Skip to content

Monthly Reminder!

ChompyWulf··2 votes·960 views

Riot has cut out one of the best young organizations in Esports in favor of NBA backed checks.

Immortals were wronged. Never forget them.

Riot is continuing to expose themselves as greedy asshats.

NALCS can burn.

31 Comments

Aeszarck6 votes

NALCS isn't going to burn. It just got a ton of support from huge, well-established organizations.

Riot made a smart move because now it has a ton of huge investors that will allow it to make the scene even more competitive and better.

ChompyWulf1 votes

Going to Best of 1 and letting in a trash org like 100 Thieves are not signs of improving NA.

Aeszarck5 votes

{quoted}

Going to Best of 1 and letting in a trash org like 100 Thieves are not signs of improving NA.

Let some actual matches happen before concluding that NALCS is ruined. *edited for grammar

ChompyWulf1 votes

They've cut one of the best teams to start grassroots in their own game, who jumped up to compete with some of the top teams who have been in the LoL Esports scene for several years and have been established. Then they let in an Esports team that went bust within their genre of FPS in their inaugural year, and haven't had any team or roster for the past year.

How is the competitive integrity at all intact? It's another clear case of Riot choosing money first. Calling it now, TSM, C9 and CLG are top three teams next year, both splits, and rep at Worlds, TSM flopping in groups, CLG barely escape play in to drop in groups, C9 win tiebreaker to make quarterfinals and get blown out 3-1.

HexaDecimel1 votes

Riot reviewed all the LCS submissions and selected the teams with the strongest and most stable organizations backing them. Its called good business. Ya it sucks that Immortals couldn't put together a better package. I really liked them. But this isn't Riots fault.

ChompyWulf1 votes

Arguably, it is. How many teams have gone through LCS? Half the problem is Riot not doing jack to support the teams playing their game. The only team who released the numbers on the pay they got for team icons? They got a one-time check for $3,800. Other games have offered better prize pools, better sharing of skin or sticker profits, better stipends from sponsors. Getting strong footing and strong sponsorships to stay afloat has been brutally hard on LoL teams. And now Riot wanted 2.5 million for four years for teams to buy in, when last teams to buy in only had to fork over 1 million once. There are ways Riot could have stabilized teams better for a better competition. Instead they have repeatedly chosen greed.

And if they would rather have a bigger NBA backed check to add an organization that has only had a team once for just four months over a year ago, it REALLY shows how twisted their priorities are.

HexaDecimel1 votes

I get that you were a fan and are upset. I was disappointed to. But if we are really talking about priorities then we need to understand that Riot is a business. Their priority is to be profitable. And when put into a position where they received over a hundred applications for 10 LCS spots it makes sense that some of the older teams wouldn't make it in. Would I rather see DIG and IMT, yes! But these are the kind of things that happen when you look at something from a business perspective.

Maszii1 votes

{quoted}

Going to Best of 1 and letting in a trash org like 100 Thieves are not signs of improving NA.

Still have the same worlds results with BO3 as BO1 so might aswell get some extra revenue in. Also if they were so good etc should have gotten the investments, but rip.

ChompyWulf1 votes

If you read up about how Riot runs NALCS, it has been very difficult for teams to keep funded. Reginald had a public feud with Riot over pushing into other Esports. CLG nearly folded but got a big backer to stay alive. DIG died and then was bought out and the brand revived. C9 famously was struggling for a couple years to stay afloat.

IMT has plenty of investor power, but because of Riot policies restricting teams ability to push endorsements of sponsors, teams have struggled to make much in teams of sponsor $, and IMT only has a couple sponsors compared to other more established teams having more, also in part to having other teams in other Esports. Imt started to push into CS:GO, and perhaps more fatally into DOTA 2 and OWL, which I guarantee Riot sees as threats to their viewership.

