Hai is the best player NA has ever produced. He may not have the strongest mechanics but when comes right down to controlling the game on an international stage no NA player has ever delivered as hard as he does. When he finally does actually retire I am glad to know that the scene will be better if it is smart enough to follow in his footsteps. Thoughts?
Treeofwar2 votesyou say best player but straight up bjergsen is way better than hai just because someone is a good shot caller does not mean your the best player in NA. He came back because cloud 9 became clown 9 and they started winning again but was it because hai has god like skill and can out play anyone no not even close it was because cloud 9's moral was so far in the dumps their plays were just bad but when hai came back in they became a team again.
Slappybiscuit1 votesPretty sure he said best player NA ever produced. EU produced Bjergsen.
Stay salty
Treeofwar1 votesPretty sure he said best player NA ever produced. EU produced Bjergsen.
Stay salty
umm then most of NA is either korean or from EU if they are in NA right now they count in this topic.
Slappybiscuit1 votesBut that wasn't the point the op wanted to make. If the op said who is the best player in NA, then yes. But he is wanting to discuss the best player NA produced as in came from NA, so umm they don't count on the topic. And no, most players in NA are from NA, Even if you take the top teams its still only around 50% and that isn't because of just korea or eu, but south america, and china.
Why don't you make a post inquiring about the best player currently playing in NA and not hijacking a different post.
JavelinJoe1 votesWhat sport on any international stage is made so that it forces all teams to be made up of only members who were born in that nation? Even soccer teams trade players from other countries. It is not about nationality, it is about talent.
Slappybiscuit1 votesSo if the OP wanted to know who was the best NA born player (pretty much what he asked), we can never talk about that because we have to talk about all the imports too? We get Bjergsen is a monster, obviously Faker is considered to be the best in the world. Who is the best player who originated from NA?
You're right members swap all around the world, and that point is irrelevant to the OP's question.
Laughing Fish1 votesPlus, it was Balls who got the Penta-dunk, not Hai.
Laughing Fish2 votesHai is very smart, that much cannot be denied. He is the best* shot caller*, but he is not the best player. Bjergsen is the king of NA.
Slappybiscuit1 votesBjergsen is from EU, plays in NA. Reading comprehension is tuff
C9 Scott Free 4 votesIf Bjergsen knew how to control a game like Hai does TSM wouldn't be 1-2 at Worlds right now and wouldn't have gotten swept at playoffs. There is more to being a player than "OMG sick plays."
Slappybiscuit2 votesYou mean Bjergsen's decision making of unloading his entire burst onto alistar doesn't automatically make him the best?
xJLx MCHammer1 votesIf Bjergsen knew how to control a game like Hai does TSM wouldn't be 1-2 at Worlds right now and wouldn't have gotten swept at playoffs. There is more to being a player than "OMG sick plays."
And you can't same it's all Hai. You have to attribute credit to the team. Some of the plays that Hai did was horrible but it worked because the teammates were able to do things that no one foresaw
JavelinJoe2 votesTo be fair to both players, Hai has shown amazing talent for shot calling, probably if not the best in NA, and Bjergsen has proven he is more known for his plays in mid. Not many can say they can reliably get solo kills as a mid laner in the mid lane. But you have to look at it like this. Although both are shot callers for their respective teams, each are positioned in different roles. Jungler role is not as mentally challenging as the mid lane role. Simply for the fact that Mid has each other role to focus on as much as their own because they are the in the center of the map and nearly always revealed from fog of war. Junglers, can be hidden in fog of war (and many try to keep it that way). They also only have a few specific main tasks to do (watch for enemy jungler, neutral spawn timers, who can i gank or set up for a gank/push, and basic jungle vision control are most of their tasks). So i Give credit to both players in their respective areas. If Bjergsen was a jungler, he might shot call better than he can currently, and if Hai was the mid laner, he might not be as good. I don't know for sure.
If we are judging on overall talent, I would give it to Bjergsen over hai, for his overall performance as TSM's mid/Shot caller. The 2 roles that need near flawless observations of the enemy as a whole. However, Hai would win hands down if he was on a much more personal attention requiring role.
