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[PBE Stealth Changes] Stealth Abilities, Vision and the new Control Ward

RiotColin··1 votes·35,180 views

Howdy guys, Riot Colin here to share some context on changes to stealth abilities, vision and the new Control Ward.

STEALTH: STEALTH Goals/Problem Statement After finishing up our normal preseason vision analysis, we came up with a handful of high value vision-related projects. We decided to tackle Stealth not only for its relevance to the Assassins, but because of its status as a long standing pain point in our game. We identified two systemic problems with stealth abilities in League:

Unhealthy and Inaccessible Counter-play: A player’s response to stealth abilities on live is Vision Wards (“Pinks”). There are a handful of problems with Vision Wards as a counter: 1. Vision Wards remove all the power from a stealth state since they both reveal you and make you targetable. Plainly put, they are a hard-counter. When you combine this binary counter with immediate activation, stealth abilities’ power and satisfaction are detrimentally eroded by this counter-play. For example: Akali’s Twilight Shroud, an ability that should give Akali a moment of respite, feels unreliable and frankly unsafe. This hard counter also causes a secondary problem for champion balance. Dropping Vision Wards in-combat is a skill that is not well developed in a majority of LoL players, but which is ever-present at high skill levels. This causes stealth champions to be powerful at average skill levels and hamstrung in higher level play.This distortion in Vision Ward usage forces us between a rock and a hard place. If stealth champions can’t rely on their stealth then we have to increase power elsewhere in their kit. This additional power exacerbates the balance for a majority of our players where champions get increased power and effective stealth due to infrequent countering. 2. Vision Wards cost money and take up an inventory slot. When a stealth champion is picked, it is common for the opposing team’s champions to have to keep Vision Wards on-hand to tactically counter the stealth. We do not think it is appropriate for the choice of a stealth champion to impose such a large financial restriction on the opposing team. This restriction means that the opposing team has to pour their resources into temporary tactical advantages at the expense of investing in their character’s permanent power. The Stealth champion, however just builds permanent power.

Stealth is Unnecessarily Hard to Parse: Each of our stealth abilities’ VFX, SFX and tooltips are different. This lack of shared language makes it difficult for* players to quickly recognize stealth as well as learn it as a general concept. This increases player frustration and leads to slower recognition of stealth’s mechanics and counters (Pink Wards, Sweeper).

STEALTH Changes: Stealth Keywords and Unified Visuals There are two general use cases for stealth: the strategic (Evelynn) and the tactical (Akali). We created two keywords so we can introduce counters that are appropriate for each case and to increase clarity. Stealth - Camouflage: This is stealth that is primarily strategic in nature. It allows you to hide your position on the map, but not reliably in combat. You are revealed by nearby Turrets, Enemy Champions and Control Wards. (Will be further discussed below) Stealth - Invisibility: This is stealth that is primarily tactical in nature. It allows you to safely maneuver and mitigate damage in fights. You are still revealed by nearby turrets because turrets are important as safe places for champions to retreat to in times of danger. Along with these new keywords we are introducing common visuals for entering and exiting stealth states. These should help with legibility when you are playing against stealth units.

Soft-counters for Stealth To avoid the hard countering problem we are introducing a soft-counter that should be accessible to most champions. If you damage an enemy champion while they are stealthed you will get a ghostly outline at their position. This should feel fairly intuitive and allows you to track stealthed enemies without completely nullifying the power of their abilities.

Champion Ability Counter’s for Stealth There are currently champion abilities which reveal enemy units. We think that this generally adds interesting counter-play between champions. That being said, the reliability of an abilities stealth reveal makes a big difference here. E.G: Lee Sin’s Q has counterplay. His E however is a lot more reliable and could invalidate enemy stealthed champions abilities. We want to see how the stealth world shakes out before we decide what to do these abilities, but we will be keeping an eye on these matchups.

