Due to circumstances outside of their control TDK was dealt a unfair chance this split. Yet when the team was finally able to compete together they gave us hands down the most exciting games (And wins) of the entire split. If you agree there is a place in NA for a team with such passion and excellent play then share your thoughts!
Tentacle Love6 votesI suppose if you want to show your support, you can always buy the summoner icon.
TurquoiseYoshi3 votesI just hope they stay together in CS, and don't split up due to this season. Between Wickd's Hurricane Gnar and TDK, I'm gonna need to watch more Challenger Series next season.
T RexHasTinyArms3 votesIt wouldn't be fair to the challenger teams to change it this late. However, I do think it brings up a serious point about the issues w/ visas. This is a pretty common problem for teams and I don't really get it. I'm not really sure how visas work (looked at emigrating from the U.S. a couple times so I know the requirements some other places), but I had thought that in the U.S. you could get a work visa if a company sponsored you. Clearly this isn't right if teams keep having so much trouble (otherwise they'd just sponsor players as their employees and get the visas). If anyone can explain that'd be great and it definitely brings up the issue of riot needing to be more involved in helping teams get their players here and dealing with visa issues.
CrazedPorcupine2 votesThe thing is, it shouldn't be too hard for the players to get athelte visas since the US passed a law that made it so that professional E-sports players are considered athletes for the purposes of obtaining visas.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesThat's cool. I had no idea that was a thing. When was that passed, I'd love to read it and see what it said? (Although I suppose it would be less interesting than legal rulings because there isn't any justification of position.)
CrazedPorcupine1 votesT RexHasTinyArms1 votesHuh, that's a long time back. I'm curious, the wording in the article says "for events" and I haven't really seen anyone miss a tournament for visa issues, but regular teams have had issues getting players there for the regular season (and not just tdk), so I wonder if the law forbes discusses doesn't apply to the visas needed for playing as a team within the US rather than traveling to the US for a tournament?
Great Pyrenees2 votesWhen it comes to politics and Visas there is a TON of red tape. I had a friend stranded in China for a month ... during a VISIT. Not even trying to work. You can imagine what 'atheletes' must endure.
CrazedPorcupine1 votesI think because it is technically a "job" visa, since the person is planning on staying long term to "work" for the e-sports team as a player.
LaceUp231 votesJust a quick note here, you used a ( but never closed it off. You then started another (. :)
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesThanks, fixed it.
Toa of Death2 votesDefinitely, they've shown that they can take down the top teams. I hope to see them return with their full comp so they can give us a real season.
Great Pyrenees2 votesThe thing that really upset me is how the announcers are all "Well they did good when their team arrived, goodbye". Seriously? They had no control and now they loose their lively hoods. I am a huge TSM fan but TDK played with 1000% more entertainment and excitement in these two weeks than TSM all split.
Reynard the ƒox3 votesEntertainment and excitement aren't grounds for keeping a team in a competitive league.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesNeither is tsm's recent performance in their games. OOOOOHHHH.
jk jk. Seriously though, I hope they wake up for playoffs and do something better than they have been (and hopefully without a roster swap bc that seems to be their solution to everything and it's just not).
Reynard the ƒox1 votes[{quoted}](name=T RexHasTinyArms,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=cME94JTo,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-27T18:44:12.237+0000)
Neither is tsm's recent performance in their games. OOOOOHHHH.
That's my point exactly. They won't be going to playoffs, they got tenth place. The tenth place team is automatically relegated to the Challenger League and replaced by the number one team from there.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesUh except that you comment about what he said regarding tdk rather than tsm. I'm saying tsm has been playing so weak they don't deserve to be in the LCS this way, and that I hope they can change it up w/out major team swaps. They just seem to need more chemistry and not have it right now. You can't be agreeing w/ me and have said what you did in response to the first poster. It makes no sense.
steampig2 votesDid they win again?
Great Pyrenees2 votesYes they did with a UNBUFFED elise in the jungle. It was an amazing game.
Reynard the ƒox2 votesIt was actually a really poorly played game.
Great Pyrenees2 votesCompared to the crap storm I as a huge TSM fan have suffered this split. This game was amazing in comparison.
PoisonedTea2 votesNo they still lost most of the games with the new roster
ponkzy2 votesthey should stay and team8 should be relegated. team8 and nme are both boring as fk to watch
Great Pyrenees1 votesagreed
DeathToHeretics1 votesNME looked good at the beginning, especially when Otter got 
. It was interesting to see a team where one person just ended up carrying each game, and no one really knew who it would end up being. NME had a lot of potential, even the casters of the CS said they expected NME to be a middle of the pack team. Sucks that it all fell apart though.
PoisonedTea1 votesNME looked good at the beginning, especially when Otter got
NME is fine their was a lot of talent this year in NA LCS.
NA is still a mess compare to other regions right now they did grow a little bit. NA looked strong at the start of the year. After MSI they started to look like shit.
