Skip to content

Mid Season Tanks Update - Zac

RiotShrieve··1 votes·141,590 views

Hey guys I’m here to talk about the last champion in the upcoming Tank Update, Zac! Zac As to our overarching direction for tanks I’d refer to Sol’s recent post, but let’s get down to why we’re including our bounciest Vanguard in the update.

Here's what we're happy with and sticking to on Zac:

  • Elastic Slingshot is a fun, satisfying spell that allows Zac to initiate from a lot of interesting angles and distances

  • Zac’s passive blob pickups creates a uniquely engaging way to sustain himself

  • Zac is the knockback and knockup Vanguard, a natural extension of his bouncy character

  • Cell Division (his revive passive) encourages Zac to utilize the long reach of his initiation to go deeper into the enemy team than other Vanguards

So then why are we picking him up for the Tank Update? While Zac’s strategic elements feel pretty interesting (see above), we feel tactically he falls pretty flat (see below). On top of that, we think we could expand even further on what it means to be League’s shape-changing, bouncy, goo-man.

**Here’s what is likely to change with Zac: **

  • Zac’s current kit encourages him to activate all his abilities in a single burst for maximum damage, instead of spreading them out to disrupt and bounce around the enemy team

  • After initiation, there is very little variance or mastery to his combat pattern, consisting of primarily sitting on one target and spamming his Q and W

  • Keeping in line with our overall Tank update goals, we’d like to shift some his reliable damage into additional forms of CC (we already felt that his two passives provide unique forms of defenses)

  • Although some of his abilities hit the mark, we feel that his kit could further stretch the blob man fantasy and give him a more distinct sticky feel in the Vanguard space

  • Stretching Strike does little to explore the stretching punch idea and ends up having a very similar output to Unstable Matter (AoE damage when you’re right next to someone)

  • Let’s Bounce! is a more chaotic version of Wukong’s _Ultimate _(Cyclone) rather than the potential teamfight-defining moment that Zac’s unique, sticky, bouncy nature promises

We’re looking to turn our resident goo-man into the premier displacement Vanguard, shuffling his opponents around the battlefield with sticky, stretchy, chaotic abilities that feel uniquely Zac.

_Let’s Bounce, Shrieve _

P.S. we’re not supposed to give you details yet… but yes, his voice now pitches up and down as he changes in size

290 Comments

Keevalroy95 votes

P.S. we’re not supposed to give you details yet… **but yes, his voice now pitches up and down as he changes in size **

You're doing god's work.

RiotShrieve37 votes

Gotchu fam.

(really props to our audio guys... they did all the work there)

RiotRiot 10YearSanta23 votes

How do you expect AP Zac to change as a result of this update? Will he still be viable?

Sahn Uzal7 votes

Asking the important questions

Silently awaits an answer....

RiotShrieve12 votes

With these tanks updates we're shuffling a lot of their burst into either more sustained or less reliable damage patterns so I'd expect some playstyle changes. We're focused on tuning and supporting tank builds but we aren't going out of our way to remove AP Zac.

TotalJerk13 votes

This reads like "We're completely ignoring AP Zac while working on this update, and it might just get killed incidentally".

Ahristocats11 votes

{quoted}

  • Stretching Strike does little to explore the stretching punch idea and ends up having a very similar output to Unstable Matter (AoE damage when you’re right next to someone)

Am i allowed to say that the range is too short for the spell to explore the stretching punch idea? i mean it feels like zac does just a normal punch due to the range

additionally the spell has little counterplay, while it isn't instant am i the only player who doesn't manage to do something against it? once zac presses Q it's hard to dodge it

Feedback: i feel like riot needs to increase his Q range while delaying it more then maybe change the damge/slow effect to something else, that's up to you friends

sincerly, the doctor

Ralanr7 votes

Honestly the spell that has the least counterplay in his kit feels like his W imo since it's just instant AoE splash damage. A delay on his Q would be interesting. Sort of like an old timer wind up punch.