Replace Vision Wards with Control Wards We are removing warding as a hard-counter against stealth. Control Wards will not reveal Invisible units. Control Wards will still reveal Camouflage as we think their is fair gameplay around a Camouflaged character skirting around enemy wards.

CONTROL WARDS and VISION: For this preseason, we took a look at the different ways players could deny vision: Sweepers: Used to clear pre-existing vision. Vision Wards: Used to clear pre-existing vision and provide awareness of future vision that enters an area. One chunk of design space that is not represented above is the ability to define an explicitly vision-free area. Can you drop a ward that will pre-emptively let you erect vision defenses. This was our inspiration for the Control Ward.

The Control Ward not only reveals nearby enemy wards and traps, but also disables them allowing you to create a safe place. We call this effect, “Jamming” a ward. When a Control Ward is jamming something, it will reveal itself through of Fog of War. This allows players to react to their wards’ denial and clear the Control Ward from a distance. The vision blocking mechanic adds a sizeable amount of power to vision denial. For this reason, there are some levers we can change if Control Wards prove to be overly punishing to net vision. (EG: Vision/Jamming range, ward health, ward health regeneration)

The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors: A final note on vision: We are going to be keeping a close eye on how dark/light the map is. We know you all have concerns over an overly dark map (especially with Assassins arriving). We do too. Still, rest assured that we will be monitoring vision closely to make necessary changes.

67 Comments

Lord Desert8 votes

As we are talking about inventory space: Pls, make a trinket for the Control Ward! Late game, there is a though desicion between having a Control Ward or a Full item in the last slot. Normaly only Sups struggle with this, which sucks to be honest, so take my soul, money, sanity or whatever you like, but pls give us this trinket for Control Wards! We Sups want 6 itemslots too :'c

Deep Terror Nami5 votes

Control Wards will still reveal Camouflage as we think their is fair gameplay around a Camouflaged character skirting around enemy wards.

*there

item 2043

Joe Mana4 votes

[deleted]

Kazamuki3 votes

I would love if the trinkets allowed for any type of vision (and vision control) so that supports could have their 6th item slot (or allow the sight stone to be upgraded for control wards).

BIackfox3 votes

change eve's stealth to akali's stealth.

DarkRitual3 votes

Yeah, let's remove the one thing you can do to see her coming. That won't move her up the power tiers at all.

BIackfox2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, let's remove the one thing you can do to see her coming. That won't move her up the power tiers at all.

Which she deserves.

DarkRitual2 votes

You honestly think that wouldn't lead to her being massively nerfed? She deserves a rework, not an absurd overbuff.

Weathered2 votes

If your stance is being not in favor of binary up front counters to stealth, could you give some context on the control ward's ability to disable Shacos boxes in an area fairly uninteractively? This is a major subject for lane Shaco, and is especially prevent because of the reduced price of these wards and ability to have two up at once (last I checked).

Kazamuki5 votes

You make a good point, although with this new system, Shaco could place a box to be disabled by a control ward, then he can go invisible behind them (which would not be detected by the control ward) and get his backstab on. I feel like you could use the "safety" of a control ward to play some mind games.

Tenth Leper2 votes

Soooooo do control wards still take up inventory space or are we deliberately failing to solve a problem you just acknowledged with pink wards?

Kazamuki8 votes

I think the problem as they saw it was taking up ward space to hard-counter the previous stealth-using champs. Control wards and Pinks used for vision clearing is something both teams have access to so equal money would be spent (assuming equal skill) by both teams for vision control.

The argument above is spending the 75 gold to counter akali for each fight was bad when akali could spend the 75 gold (times however many times the enemy got a pink) she didn't need on permanent stats (like items).

RiotColin6 votes

Yup, you put it well Kazamuki.

Hige4 votes

This doesn't solve the problem for vision during late game though, not to mention that supports get the end side of the stick once again because not only do they hardly reach 6 items but given the case they do they are expected to keep warding, be it control or pink..

