To everyone saying TSM is trash

Borkahn·Sep 30, 2016·20 votes·3,134 views

I highly doubt you understand the team composition that came into play here. This is game 1 and if any team has shown that it can adapt to what teams throw at them, it's TSM. They will make it out of groups. Most of you saying they are trash are usually bandwagoners who jump the moment a team loses one game. I got the faith. TSM will advance. RNG just had some patience and didn't bite. RNG played solely around Alistar's flash. If you watched the game you would know. They never engaged unless Alistar's flash was up because they looked or the flash knockup. Godo game to RNG but you best have a different game plan when TSM next sees you because trust me, you don't want to be you. TSM all the way. Look to the next game boys.

Stand strong TSM fans. And remember to be humble when we leave the group stage and head to the bracket. Because some people kinda hate it when they get the tar kicked out of them all summer split. TSM TSM TSM

59 Comments

ToasteySep 30, 201614 votes

there's nothing wrong with playing around your engage tools. picking fights when you don't have the tools up is asking to lose. tsm played around the kennen flash. mata solo dumpstered TSM. stop finding excuses to build up your favourite team

BorkahnSep 30, 20164 votes

It's not excuses, it's facts. Without the Alistar, TSM takes the game. And it is also a fact they will make it out of group. The late game composition was with RNG and they are the best team fight team in the world. They proved it. But we were taking advantages early.

Hell WeekSep 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It's not excuses, it's facts. Without the Alistar, TSM takes the game. And it is also a fact they will make it out of group. The late game composition was with RNG and they are the best team fight team in the world. They proved it. But we were taking advantages early.

without the alistar? i say if they didnt have the hecarim, rumble and cass just maybe they coudlve won. lolololol. they played terrible.

BorkahnSep 30, 20162 votes

Rumble was a non factor except one fight at the dragon. Other than that most of his equalizers never touched a carry. The cass was there purely to combo the cc set up by alistar. And the hecarim could have done a better job with his onslaughts. No the mvp of this game is the alistar hands down. Without him, they don't win this game.

ToasteySep 30, 201613 votes

Okay, if we're removing a single champion from each side, let's remove Sven's Lee Sin. Oh shit! What happened to your early advantages?? Where did they go??? RNG had a better comp by fucking far. They had engage tools, disengage tools, and better AoE and mobility. TSM had no real tools to snowball the lead that Sven got for them early on. Not to mention, they looked like they had better comms; how many times was DL or Bjerg caught out by themselves? This is an all-English-fluent team getting rekt by a mixed team of Chinese and Koreans who rely on shitty broken English for their in-game comms. There's no covering up the shit-tier communications on the TSM side.

And if RNG is the best teamfighting team in the world, how is a team like TSM (who rely on picks and teamfights) going to ever beat them outside of a fluke?

Unless RNG flops and massively throws their next 5 group stage games, SSG and RNG will be the 2 to make it out of Group D. SSG is basically a better version of TSM: more controlled, an actual understanding of the map, a better support, and almost able to match pound for pound the firepower of Bjerg and DL.

BorkahnSep 30, 20162 votes

Sven's lee although getting advantages could easily have done so on any other champion. Sven's lee did not make or break this team. Top and Mid carved and held advantages of their own. Lee was just a cherry on top. Taking out Lee doesn't affect the game to the extreme losing the cow would. And you should easily be able to see that.

ToasteySep 30, 20166 votes

Get fucking real mate, the Lee was a centrepiece of the early game, both in terms of pressure and being able to execute upon potential plays. There's no way that Skarner pre-6 could've done fuck-all to approach got for TSM that game. The biggest advantage TSM got just through laning was Bjerg up 30~ CS over Cassio--which is an Orianna-favoured matchup.

Also, stop referring to TSM as "we". You're not part of TSM and never will be. You're just a fanboy desperately trying to insinuate that Mata wouldn't be effective on other playmaking champions. Look back to the 2014 World Championships. Easily the best Thresh at the tournament. Contender for best Janna. One of the best, if not the best, support in the whole tournament. Ban Ali and he'll pop off on something else.

BorkahnSep 30, 20162 votes

Not in the manner that he would with Alistar. Alistar brought a whole approach. Now we can continue this conversation some other time when you have calmed down to the point where you can use proper words instead of going back to swearing for lack of a vocabulary. Good day and "WE" the fans of TSM and TSM will be advancing to the knockout stage. Have a blessed night.

