I am really disappointed in CLG, and coming from a TSM fanboy that's saying something. I really like Pobelter, I thought he did really well this season, but suddenly he just got replaced from CLG. And from the looks of it he isn't happy about it. Personally I think Xmithe should be replaced before Pobelter, but that's just me. In any case Pobelter has done really well this season in the LCS and even performed well at worlds. Why did CLG replace him?
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesI would have to agree. I don't really think they even need replacements (THEY WON THE NA LCS! THEY WENT TO WORLDS!), but if they absolutely had to, it should be Xmithie.
Awkward Couch1 votesThe one thing I will say about Xmithie is that his team loves him. When his visa issues finally got cleared up, CLG was really happy that they got him to play. I don't really like him but if he meshes well with the team then that means a lot as well.
Korillo2 votesDoublelift, Aphro and Zion should just go to TSM imo
Facy1 votesAphro maybe the weakest support at worlds.... Zion got completly exposed and got his ass kicked, he cant play carry tops against worldclass toplaners at all and lacks the raw skill it seems. LiftLift never showed that hes a worldclass ADC at any international tournament and i dont get why ppl still hype him when all he shows is how hes not on par with worldclass ADCs (maybe its also aphros fault for being so damn bad). TSM can have 2 more imports and then just need to find 2 NA players that might not fail which will be a miracle if they find those players noone ever saw.
Awkward Couch1 votesI really like the Rush hour bot lane. I think they work well together. I agree Aphro didn't have a great showing, but I still think the Rush Hour bot lane is still really good. The unfortunate thing is, CLG has this bad habit of replacing at least one player every split. As far as the TSM point, I honestly don't know if Bjerson will stay with TSM much longer. Turtle isn't even guaranteed his position and they have 3 empty roles to fill. TSM is gonna have a tough year.
Facy1 votesA tough year? U mean it could be worse then this year? I doubt it, i think it cant get worse for them.
Linthe1 votesI thought he started well but tailed off..
I do agree with you about Xmithie though.
JimmyNtheKudos1 votesPobelter was inconsistent, but obviously if one person had to go it would have to be Xmithie. In his best moments he was barely average.
Ricketts1 votesSorry, but until we see some of the absolute best NA players leave their respective teams to form a new one or group up on one squad already existing, there's little or no hope for seeing an NA champ the next couple years anyway. So what's the point in talking about this weak link or that weak link when NA doesn't even have a clear star player?
Awkward Couch1 votesAre you talking about what Xpeke did with Origin? While I think that would be awesome, I don't think it will happen. As far as your point of NA champions being years away, I really would like to disagree. Don't get me wrong I think is a super long shot of any NA teams getting to let's say semi finals at worlds, but this year NA did alright at worlds. Now CLG and TSM were disappointing. TSM had some internal issues as well as losing the summer split no one really expected them to do well and they did win a game which was nice. CLG should have made it out of groups but they did alright. C9 was expected to get dumpstered but went 3-0 first day. I'm not claiming that NA is the best region but we can still hold our own. Just because we didn't win doesn't mean we should just give up. Why not go for the gold?
Ricketts1 votesOk, I guess my first post came off more downer than intended. CLG and C9 falling apart when they had chances to advance was embarrassing. They each started well, but it became clear they had no depth of strategy and were unable to break down and take advantage of gaps on other teams. That could be fixed in a year on its own, possibly. If C9 has no roster changes, they could be back stronger if they make this adjustment. Assuming Hai re-retires, they are probably set back another season building chemistry with a new team member. TSM's roster is basically gone now, so barring a miracle melding, they'll take at least two years to be back stronger. CLG needs to find another good teammate to plug somewhere. A better mid or jung to help Zion, whether Rush Hour won't work and Aphro needs to go....CLG just needs another talent shot. Ultimately, there is a lot of better Asian stars, so until we see them either dispersing across more teams or moving on from LoL, I have a hard time seeing an American team coming together that can be a top challenger, barring a star team like what Xpeke pulled together in Origin happening in NA. So I guess my point is, why argue about which part is weakest on what team, when the best NA player is Bjerg, and right now he basically has no team?
Awkward Couch1 votesNo worries about coming off as a downer. I like having a healthy conversation. I must admit I'm pretty bais because I'm in NA so I really want them to succeed. I think part of the problem with NA as a region is that we no best of x series. Even a best of 2 would be better to get teams prepared for a world stage. I think there is a huge skill gap between NA and other regions, but I want them to succeed so badly. Maybe the Rush hour bot lane needs to go because you can't get rid of just one of them. The problem is right now there is a lack of bot lane talent, not to mention Renegades need an ADC and C9 needs a support or jungler. The problem is that one team can only have 2 outsiders on their team, that's where TSM runs into problems. But I think TSM has bigger problems in the fact that Reggie is still the head coach for TSM. Maybe TSM can pull an all star line up like Origin did but I highly doubt it.
As far as diversity in strats, I agree NA seems to be behind in the times. This is where I think my inner Monte comes out because let's be honest, Korea is the best region in the world right now. Until NA can start pulling stuff like that off, there will almost always be a Korean world champs.