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

So now those items which supports still have to fill their inventory with late game will have fewer uses? Please explain to me why I'm going to be able to do even less than before as the support?

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

And that's disgusting.

Lord Desert2 votes

I might have missed it, but what will those item 3341 item 3364 reveal? item 3341: stealth?, camo only?, gives only the red shadow effect from item 3364 for a stealth unit? item 3364: reveals camo units or only shows the red shadow of them?

RiotColin11 votes

Both will give you the red shadows for invisible and camouflaged units.

Lord Desert1 votes

Thx for the info! But isnt item 3341 now technicly always weaker then item 3364 ? (cause its not moveable, but does the same thing) or do I miss something?

DarkRitual5 votes

item 3341 can be used to scout from range. Other than that, it is inferior in every way (radius, duration, size, movement area coverage).

Lord Desert1 votes

well i would consider item 3363 as the better scout, the 2 k range is nice but it always felt alot weaker then the sweeper :/ I think possibly exchanging the duration of the two, so sweeper is shorter, but mobil, might be a decent solution, to make the lens equal to the sweeper?

DarkRitual1 votes

That's fine for scouting for unstealthed enemies and wards.

I the duration needs to be larger on the mobile one. No need to be able to clear two wards in an area there is only a chance of there being one in. Decently lower cooldown would be the right thing for Sweeping Lens

Rivuo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Colin,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=x3r57N5b,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-10-28T22:01:15.234+0000)

Both will give you the red shadows for invisible and camouflaged units.

Dont think vayne and duskblade are going to be... a bit too much..?

Meep Man2 votes

My name is Colin, it's cool to know a Red has the same name as me.

RiotColin4 votes

+1 for the Colins of the world

Frostarian1 votes

noice

Dessem1 votes

Camouflage only detected by Control Wards, Turret and Champions. Does that mean Pinks no longer work there?

Kazamuki10 votes

Pinks are being removed from the game, as far as I was aware. Control Wards replace Pinks.

Dessem3 votes

Well, that'd explain why pinks aren't mentioned. Thanks for the clarification!

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Are you concerned with how strong invisibility will be? We can't always fight by turrets.

RiotColin9 votes

Invisibility will definitely be stronger. It should also be more reliable power which we can balance around.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku4 votes

any plan for the fluidity of decoy on wukong ? its been almost 1 year we are waiting for a qol... going invisible need to be less predictibable

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

How many champions will be invisible?

Weiner the Pooh7 votes

Oh boy, these invisibility changes coupled with the new duskblade passive totally aren't going to be super busted on Vayne.

TheSingularity4 votes

Would you guys potentially consider making control ward trinkets? And re adding the upgraded yellow trinket?

Considering that..... despite making the upgradrs free, many low elo players simply cbf warding excluding bot laners and fewer people even upgrade to sweeper/scrying Thus the removal of the 250g pink/yellow trinkets really crushed players who base their play style around vision. Now, without purchasable greens or those trinkets as well as this absurd ward limit you've imposed..... it's very difficult for utility style players (me) to make an impact in low elo (usually through vision control and CC)

If given the option to upgrade my trinket pre-9 for 250g, I'd take it any day. It'd be a perfect jungle buy. Recall, buy green smite+yellow/control trinket. I'd be in heaven, monitoring the enemy junglers movements and they'd have the plant (if you keep em), raptors (if you don't) as well as control wards/sweeper.

Please, just like your proposal to remove item sets. Don't make those who love/depend on an item class/utility suffer because the majority don't use it.

Ps: this also applies to homeguard. If I could buy homeguard early I'd do it without a second thought.

CrimsonCobra32 votes

An interesting note on trinkets: I rarely upgrade my trinket to the scrying option because I prefer to have two wards out than a brief window of vision that decays into a tiny bubble of vision. And at my elo/solo, almost no-one wards anyway, so I rarely take sweeper when jungling. I think I'm going to really love the control ward changes though, because I often purchase pinks when I jungle, and adding vision denial to the mix could really help a lot. I could drop a control ward in my laner's bush, notice if any enemy wards are revealed, and watch to see if they're paying attention. And now they're even cheaper.