Ahristocats1 votes

That goes without saying, i didn't say his W had counterplays

But the rioter talked about his Q which is why it made me focused on it i hope they increase the range while delaying the punch, like a darius kind of delay (maybe shorter)

Ralanr4 votes

#HERE'S THE WINDUP!

RiotShrieve10 votes

The Q we're tinkering with has a different range and width profile from the live Stretching Strike. Our end goal is to have something that feels a little more physical and Zac 'goo-like' instead of an instant pop of AoE damage.

Also you can expect something more interesting than a slow.

Spideraxe2 votes

Oh yeah you are lead on Zac then i'm guessing, same with SolCrushed on Sej and Beluga on maokai, do you feel as though his Q could afford something more interesting with how his power budget is

RiotShrieve6 votes

The trickiest part of these updates is that adding something new typically means you have to pull from somewhere else on the kit. Part of this power shift can come from new spells (such as the new Q having a longer cooldown than his current one) or number tweaks on the abilities we are not mechanically changing. If we feel that the promise of a new spell is worth it, we'll spend the time to extensively playtest number tuning across the kit to find a changelist that respects the new spells without gutting the old ones that we liked.

Dolasaur2 votes

Gut feeling on the likelihood of E max range changing? I've played a lot of Zac over the years, and the extra 50 range on E per level was really satisfying. I agree with all the points you brought up, and I'm super excited for the update. I'm just hoping that pretty much anything else on his kit gets numbers nerfs before his E range.

RiotShrieve9 votes

We've been avoiding range changes on the E.

Ahristocats2 votes

{quoted}

The Q we're tinkering with has a different range and width profile from the live Stretching Strike. Our end goal is to have something that feels a little more physical and Zac 'goo-like' instead of an instant pop of AoE damage.

Well that definitly means it is no longer instant, and has a different range/width i mean i understood it since you said "instead of instant aoe damage" so i hope the instant is going out

{quoted} Also you can expect something more interesting than a slow.

thank you Riot Shrieve for your time, those 2 informations are extremely satisfying

RiotShrieve6 votes

No problem!

Maxxston6 votes

{quoted}

Also you can expect something more interesting than a slow.

Is it safe to say that new Zac is going to have a "stick/drag" mechanic somewhere on his kit? (e.g. dragging around champs hit by the ult, or comboing Q in some way for the same). Based on your post, it seems like CC mechanics that emphasize the "stuck to me" part of his gelatinous-ness could be interesting/in-line with your goals. Or maybe some sort of "decreased MS away/increased MS towards" Zac mechanic for that rubber-band feeling?

RiotShrieve10 votes

Your head is definitely in the right place!

warpenguin5557 votes

Omg. I can now imagine Zac ulting and people getting stuck in him.

Hakubak9 votes

Although I did expect Zac to be on here, I did not expect to see that he's the last update. I was hoping for Malphite , Amumu , or even Rammus to get some love in this update. I hope they're going to have some form of small changes, like the Xerath /Veigar /Anivia /etc changes from the Mage Update.

Regardless, I'm interested to see how this update goes. I've always thought his Q and W were a little bland, especially the W. Notice the pattern among Zac , Sejuani , Malphite , and Amumu how they all have Strong AoE cc and at least one ability that is "damage in an AoE around them," with something just a little different for each one. Zac 's W cooldown is reduced by picking up his passive, Malphite 's E reduces enemy attack speed, Sejuani 's W applies her Frost and is an auto reset, and Amumu 's W is a toggle that drains mana, and his E's cooldown is reduced when taking damage. I hope the changes to Zac and Sejuani can at least seperate them from the group.

RiotStatikk18 votes

I know the choices of Zac and Maokai are somewhat unexpected. The unfortunate truth is that we didn't feel like we could give champions like Malphite, Amumu, and Rammus the attention they deserved given the smaller scope of these types of projects.

We ruled out Amumu and Rammus early on since they deserve full-on VGUs.