PS Thank you for explaining yourself, I do agree that skill alone will not help NA and I really don't mean to attack you. But on the C9 Hai is not re retiring, they are actually holding try outs for jungle and support. If they find a support Hai will stay jungle. If they find a jungle then Hai will play support (C9 Rush confirmed?). I can provide you a link if you wish.
PPS Thank you for engaging in this conversation I really do like hearing other people's opnions. XD
PoisonedTea1 votes[{quoted}](name=Awkward Couch,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=dTij0hL9,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-30T04:30:57.073+0000)
No worries about coming off as a downer. I like having a healthy conversation. I must admit I'm pretty bais because I'm in NA so I really want them to succeed. I think part of the problem with NA as a region is that we no best of x series. Even a best of 2 would be better to get teams prepared for a world stage. I think there is a huge skill gap between NA and other regions, but I want them to succeed so badly. Maybe the Rush hour bot lane needs to go because you can't get rid of just one of them. The problem is right now there is a lack of bot lane talent, not to mention Renegades need an ADC and C9 needs a support or jungler. The problem is that one team can only have 2 outsiders on their team, that's where TSM runs into problems. But I think TSM has bigger problems in the fact that Reggie is still the head coach for TSM. Maybe TSM can pull an all star line up like Origin did but I highly doubt it.
As far as diversity in strats, I agree NA seems to be behind in the times. This is where I think my inner Monte comes out because let's be honest, Korea is the best region in the world right now. Until NA can start pulling stuff like that off, there will almost always be a Korean world champs.
PS Thank you for explaining yourself, I do agree that skill alone will not help NA and I really don't mean to attack you. But on the C9 Hai is not re retiring, they are actually holding try outs for jungle and support. If they find a support Hai will stay jungle. If they find a jungle then Hai will play support (C9 Rush confirmed?). I can provide you a link if you wish.
PPS Thank you for engaging in this conversation I really do like hearing other people's opnions. XD
Here the real truth as everything goes TSM and Fnatic always make worlds. I don`t see that changing. They have just been the best managed teams in the west(even if TSM has coaching issues). The issue these teams have are facing are not the same as other teams in the west who have bad management(and players at times).
Now RNG may be able to show how they have good management next year.
but teams like clg NO, C9 Not so much but improving. Liquid NO NO NO, Gravity Maybe they did better then most expected.
Awkward Couch1 votesI haven't really seen RNG play much, but going from challenger to Pro are two completely different beasts. Especially when you look at the only two players who have been in the LCS before are Alex and Crumbzz. The advantage Origin had when they made their run at worlds is they had all players with previous LCS experience and I think all of them have worlds experience. I'm hopeful that RNG does well but I'm not sure, Coast has come back from challenger and ended up finishing out the season 0-18.
TSM has really big management issues right now. If we look at the TSM that showed up in the spring split at the beginning of the year, they were dominant. Once TSM got a few loses, they started going on tilt and Reggie didn't help that at all. I think one of the worst things Reggie did was threaten Dyrus and Turtle telling them if they don't step up their game they would be cut lose. If the team is already on tilt, putting them more on tilt isn't going to do any good. TSM also brought in Keith for a game this summer split. Right now all we know for sure about TSM is that Bjerson is the only one that is staying for sure. TSM is holding try outs for ADC so Turtle isn't guarenteed his spot, not to mention they need a new jungle, top, and support.
C9 is keeping most of their roster. I think that C9 made a good comeback after almost being put into the relegation tournament then going to worlds. I think that Hai is a really good shout caller and who knows I think they have the potential to do really well this season, it all depends on who their replacement is.
CLG and Liquid I think are always going to have their respective curses. CLG will do well until they get a major upset and then go on tilt and throw their wins away. Not to mention every split someone from CLG gets replaced. Liquid will be forever fourth. Until they can get their poop in a group then they won't ever make it to worlds.
Ricketts1 votesWhat I'm trying to say just isnt coming out right...trying to simplify thoughts to make it clear.
Just bringing in new talent isn't a guaranteed way for any NA team to break out and be a top commodity. Adding talent did nothing for TSM at worlds this year. Why? Strategy, teamwork, and coaching as just as big if not bigger than player skills. It's easy to point at the stars on SKT or SSW and say the talent is what won, but if you watch and see the teamwork you can see THAT is what makes the stars shine, the team using different comps and tactics to stay strong and not be 1-dimensional. On a certai level, skill will change things, but skill alone won't do it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is until NA is keeping up with strategy and not catching up in strategy to the rest of the Worlds teams, why worry about a weak link in talent?
YCitizenSnipsY1 votesI Just think its funny that they left Link in the mid lane throughout all those splits of disappointment, but Pobelter gets the team farther than they have ever been and he gets cut in one split. Boy I hope this Huhi dude turns out to be the truth or its going to be just like old times for CLG.
Lugg1 votesAll of NA is in the dumpster right now. If Renegades pick up Forg1ven, they will probably be the favorite to win it all this year. That's pretty sad.