ToasteySep 30, 20166 votes

If you want to play elitist with sesquipedalian vocabulary, using SAT words in a poor attempt at faulty linguistic analysis and implications of lesser intelligence, then go right ahead. You've likely never done analyst work in any capacity, and your loyalty to TSM blinds you.

Sorry to break it to you, but being King of the Shit Heap still makes you shit (referring to TSM regular season).

VidiotSep 30, 20165 votes

Holy shit you are toxic dude. Just because you googled a bunch of long words and used them to justify your argument doesn't make you intelligent or an analyst yourself. You have your own opinion and that's totally fine, but don't bash the guy for voicing his own. Geez.

ToasteySep 30, 20162 votes

I guess presenting facts and banter in debates are "toxic" now lmao

The only really "long word" in that entire post is "sesquipedalian"...a word that I looked up 6 years ago upon reading it the introductory segments of "The Surgeon of Crowthorne" (also known as its retitle of "The Professor and the Madman", which is the version I read). It's telling that somewhat complex syntax is enough for you to think that I piled on a bunch of long words to desperately sound smarter. I never used linguistic complexity to justify any argument, and I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. I only told him that his loyalty is blinding, and that being top of NA doesn't make a team good. If anything, he's the one who's being less than justified for refusing to debate further based on his aversion to swear words and his incorrect inference that I must've been angry.

I've done analyst work for some smaller teams, all of them disbanded now. You guys have probably never been near spreadsheets in your lives. Proof of hours and hours put in here and here if you're curious. The second one was just a personal spreadsheet to help me track my progress, strengths, and weaknesses as I transitioned from mid/support to ADC.

VidiotSep 30, 20166 votes

Either way, look how you replied to his comment. "Being the King of the shit heap still makes you shit" and you also used vulgar vocabulary in your earlier comments towards the guy when he wasn't vulgar at all. Honestly you could have pulled those links from anything, so sorry if it offends if I don't believe you. And for another point, Being top of NA actually makes you pretty good. I'm pretty positive any of TSM could out macro or out mechanic anybody else in NA. If they was not a good team, they would not have made it to worlds. I know NA may not be the strongest region, but to say they aren't strong at all is a false statement. Also you may or may not used those words to justify your argument, but either way from the beginning reply to the OP you were rude.

My previous comment stands. You don't have to be rude to voice your opinion.

Secret BallerSep 30, 20161 votes

My man Toastey, you have to understand most people these days are pussies, especially nerds. You have to use politically correct words all the time and talk like you're at fickus tea party or they get butthurt and complain about their feelings. It's the golden age of self-entitlement and participation trophies now, you have to behave accordingly or you'll get flamed for it.

VidiotOct 1, 20161 votes

Lulz tbh I don't care if it is your sheets or not man. I was just putting my point across that you dont have to be rude to make your opinion. I understand how you feel with TSM. They were my fav org before I even played league. I don't think they will win worlds, but I do think they have what it takes to make it out of groups. And to baller, I'm not butthurt, just letting him k ow that he was rude and just because you can be a jackals behind a screen doesnt make you "cool". So buzz off if your not going to c9ntribute please. I'm done quarreling like kids over this.

ToasteyOct 9, 20161 votes

AYYY LMAOOOO "RNG ONLY WON BECAUSE MATA CARRIED ON ALISTAR"

MATA ON NAMI, LESS THAN 5 DEATHS AND MORE THAN 70% KILL PARTICIPATION

JUST ACCEPT THAT A WORLD-CLASS SUPPORT AND WORLD-CLASS BOTLANE IS REKKING BIO/DOUBLE

YambrinZSep 30, 20161 votes

I was wondering why TSM would pick an inferior team fighting comp into a team that excels at team fighting.

LitAFSep 30, 20167 votes

Maybe if Dlift never picks Jihn again lmao terrible terrible positioning man

BorkahnSep 30, 20161 votes

Flash, Headbutt, Pulverize would put Doublelift way out of range to auto anyone. All he could do would be to ult. And doing that opens him up to Hecarim's charge into Onslaught.