TheSingularity2 votes

Hehe I'm really liking the purpose of the control ward. Good feken luck ppl who wanna steal my blue, that sucker's goin straight into blue brush.

And I'm da same. Screw scrying. When you're fat enough you just face check cos yolo. I'm practically green smite + oracles lense + pink ery game.

I find.... that I ward top and mid lanes river bushes more than both teams mid/tops combined. Global support, just the way I like it (NOT SARCASM!!!!)

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Agreed. :)

RawManNoodles1 votes

Ok, as a person who plays AP teemo and Shaco, control wards totally suck. Luring enemies into traps is something that takes quite a bit of thought and skill to correctly pull off. Control wards could easily negate a pathway for a gank on these two champions, something that often times could result in a double kill if they walked though your trap. On top of that, if more than 2 or 3 people place wards onto baron or dragon pit trap champions will be completely useless. Plus the low price of 50 gold makes this a very plausible scenario.

YuGiHo3 votes

how is this different than pink wards?

VorpalKitsune1 votes

Because traps are disabled so they wont go off in addition being visible. With the pinks, they still have to deal with them, be it going around or stopping to clear them. This gives you chances to make plays around it despite the debilitating effects from the pink, but with the control ward, you do not have much if any options available.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

I have a question, since it wasn't clearly stated, and I haven't seen an instance of this appear yet in PBE videos I've watched. Do control wards jam preexisting enemy control wards? I assume the answer is no. I'd expect control wards to jam normal enemy wards, but not interfere with the function of enemy control wards. However, if control wards always jam any ward in the area they're dropped in, that could massively change the equation.

RiotColin2 votes

Control Wards do not currently jam other Control Wards

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Thanks.

GilGaMeSh Jr1 votes

does duskblade disable control wards?

Yordleassault1 votes

How about Teemo's R? From what I see here, control wards will be able to reveal and disable it. Does that not count as a hard counter for 75 gold? Or do the control wards not make the shrooms targetable? Also, now if you hit him with a skillshot or AOE spell, you'll see his outline. That's a small nerf to him as now they can spam those spells at a Teemo player instead of shooting them everywhere, trying to find him. If he waits for a gank or his teammates to come and save him, than he has potentially less survivability, also, now he can be "found" by accident (example: minion wave clear by AOE spell and accidentially hit him too) which is a bad thing for an otherwise perfectly set up ambush. Will he get some compensation for this?

DarioSiehtFeinde1 votes

What will happen to ward skins. Will you create a control-ward version for every skin?

It always made me sad when I placed a pinkward and it wasn't pink 'cause I use a ward skin. [zombie-nunu-bummed] Or at least give us a way to disable that ward-skins affect control wards 'cause the default control-ward model looks interesting and I want to use it whlie I have a skin for my normal wards.

Antr0p0s1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Colin,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=x3r57N5b,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-10-28T18:40:47.150+0000)

The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors: A final note on vision: We are going to be keeping a close eye on how dark/light the map is. We know you all have concerns over an overly dark map (especially with Assassins arriving). We do too. Still, rest assured that we will be monitoring vision closely to make necessary changes.

that made my day. ehrmm i mean it made my night.

Speont1 votes

Hello. I am making a champion suggestion as a part of my game design portfolio. Can you please tell me what Riots developers think about making a champion in LoL with similar transparency passive like Mortred from original Dota ( not Dota 2, where Mortred isn't transparent ) ? Or like Ghosts / Dark Templar fluctuations from Starcraft 2? I am not talking about Stealth or Camouflage, but visual effect that makes champion hard to spot at first sight, but he still can be fought and targeted as a normal champion.

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