstone and waited for the other team to slip up with their vision.

InHaruhiWeTrust4 votes

muh item 3362 and old item 3341 upgrade i miss you so Q.Q i still cry everyday along withitem 2049 nerfs ='('''''''''''''''''''''

DrCyanide4 votes

Having a team fight at their nexus isn't exciting, it's boring. Because win or lose, they're done. They're not going to win, even if they win that particular holding action.

I feel compelled to bring this up... Skip to 46:30 if you want.

https://youtu.be/NBQ1KdfXoxY

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

"Once it is late, there is no coming back. One team fights, they win, "

That must explain that TL game last week or SKT vs ROX game 1. Its also funny how everyone here was bitching about games snowballing to fast and being decided in the laning phase. Now that the teams are playing at a slower pace and the games are being decided by teamfights people still bitch.

I think people like you just don't need to watch competitive play

rtbf221479707 votes

Completely missing the point. Longer death timers yields more snowballing. If you win lane decisively you pretty much can't lose late now.

YCitizenSnipsY5 votes

Team Liquid was down 11-0 at 35 mins of a game they ended up wining. In SKT vs ROX game 1 SKT had inhibitors down one nexus turret down and minions in the base and still took a baron fight, they not only won the fight but went on to win the game.

I don't think you even watch the LCS or at least not enough of it if you believe that, Hell Jin Air is making a habit of stalling out games in KR right now, which got them a 2-0 win over SKT earlier this season.

And I still love how everyone was originally complaining about how the games ended too quick, seriously go look up the threads about the LCS from earlier this month, and now people are complaining the opposite. None of you know what you want for "entertainment" in the LCS.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

just because in 1 out of 100 games a miracle happens doesn´t mean anything - in previous seasons lategame comebacks had been a lot more frequent and teams could do more to defend themselves, instead of just hoping for their opponents to throw.

right now most teams trade towers for 15min because you really can´t risk falling behind early on anymore as the game just snowballs way to hard at that stage.

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

In season 4 which was known to frequently go late, teams started off 4v0 on opposite sides of the map and immediately traded tier one and two towers. I don't know how long you have been watching competitive to believe tower trading is something new or that you think it wouldn't happen in a more late game oriented meta because it did.

And that still doesn't explain how threads were getting a lot of up votes about how the game ends too quick and being decided in the laming phase, and no that hey are dragging on and being decided by team fights their are still complaints. I'll say it again, none of you know what you want for entertainment in the LCS.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

this is still the same issue? this is about games being ridiculously snowbally - which is absolutly why there had and still are complains about games ending to quick.

in proplay though rarly people throw games in the first 10min, but you see it clearly how games are often deceided by one single fight between 25-35min this season.

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

There were complaints when games regularly went to 50 mins, and the team with the better late game comp won. Snowballing isn't an issue if games are still going late and being decided by 1 team fight, that's pretty much how it has always worked. The might finish slightly quicker than they used to but they still happen the same.

If a game is controlled form start to finish, people complain. If a game is decided by a late game team fight, people complain. A bunch of you just need to stop watching the LCS already because you don't know what you want.

rtbf221479702 votes

More action! More risk taking! #LCSBigPlays! That's why I watch. Not to see them trade towers and do all this stupid lane swapping "meta" bullshit then mindlessly farm for 30 minutes followed by one decisive team fight and push to win. I want to be entertained not listen to Jatt or Phreak ramble about nothing because the game is so boring they've even lost interest...

Kabraxis1 votes

{quoted}

In season 4 which was known to frequently go late, teams started off 4v0 on opposite sides of the map and immediately traded tier one and two towers. I don't know how long you have been watching competitive to believe tower trading is something new or that you think it wouldn't happen in a more late game oriented meta because it did.

And that still doesn't explain how threads were getting a lot of up votes about how the game ends too quick and being decided in the laming phase, and no that hey are dragging on and being decided by team fights their are still complaints. I'll say it again, none of you know what you want for entertainment in the LCS.

The problem is you shouldn't be basing what normal people do/get time wise based off LCS games.

hopeful42 votes

You realize that this thread is exactly about LCS games?

Kabraxis2 votes

{quoted}

You realize that this thread is exactly about LCS games?

Was that directed at me?

If so, my response is they are adjusting the game based on the absolute minority who it would effect. The changes they make DON'T JUST AFFECT LCS GAMES it affects everyone playing the game.

Divewing3 votes

One look at the Korean LCS tells you everything. You have 1 team (ROX) goon squadding with multi-man ganks that are really hard to see coming because, aye lmao no wards. Or like every other team, they lane swap, get the top AND bot outer turrets, then come mid for an ARAM match, because the vision isnt there to make any primarily calculated map movements and/or plays, theres too much risk involved, and at the highest level of play, you will 9 times out of 10 take the play that has the least risk.