Great Pyrenees2 votesA lot of talent ... 4 teams could be replaced and there would be much more talent. And I am not talking about TDK. TSM is going to do a C9 next split after they lose Dyrus. Then no one will be able to blame top lane when the team gets relegated.
Lstrike2 votesI think Riot can make an exception for TDK. They cannot allow TDK to play in the next season by default. But instead of auto-relegating them, they can let them play a Bo5 series with the team that they are supposed to be replaced with. Given the circumstances, I think that's a fair deal for both teams.
T RexHasTinyArms4 votesHow is that a fair deal for the challenger team that was told "win all your games and you will automatically be given salaries and a place in the professional circuit next split"? You're taking a team that played all season, invested money, training time, and whatever else they gave up to be good enough to outright win the challenger series, and then changing what the reward is for winning the tournament. Essentially what you're saying is a fair deal is if the second place prize money for worlds last year (significantly more money than third place) had suddenly required the team to play SSB because "clearly they're a good team, they just got dealt bad cards by having to play SSW in the semis." I would have loved to see SSW and SSB for the finals, but it's not fair to take the other team's prize money away just because the bracket didn't line up that way.
Additionally it would be particularly unfair because the only reason that you would argue TDK should have a shot at not being auto relegated is that you believe their current roster with some more practice (like they have had) is better than the other teams up for relegation and would have won more and not been auto relegated if they had the opportunity to play with that team from the start. The problem there is that it is even more unfair to the CS winner and goes against the concept of why they have the CS. You're saying the team that is supposed to be auto promoted because they are the best team should instead not get that promotion and guaranteed pay out for winning the tournament, and should instead have to play a team that is significantly better than last place in the LCS. If riot did this, there would be an active incentive to NOT win first place in the CS, and watching teams try to win second and third while throwing the games for first place sounds terrible.
Minrog1 votesI agree that TDK doesn't deserve special treatment, and that whoever wins Challenger Series this split deserves the spot.
I believe, though, that it is fundamentally broken that the Challenger Series let's you take a spot in the LCS by crushing a bunch of Bronzelord Challenger teams. You should have to play real teams for your spot, not just get it as a freebie.
Ale non è male1 votesChallanger teams do not have the same organization than LCS teams though, it would be unfair to penalize a team which could be more talented but has lessere infrstructures, money and playing time to train like what has happened in the first amount of Promotion series, both in EU and NA, where the only teams that got promoted were teams that previously featured LCS players/pro experience or teams previosuly relegated, with the notable exceptions of LMQ coming straight from China and UoL in Eu coming out of nowhere (and UoL had to try two times avoiding to disband after their first loss, a thing few teams are capable to do) Giants story surprised everyone because they had no pro experience (But they got the chance through expansion tournament, not regular promos)
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesYou forgot original C9 promotion I think. Might be wrong but I don't think any of them had any pro experience when they qualified (I think they qualified as quantic then got picked up by C9 if I remember right).
Ale non è male1 votes[{quoted}](name=T RexHasTinyArms,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=cME94JTo,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T19:03:55.357+0000)
You forgot original C9 promotion I think.
Nope, the C9 roster won their spot in Promotion Tournament, were acquired by Quantum Gaming and qualified under Quantic name in the promotion tournament, after which Quantic disbanded and the players returned in C9 organization Also, Hai and LemonNation were playing for Orbit that played in 2012 MLG Circiut (both splits), so they had a lot of pro experience when they won their promotion series; Sneaky played for a short period for Dignitas before joining the rest of the roster 8in the period when they were under Quantic game); Balls played with Aprhomoo and Xmithie in Season 2 North American Regionals (LCS ancestor); and Meteos was a Sub for compLexity which was a LCS team at the time
They were all BUT unexperienced in pro Lol gaming
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesWow, I didn't know they had that much pro experience coming into the LCS. It makes their dominance first split they were in more understandable and less of an awesome underdog story which kind of sucks, but it makes more sense and they're still an interesting team in terms of history.
Ale non è male1 votesI don't think C9 underdog story is any diminished by their previous pro experience It is ALWAYS hard for newcomers to adjust to what was an higher level of team competition in any sport. You can have basketball players who are phenomenal in Euroleague or in South America and straight up sucks in NBA even having all the proper experience and skills because they can't adjust their game or they can't keep consistency or because they are one pony trick that are immeditaely figured out at higher level/that trick doesn't work anymore vs better players Finishing 1st in their first LCS split ever as a team remains one of the biggest pages in LOL history and one of the betetr stories overall
I just wanted to put in the proper context the fact that is almost impossible for teams with no LCS experience, either as a team or in some form as player/coach, to be able to beat a LCS team in a sistem like the actual one from Promotions, and why the fact that the first team in CS is automatically qualified can help CS series as it allows for a serious turonver in LCS series and also improve the level of the other Challanger teams because it forces you to face stronger and more experienced competition if you want to advance in Challanger ranks, making you more ready for the moment where you will have to face LCS teams for promotions
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesI get what you're saying, but I think it's overly simplifying things. The auto promote is important to developing the CS scene so they aren't such weak teams in general. If you don't have auto promote, LCS caliber teams can simply refuse to scrim with CS teams and thus protect their profit margins and salaries. Without the ability to scrim against LCS caliber teams, CS teams will have a significantly more difficult time reaching that same level, and so LCS teams become almost guaranteed to stay in the LCS teams because they will have an advantage.