Sans HamaSep 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if Dlift never picks Jihn again lmao terrible terrible positioning man

Nah uzi just the OG god

Hell WeekSep 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Nah uzi just the OG god

how he shielded lees Q then they proceeded to get wrecked by ali followed by rumble and hec. insane teamwork, much more superior than TSM sadly. Sucks i really wanted them to do good.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 30, 20167 votes

Only when TSM loses is it "just one game" lol.

MazariamontiSep 30, 20165 votes

TSM really fucked up their second draft is about all I took away from that game.

LongSh4dowsSep 30, 20161 votes

Every time there is a remake it seems someone comes back with a crappy draft.

MazariamontiSep 30, 20161 votes

I think teams outthink themselves sometimes when asked to do it over again

TeslynSep 30, 20162 votes

what you dont understand is doublelift on the world stage

BorkahnSep 30, 20163 votes

I believe if he plays to his lucian pick or maybe even Sivir we would have different results. He is fantastic with those champions

TeslynSep 30, 20162 votes

watched him for years. here is what i know: he wants to be the center of attention he wants to be the carry he has good mechanics

also, when he is not the carry he starts doing risky things when he should sit back and enjoy the carry he flames his support he is a greedy player at the core base of who he is

TSM just needed him not to die. So he tries to make plays and dies.
When he is ahead he can play from ahead and end games effectively. keep him even or behind and he will do stupid things.

i dont care what kind of TSM fanboy you are, just know this: TSM is a sold team and they picked up a weakness that should have been phased out of the LCS this year. Atleast i can root for CLG now. Tell them thank you for me by beating C9 at the end of summer so i didnt have to sweet the gauntlet.

BorkahnSep 30, 20161 votes

Ya no. He hasn't really flamed at all when coming to this team. He supported Biofrost through and through. And I think they will come back with a chip on their shoulders. I also believe that Jhin is going up and his better picks like Sivir and Lucian will start showing. They will start dominating bottom lanes like they were expected to. Biofrost is an excellent player and RNG went straight for him. He struggled a bit. But you don't want to do him in that much because he will study the match. Learn his failures and come back way better than he was before. and btw. It's not a crime to be a TSM fanboy especially since I've supported the team from day 1 for me. It's a crime to be a fanboy if all you do is jump to teams that win every year when your team is losing. I stayed with them in the Spring split and that was hard to do. But you know what, noone can call me a homer when they win. 2 main points to take from this game. Doublelift needs to stay on his comfort picks, and the cow needs to be banned away from RNG at all times.

TeslynSep 30, 20162 votes

i am now saving this post and will revisit at the end of next week. if TSM makes it out of groups i will be surprised.

BorkahnSep 30, 20162 votes

I won't be. I got faith in them. As much faith as all people that are hating on them saying they won't make it out.

DranorSep 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I won't be. I got faith in them. As much faith as all people that are hating on them saying they won't make it out.

Like everyone predicted, 5-1 TSM. That's the case as it is. Plus after today, and their next match they get a break to see the champs and team comps that work. Of course they adapt, they're the best team in NA and just because they lose one game doesn't mean everyone has to jump to RNG and buy their icon just for that fact. I've stuck with TSM for 5 years now and I always will. This team is bringing something special to the worlds stadium this year. Period.

TheKindSep 30, 20162 votes

I think TSM is the one who needs a new gameplan. Other than Sven's early game, the team looked awful. I have to admit, it was great seeing Doublelift get owned after slamming every other NA team.

BorkahnSep 30, 20161 votes

Think that's because he went out of his norm to play Jhin, personally I wouldn't have wanted him on that champion. Had he went ezreal or lucian I believe he could have done more in lane. And TSM always adjust the gameplan. They have this whole summer split. Moving sven from tank to carry to tank dps jungler again. Hauntzer isn't left by himself as much as Dyrus was. This is a good TSM team. They just lost ot the best teamfighting team in the world.

YambrinZSep 30, 20161 votes

Meh. TSM tried to cheeseball steal the Lee Sin after Bjerg QQ about those orbs again. Those Bjerg shockwaves were too stronk that game. Did he even hit one besides the last kill on AListar as his nexus died? TSM got rekt as usual at worlds. Maybe YOU should see more reality rather than bandwagoning.