I also fail to see how Bo1 means more revenue.

warpenguin5555 votes

IMT was in debt. Riot didn't want to take a chance on them going bankrupt mid year and cut them. Smart, unlike your decision to make this thread

ChompyWulf1 votes

So they let in 100 Thieves, who flopped in the FPS field in 2016 and had no Esports team whatsoever all of 2017, is better? Oh, right, they are backed by the Cavs owner, so they have a big paycheck to field a bad team....sounds like another Cleveland sports franchise.

IMT began expanding to games where companies actually work harder to help the Esports teams make money, which would have helped them fund their LoL franchise. Too bad buying into DOTA 2 and building up to compete in LA for live viewing rustled Riots jimmies and they got mad about it.

Bettnachleger1 votes

Who plays in 100 thieves?

HexaDecimel1 votes

Ssumday, Meteos, Ryu, ?, Aphromoo

Bettnachleger1 votes

Uh cool. thx. I like this team ;D

ChompyWulf1 votes

Maybe this time Nadeshot can keep a team around for more than four months? Otherwise expect roster turnover from a CEO more into clothing sales than Esports management.

Maszii3 votes

{quoted}

So they let in 100 Thieves, who flopped in the FPS field in 2016 and had no Esports team whatsoever all of 2017, is better? Oh, right, they are backed by the Cavs owner, so they have a big paycheck to field a bad team....sounds like another Cleveland sports franchise.

IMT began expanding to games where companies actually work harder to help the Esports teams make money, which would have helped them fund their LoL franchise. Too bad buying into DOTA 2 and building up to compete in LA for live viewing rustled Riots jimmies and they got mad about it.

That story is bs, but nice to see it rustled your jimmies. They just spend too much cash and couldnt ensure they have enough money for the LCS. Shame for them but they betted on too many horses. BO1 makes more revenue because it is shorter and people will stay longer to watch games. In the BO3 area people would only watch their team's game because of the amount of time it consumed. They should/could have done a Korean thing with games during the week.

ChompyWulf1 votes

They bet on other horses to actually make money, since until now Rito profit sharing has been abominable and a big reason why many teams struggled. Even before teams were announced, a lot of the actual weekly LCS fans on the boards were expressing distaste of the Bo1 for a variety of reasons. Expect shaky viewer numbers.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

So they let in 100 Thieves, who flopped in the FPS field in 2016 and had no Esports team whatsoever all of 2017, is better? Oh, right, they are backed by the Cavs owner, so they have a big paycheck to field a bad team....sounds like another Cleveland sports franchise.

IMT began expanding to games where companies actually work harder to help the Esports teams make money, which would have helped them fund their LoL franchise.** Too bad buying into DOTA and building up to compete in LA2** for live viewing rustled Riots jimmies and they got mad about it.

It is Overwatch dude, which competition is still unknown on esports field (and tbh really looks like OW isn't going to compete for top spot held by LOL) Riot is several levels above DOTA2 and they wouldn't have cared about IMT entering in its scene (some years ago where the LOL vs DOTA battle was closer they would have had concerns, but not now)

ChompyWulf1 votes

League may get most viewership, but what will drive Esports forward? Views, or money? If Esports really grows and it begins to get attention and growth, prospective players with dreams of being a pro and having a career of it will by far be more attracted to DOTA. The 1st place winner at The International took home a cash prize over 10 million. That is more than Rito paid out to ALL the participants in Worlds. Overwatch bridges some territory of both FPS and MOBA games, and Blizzard can really drive up hype. It may be small now, but don't blink, it could grow fast. And finally, just last year Riot bigwigs got into a public battle with Reginald over TSM expanding to other games and not expending ALL their resources in LoL. So yeah, tell me they don't care if you really think those guys have changed their tune.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

League may get most viewership, but what will drive Esports forward? Views, or money? . Overwatch bridges some territory of both FPS and MOBA games, and Blizzard can really drive up hype. It may be small now, but don't blink, it could grow fast.