Part of what made teams like SSW and SSB so damn strong was being able to constantly scrim against an amazingly strong sister team. When the people you play against for in house scrims are stronger than 80% of the teams out there, tournaments become fairly easy competition when you are playing teams that are weaker than what you are used to trying to beat. Even if auto promote brings up a team that struggles each split, the teams are getting professional experience and competition that they cannot get from playing in less competitive environments (even if the only difference was that CS is played online and LCS is live, that's a huge difference, and relegation matches are played live), and if the promoted team is relegated they then take that experience back to the CS circuit and make all the other CS teams get better. At least that's the theory and how it should work in an ideal world. Currently many teams that drop appear to be just disbanding and their star players are getting picked up by other teams, so it may not pan out that way, but it's worth giving it a split or two trial period.
Minrog1 votesResponding to this one, but I see what you guys are talking about.
The thing is that teams like Coast/Renegades/Origen are kind of unusual and don't reflect the average level of the CS. What happened to Winterfox seems to be the more common result, and then teams like Fusion and Final Five and Lowland Lions.
I think the true Challenger teams (that aren't superstars just farming wins to get an LCS spot) need something more. Like TDK just got bumped instantly and Giants only barely made it out of Spring Split and that was a tie breaker against MYM. More than 1 split worth of lock in or something.
The thing that bothers me is that one bad split can knock out anybody and it's only a few months of time. So a team like CLG or Cloud 9 can be auto-relegated even if it's something out of their control; think of Hai not making through the surgery on his collapsed lung or Doublelift getting a pinky infection that goes septic. It's an outside thing, but it doesn't make sense to me to have a league that is so unstable.
My personal opinion on it is that the promotion tournament should include the top 3 Challenger teams and the bottom 3 LCS teams. I didn't like the BCS either, fwiw, I feel like if you want the victory you should have to take on all (relevant) competition.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesI may be wrong and just misunderstanding, but you seem to be contradicting yourself in some ways here. On the one hand you're saying that dropping after one split is too simple for CS teams and they don't get enough experience bc they end up being the bottom of the talent pool when they jump up from CS to LCS, but on the other hand if all teams had to play in then aspiring teams that are growing organizations (not Origen or something where they're a shoe in and going to be middle of the pack or better) would have a higher burden to enter the league and likely would never get the chance to even have that one split worth of experience.
SinatraZ2 votesNah I don't like them. Also, they have way too many asians in their team.
JimmyNtheKudos2 votesIt sucks. but the Challenger Series guarantees a spot in the LCS for whoever wins. TDK had their shot, they will come back for season 6 if they are truly LCS worthy.
kombu1 votesWhat were the circumstances, if you don't mind me asking?
Great Pyrenees2 votesThere are only 9 weeks in the season. The US did not approve the starters Visa's until Week 7. So the real TDK team did not get to play until there were only 6ish games left.
kombu2 votesAh I see. I'm not too clear on how the lcs works, but I assume that if TDK stay, another team would either be denied the opportunity of entering the LCS or a team would be kicked out while they weren't in the relegation zone. Neither of those options seem fair.
While TDK kinda got snaked in this situation, there isn't really a fair resolution. to deny a different team the chances of entering the lcs due to an uncontrollable variable would be just as, if not more, unfair than a team getting kicked out for the same reason.
If TDK belong in the LCS then I'm sure that they will return in due time.
Until then, maybe C9 can pull up their socks and be a contending team again ;)
Minrog1 votesThey got into the LCS using Alex Ich/RF Legendary/Maria as "subs". TDK went for almost 4 months without an actual roster. The management of TDK is to blame for this situation, and without the three "subs" that they used there is no way they would have made it into the LCS to begin with.
Uliadyen4202 votesSo for the North American league, they brought in non-North American residents? Isn't that like bringing some Jamaicans up to join the Canadian bobsledding team?
Great Pyrenees1 votesIf you want to bring racism into it. Yes I agree only Americans in merica. But since I do not make the rules. I would just like to see a entertaining team play. Unlike the other bottom 4 teams.
Dracid1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Pyrenees,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=cME94JTo,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-07-26T23:05:23.816+0000)
There are only 9 weeks in the season. The US did not approve the starters Visa's until Week 7. So the real TDK team did not get to play until there were only 6ish games left.
they had the full roster literally halfway through starting at week 9. still sucks either way though
prozak821 votesor you could just get PEOPLE FROM NORTH AMERICA to play in our NORTH AMERICAN LCS. wouldn't that be somethin?
Abyssphere1 votesor you could just get PEOPLE FROM NORTH AMERICA to play in our NORTH AMERICAN LCS. wouldn't that be somethin?
Well if you want to be even less of a factor in international play and give Europe back some of their best players, sure.