BorkahnSep 30, 20162 votes

Can't really bandwagon when I've been with the team ever since I've heard what League of Legends was. And maybe you didn't watch the game. He hit tons of them. But again, Alistar was the mvp of the match. Without his flash into headbutt and pulverize, this game goes the other way

RequiemsfireSep 30, 20161 votes

I think was really the composition that was TSM's weak point in that they had nothing to really deal with the Alistar and this resulted in an explosion engage from both the rumble and the Hecarim pretty much deleting anyone.

I think both teams played pretty damn well but when it came down to team fights TSM couldn't stand up.

BorkahnSep 30, 20162 votes

Pretty much what I've been trying to say in addition to Alistar. They got outscaled. But the Alistar set up every single team fight. The hecarim wouldn't start teamfights. And Rumble missed a good number of ults. Same as Orianna. I think TSM will reevaluate their team comp a little bit versus China and Korea. Granted they've always shown to have the best teamfights XP

LuggSep 30, 20161 votes

The problem is that TSM has a philosophy of building their teams to solely win NA. This has always been their problem and why they never do good at Worlds.

LankPantsOct 1, 20161 votes

You're joking right? Last split's TSM had 3 players from Europe. The team legit had as many Danes as it did North American players. Even now there's still two European players on TSM and they're pretty much the only two players who didn't look like garbage in the last game.

LuggOct 1, 20161 votes

Not joking at all. It doesn't matter where you get your players from if your philosophy is bad. I thought this might be the year since they got a new coach, but it's just been more of the same. The only international success they have had was IEM and they only won that because it was a weak field and SKT basically had a new team that was getting used to each other.

LankPantsOct 1, 20161 votes

Oh, I thought you said solely from NA, you're right and I'm dumb.

LuggOct 1, 20161 votes

No prob, I've done the same thing.

RickettsSep 30, 20161 votes

The way I see it, there was a lot more to the game than JUST Mata on Ali. Uzi was able to win bot lane 1v2 against Egolift and Biofrost, which gave Mata the freedom to roam in the first place. Bjerg (most overrated mid ever) was able to pick a lane counter against Xiahou and did nothing with it. He was virtually a non factor except in clearing minion waves. Sven's Lee play was good, but totally failed to help his bot lane overwhelm a solo add, give his star mid a kill, punish Mata for roaming.....basically he got a lead and pissed it away. Meanwhile RNG played as a group and all ended with solid stats. We'll see soon if TSM and NA should be relegated to one guaranteed Worlds slot and have to fight for wildcards next year.

LankPantsOct 1, 20161 votes

I've always said that TSM is overrated. They were hyped to hell and back by the western casters, but they're still a western team and the west hasn't been on par with Korea since S2 and is rarely on par with China, last season Europe wasn't bad but they were clearly still worse than Korea. NA has never been competitive internationally.

I saw everyone shoeing in TSM for first simply based off of their results in NA, no other basis at all. I didn't and still can't understand why, sure TSM were the kings, they were the kings of the plebs. Coming second in China or third in Korea is at least as impressive as coming first in NA, I'd argue more so.

RickettsOct 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've always said that TSM is overrated. They were hyped to hell and back by the western casters, but they're still a western team and the west hasn't been on par with Korea since S2 and is rarely on par with China, last season Europe wasn't bad but they were clearly still worse than Korea. NA has never been competitive internationally.

I saw everyone shoeing in TSM for first simply based off of their results in NA, no other basis at all. I didn't and still can't understand why, sure TSM were the kings, they were the kings of the plebs. Coming second in China or third in Korea is at least as impressive as coming first in NA, I'd argue more so.

The sad truth is for any NA team to advance past group stage will be an accomplishment. Looks like Brazil is evolving more than NA teams.

Darius StradaOct 1, 20161 votes

TSM fanboy detected.

2Lucians1TrapSep 30, 20171 votes

ayy EU still trash but so is TSM

TheLustyEgirlOct 30, 20161 votes

I'm from the future, SKT wins again, and TSM doesn't even make it to groups, get rekt OP

[slayer-jinx-catface]

ƒiørânéOct 17, 20171 votes

oh shit what happened to that

BigBellBruteOct 18, 20171 votes

OOOOOOO A zombie thread. 8 out of 10 zombies think TSM brains would be tasty.
2 out of 10 zombies declined to eat the coach saying his brain is little more than a snack.
The 11th zombie started drooling when we asked the question so we high tailed it out of there and ended the survey.