By views that organically generayes money And Overwatch viewership dipped shortly after the end of the burst of the hype bubble, partly because of Blizzard decisions to kill everything else for launching OWL, but also because it has a bad viewership experience AND people have lost some interest on it because of the Battle Royale genre success (PUBG, Fortnite)

You ask if viewership or money will push Esports forward... but wasn't money allegedly the reason, according to your posts in this thread, why IMT was cut for orgs like 100 Thieves? Right now OWL is pushed only by money and if the money stream is cut before it takes off, it is going to die. DOTA esports scene is irrelevant and far less attractive for young players than League despite TI improving their prize pool records year by year (thanks to fans that make for the majority of the contributi in, certainly not to Valve increasing their portion of prizepool) because if you are not in a top 4-top 8 team in the World (top 50 players?) you are not going to earn enough from the tournament to profiting from a professional career, and even the other majors have relatively low prize pool while Riot fund a stable salary in NA+ EU only (without counting other regions they have control of) for 140 players + coaches

You don't even know what you are talking about, your entire premise is that you are salty because IMT has not made the cut. It does not matter if I agree or not with Riot decision about IMT, but you are not questioning the process, you are only crying about the result making up assumptions without foundation and arguments that make no sense or are proved wrong by facts (then explain why DOTA esports is becoming more and more nicher despite still keeping the highest yearly prize pool with TI)

GeminiRune4 votes

Here is a question: how well do you really know the Immortals organization? I know you're upset. But honestly, you'll live with it. Hundreds of applications - recent rising reputation by the team wasn't going to absolutely secure anything.

ChompyWulf1 votes

But 100 Thieves is a worthy organization? Go on, explain that one.

GeminiRune3 votes

I'll just avoid the point you're trying to make as you don't even follow on it. But think on this one:

Would Longzhu be as worthy if they were smack dab in the same situation Immortals wound up in?

ChompyWulf1 votes

Irrelevant comparison. Simply put, Esports has been considered a serious thing in Korea so much longer that companies worth more than Riot are sponsoring teams. Compare that to US where these teams are start-ups who suffer under a structure where their sponsorship and profit potential are far more limited. Riot created a system where they gained the most and teams struggled to get by, and now they want a buy-in from teams 10 times more than it cost two years ago. Immortals has begun expanding into other Esports with far more profit for teams, but Riot is worried they've invested to much? The company that makes more in one week than Valve does from DOTA2 in a month but has a smaller prize pool for their world championship expects more money from the teams.

Now tell me...how is 100 Thieves more worthy?

GeminiRune2 votes

Perfectly reasonable comparison. Because what all is there to gripe about Immortals not making the cut? If the org had their investments and plans as sorted out as they could have, then there's potentially not a problem with them. So what their League ops had a steady environment for talent production. But did they genuinely have a long term thing going for them and could you really tell that?

I feel that your grievances are simply because you're upset that a popular TEAM didn't make the cut. You could transfer that entire roster and support staff to another team (say 100 Thieves) and if that were the case would you have a problem then or would you still have a problem because "it's not Immortals?" That's literally the same for if a fan jumps off the SSG boat for selling to KSV while the roster is still the damn same! Not once have you genuinely spoken of how the organization behind the scenes, specifically Noah, is anything of meaningful to you.

And that's why I plug in Longzhu into the equation. Like Immortals, both teams had rosters for success but were known for choking and sucking where it mattered. Then comes this year; both 7th place Spring split teams that didn't have much faith in fans despite their own star players and a rocky synergy (which dates longer for them). Yet come Summer, they get their acts together and people back them massively despite whatever back end stuff was happening or has happened in the past prior to their present success. So with all Kespa legal aspects aside; place Longzhu's success under a NA bubble. Would it be unfair then because they finally got a roster that clicked? Hell! Let's go as ridiculous as MYM or Origen. What if they had a world class roster despite a garbage org. Or even Tainted Minds; let's go borderline crazy here! Any of those teams could put up the money but would they have the genuine long term plan for their players to stay relevant? Unfortunately, that's Riot's direction.

But if I had to answer your final question...

Now tell me...how is 100 Thieves more worthy?