To sum it up, Bjergsen is the better player out of the two, but Hai is the better shot caller hands down.
C9 Scott Free 1 votesYour in game decisions are part of what defines you as a player. Bjergsen is way worse at decision making than Hai. If his lanes dont win they crumble pretty much. Hai pre injuries went even with Bjergsen lane wise and then destroyed him on shot calling. It took Hai's lung collapsing and him gaining carpal tunnel for Bjergsen and friends to take the first place seat in NA. So when you factor in what it took for Bjergsen to even get to be number one its a problem. Also, Bjergsen isn't even important to TSM. If you go back to Season 4 Spring there was a point where they had some visa issues. When this happened Regi stepped in and TSM went 5-1 with the only game they dropped being to C9. Look at what happened to C9 when Hai was gone. The reality is that he is far more integral than Bjergsen to his team's success. Bjergesen just has flashy play. Also, keep in mind I said best player ever produced by NA. Bjergsen is a Dane anyway.
Laughing Fish1 votesOne player does not make a team. C9 is currently doing better than TSM. Hai is not better than Bjergsen.
Treeofwar1 votes[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=QaRiKb3u,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2015-10-07T18:31:54.386+0000)
One player does not make a team. C9 is currently doing better than TSM. Hai is not better than Bjergsen.
they are in a different pool we dont know how c9 would fair vs the other teams
TheSequelsRBad2 votes100% agree.
Hai has done more than any other player for the North American E-sports scene.
I actually made a thread about this a couple of days ago however.
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesMechanically, no way. Maybe in shot-calling, but he really isn't that great in play.
DestructoDave2 votesHai actually has pretty good mechanics. He is showing that playing jungle now. Back when Bjergsen first came to NA, he said Hai was his toughest opponent. This was when Hai was good, pre-problems. Hai always had good mechanics, he just had a really small champion pool. He Westdoor'd it. But after his injury and downtime, his mechanics went down, AND his champion pool compounded it. And, he was having to play mid, one of the harder lanes to dominate, AND make the calls from there. Of course he went downhill.
But as we can see with him jungling, his mechanics are actually really good on the mechanical junglers. Hell, he looks great on Elise and Lee sin. Shows just how much mechanical ability other roles have to have to be relevant. He swaps from retired mid to jungle, looks better on Lee Sin than any other NA jungler (Rush doesnt count; I mean real NA).
Honestly, it shows that you really need your shot-callers to be in the jungle and support roles. Because, the other positions really need to focus on outplaying their opponents in lane. Just look how strong c9 looks now with a mid who never loses lane, and all other lanes focused on their game, and Hai in a place where he will never feel out of it. Thats one thing about being a jungler; no matter how bad its going, you arent going to be 0/7 in lane down 60cs not being able to do anything and have that mental strain on you. I think Hai's shot-calling is better than ever right now. It also helps, when you have 2 lanes always winning, in Incarnation and Sneaky.
I also think Hai is one of hte best players ever. I'm glad he came back and is finally getting the credit he deserved.
C9 Scott Free 1 votesGlad to see people who understand there is more to the game than kills on the pro level.
xJLx MCHammer1 votesBest player is very hard to define. The reason why he quit mid lane is because he was constantly losing mid lane to other players. His champion pools was very bad too; he was resorting to Zed because that was the only champion he can actually use with good results. Lets not forget in the peak of C9 domination, he was using those strong champions like Soraka mid.
So while you can claim his shot calling is the best in NA, you also have to take into account the other players. They said it themselves, they trust each other a lot; this was constantly the motto that they said back in S4, they didn't have a roster change for so long that they build a relationship and trust with each other. So I'd argue that yes, Hai is probably the best shot caller, but that's also his team that's doing a lot of work. His shot calling isn't that absurdly better than others. I'd also argue that Bjerg and other shot callers are nearly just as good and better mechanical players
XlawlietteX1 votesNo one is a better mid than Faker. No one is a better shot caller than YellowStar.
Boom.
-drops mic and leaves-
C9 Scott Free 1 votesHai beat yellowstar in shot calling on Sunday. The Faker thing I agree with. At the end of the day though this is about how Hai is the best player born and raised in NA that we have ever had.