And I also dont recall long games being boring for certain, some of 2015's VERY BEST games went on for close to, and over, 1 hour (FNC v UOL, and Game 4 SKT v CJ Entus comes to mind).

AninLegions7773 votes

I think it's a good thing. This way it will get easier with time to quit LoL.

AquariusGine2 votes

wt f... I thought i was imagining my death timers being unusually long

The Bearded Bard2 votes

Oh man I knew it felt like I was dead for way longer! I don't remember reading about it though, just had a feeling.

Although I agree with the whole vision changes thing. I didn't at first, but saw the light (or lack thereof). You're not supposed to be able to ward every part of the map at all times. This whole less vision thing will take some getting used to, but as a whole, I think it makes the game a bit more healthy.

Spaceman5pff2 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/6cf3908f8ddc0579886a2d88b5cb0320.png

This game was an hour long, as you can see there were several small comebacks which were then lost, and Red team spent most of the time in the lead. At 1:02 blue team won. ONLY 900 GOLD LEAD AT 62 MINUTES. ONLY 4 WARDS VARIANCE.

This game JUST happened and was exciting as shit. Shoutout to their Corki and Tahm Kench for being fucking great at this game. Shoutout to my Shen for saving my ass after I Rengared their carries

Here is some more info for those interested. https://i.gyazo.com/82276c7cb66e17e55bdb261ab20df4a6.png

NOTE: Unfortunately it was a normal game so I don't think it is public on my match history, and I don't want to link it bc I think it would count as calling out other summoners.

The Loveless2 votes

S2 worlds is still the best IMO. It's been getting more boring each year since teams want to play extra safe for their reward money. Didn't someone at TSM tell Turtle not to be flashy and just play like Cop? I think it's a combination of the game Riot gives us and the esport coaches. So if anything, Riot has to mold their game in a way that makes it so the coaches can't restrict their players so much by limiting what they want them to do.

JerulEon1 votes

What about SOCCER? Most of it are long periods of time with nothing happening, just the ball being kicked back and forth and a low amount of actual scoring -- yet its the most popular sport in the world!!!!

This is kinda unrelated but that's what I thought when I saw the "Long periods of boredom with one brief spat of 'excitement'".

Serika Zero4 votes

its called football, not soccer ;) every nation in this world calls it football or something similar, because you use your feet to play with the ball......... then we have Americans with......... soccer ........ there's not even a logic behind that

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUNE,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=pEwkfEvZ,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2016-01-31T19:54:03.460+0000)

its called football, not soccer ;) every nation in this world calls it football or something similar, because you use your feet to play with the ball......... then we have Americans with......... soccer ........ there's not even a logic behind that

There is an actual reason behind the use of 'soccer' - basically any country that has another sport called 'football' uses 'soccer'. Obviously Americans have American football but in Ireland we call it soccer because we have a sport called Gaelic football. It's an easy way to avoid confusion between multiple sports which would otherwise all share a name.

Serika Zero1 votes

http://images.memes.com/meme/4440.jpg 1 picture worth 1000 words ;)

and good to know in Ireland, there's another place where you play "football" with your hands

JerulEon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUNE,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=pEwkfEvZ,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2016-01-31T19:54:03.460+0000)

its called football, not soccer ;) every nation in this world calls it football or something similar, because you use your feet to play with the ball......... then we have Americans with......... soccer ........ there's not even a logic behind that

Yeah that's a completely different discussion altogether LMAO. Idk us Americans wanted to be different from the rest of the world... But you see my point about how people can still appreciate a sport or video game that has periods of non-action in it with sprinkled in explosive moments of excitement.

NichtHurz1 votes

Well, of course there are quite stalled out football games, but no team will ever just not try to score a goal unless as they don't have a clear or they just need a tie to get to the next round/win the championship/etc. In the high lvl team tournaments you will most likely not see one team not trying to give their best to get a lead and win the game. In LoL's high lvl play it feels like Chelsea a few years ago. Just don't do anything, farm, take outer turrets, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, teamfight, end the game. Chelsea won the Champions League this way, but it wasn't even close to having good matches. They just stood in front of their goal and kicked the ball to nirvana...and they didn't do this because they had a weak team or were underdogs in the tournament, they just pulled this off every single game, even against far worse teams. It's just insanely unpleasant to watch such games and crazy boring after 20 minutes of pure farming in LoL where nothing ever happens. It should be a strategy in certain games and matchups, but not in almost every single game. In football I rather watch a match where no goal is scored but where I get the feeling the teams just tried everything to do it and fought over every single ball as good as they could. You actually don't get that feeling when watching recent LoL Matches in the pro scene.

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