At least compared to Immortals, 100 Thieves doesn't have much going for them besides a League division. Organizations don't need to have 7 different esports divisions to make their point that they would be a stand in for a suitable and comfortable environment for their teams. And whether they suck or not in League, the org can still show a comfortable environment; the players act to their own. I don't know the full extent of the application process but if I had to take a few shots, 100 Thieves may have had a better pitch, a more focused direction, and works for a better environment for their team. They sold their brand better than Immortals. Better than Dignitas. Better than Envy or Phoenix 1.

So face the reality. I can say you don't know much about Immortals at all, especially seeing as you dodged my initial question entirely. You're just bandwagoning by yourself sulking over the team at hand when most people have already accepted and got over it.

ChompyWulf1 votes

OK, you want to hear it? I don't know all the details of Immortals inner workings. I know what everyone else can know. They jumped in, paid out high contracts and a posh gaming house to treat their players like a valued commodity. They engaged with fans and created content to bring fans in. They found success, faltered, and rebuilt to an even better team within two years. They brought some players together that people had written off, and found some damn good young talent to grow a team, instead of chasing a star/stat player who would just be an improvement. They expanded their organization and footprint in Esports, crossing genres and regions. They pushed for franchising because it is badly due for Riot to share profits better, and for players to have a voice about matters. It was the first organization in years to breathe some hope into NA breaking their international meme fail status, and challenged a falsely competitive scene dominated for years by just three teams.

There are plenty of reasons why I admired and cheered for Immortals. Not just the team, not just a player. I am the kind of fan who has been among the millions that has made the NFL and sport teams profitable, because I care about a team with reason, and that won't be easily shaken. Bandwagoners who follow a star or just watch every LCS game without discernment because they like LoL will crumble and fade away because they don't care as much.

And 100 Thieves? They have one thing going for them. A new teat for Riot to suckle as a crappy owner will have to try managing a team for more than a quarter of a year.

HexaDecimel1 votes

100 Thieves is backed by a very profitable NBA Organization. The whole point of franchising was to provide stability and open up investment opportunities. So ya 100 Thieves would be the better choice then a team that didn't have strong financial backing.

ChompyWulf1 votes

Riot is very much to blame for so many teams struggling to secure regular revenue. Also, Immortals has a pretty heavyweight backer in Lionsgate entertainment. And have done well in two years on the management side. 100 Thieves began and basically went into hibernation in one quarter. With management like that, what do you think this money will do but buy a punching bag for the likes of TSM, CLG, and C9?

Ale non è male1 votes

The right way to protest is to watch and support EU LCS to avoid franchising hitting EU and thus having good but small organizations left out of EU LCS

ChompyWulf1 votes

Frankly, no. The way I protest is by eschewing the Rito bullied regions for one which the team backers have as much power, and the first team I followed plays, the LCK and SKT. No watching LCS streams or VoDs, at most seeing highlights from a different viewing source than Riot.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

Frankly, no. The way I protest is by eschewing the Rito bullied regions for one which the team backers have as much power, and the first team I followed plays, the LCK and SKT. No watching LCS streams or VoDs, at most seeing highlights from a different viewing source than Riot.

Then you are just a delusional IMT crying fanboy that deserve to be completely ignored Be honest, you wouldn't have cared about franchising if IMT was going through the process, so you have no right to speaks against franchising now. Then why your opinion should matter more than Dignitas fans for example? Or EnVy? It has been stated that IMT problem wasn't lack of investors, so the "hurr, durr Riot are greedy asshats" is not true, it was stability because of the nature of these investors, being VC companies that can pull off at any moment, and on top of that the org just spent north of 20+ milions (more than double the investment in new LCS) for likely one of the most expensive slots in brand new OWL model that has no guarantees to succeed (and Blizzard track record in managing esports like foto example StarCraft is way worse than Riot)

If you were really going to protest against franchising process, then you should support a non franchised Riot league like EU LCS community that is largely opposing to relegations despite a lot of people that purposedly write it off for silly and false reasons ("hurr durr, EU no personalities, not like NA which has QTPie that can't win a series in Challenger Series) and do not watch It are pushing for franchising.

But you are not that, so I don't see why people should care about your opinion specifically

More from Esports

More by ChompyWulf