Malphite on the other hand we took a crack at, but didn't walk away with anything we thought that fit him or the game well enough. We tried things like turning him into a wall (sick Poppy / Vayne combos that never actually worked out heh), echoing earthquakes, etc. that all had some promise but just didn't work out as expected. Maybe we'll figure it out in the future.

For Amumu, we think there's some small quality of life changes we can do, that could even go out in the fairly near future just to help modernize and clarify some of his current mechanics. But larger scale updates of his abilities are something for the later future.

Rammus, although there are a lot of cool ideas in our heads, just needs a lot more love to fully realize the potential of his fast-rolling armordillo fantasy.

Hige8 votes

I hate to nitpick your comment statikk but doesn't Malphite deserve a full on VGU as well? you did mention both Amumu and Rammus but not Malph and the poor guy has probably the worst model out of the 3 :S

Carnicore9 votes

I'll be honest, that's really flimsy justification for reworking him when there are so many less interesting vanguards. Are Amumu, Malphite, Rammus, Leona, and Skarner all supposed to get full VGUs in the future?

RiotReav317 votes

Yes

XIII Vanitas5 votes

Leona too?!

I'm quite surprised.

Carnicore6 votes

I'm not. Her gameplay is really one-dimensional, all she does is EQ and combo that with R whenever it's available.

XIII Vanitas7 votes

She can also R, if her E is out of range, and then follow up with E+Q... :V

Samflash31 votes

They could give her depth by making her able to reactivate W at anytime for quick waveclear/burst at the cost of losing the shield bonus and slightly less damage.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

That wouldn't add anything since she wants the stat bonus for going all in and she wants the full damage too.

RiotReav33 votes

Probably not Leona (At least anytime soon)

BeZaggin8 votes

Long time Zac main here, and I have to say I agree with a lot of the stuff you're saying. Honestly, I find that he functions best as an anticarry rather than a true disrupter, I usually get cinderhulk》liandries and snowball into pure tank, you can kill most squishy champs with nearly no counterplay until they get penetration, and even then they need peel.

If you're looking to up his power as an initiator, look no further than dealing with the enormous weakness he has to straight line knockbacks. Against janna and draven, he basically cany initiate at all. You could afford to trim a pretty significant amount of damage if you did that.

Also, one of the things that I feel is special about Zac' s ult is that you can flash right before he hits the ground to select the direction you want to push someone. Offers him 2 initiation chances with e》r》f, or just gives you a redo if you miss the slingshot. If you could play up that aspect of the ult, people might start using it differently than just a temporary dps up.

ModAcademy Kayn7 votes

Imagine if a fully charged Zac jump could ignore knockback/displacement effects.

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

Overall, these vanguards don't seem to be getting major updates compared to the last few roster updates. Why is that?

Keevalroy3 votes

They explained earlier that they want to keep them feeling similar instead of changing everything about them like they've done with a few previous updates. They finally realized there was a reason players liked certain champions, and changing everything about them, if nothing else, for the sake of change, creates a very unhappy fanbase of those champions, so they're dialing back on the extreme reworks with the updates. It's also why there's much less this time - changing too much, too quickly results in people being unhappy that everything is being reworked when half of those updated were fine, and it seemed like they were trying to fit a quota rather than update what is necessary.

Malicious Metal13 votes

You're quite mistaken. They focus on THREE BIG ones instead of a larger amount. Quality>Quantity-

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

No, I mean compared to the other classes, almost their entire kits were changed. So far, it feels like Vanguards are just getting one or two abilities changed.

Quepha7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=vLEjALxZ,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2017-02-28T20:50:21.172+0000)

No, I mean compared to the other classes, almost their entire kits were changed. So far, it feels like Vanguards are just getting one or two abilities changed.

most big class reworks only see like two abilities significantly changed, look at the big 4 in the assassin rework:

LeBlanc: Q changed a little, ult changed a little and added the global duplicate thing. W and E basically unchanged. Talon: Q and E changed a lot, W was slowed down but otherwise pretty similar, passive changed a little, ult didn't change. Rengar: Q, W, and passive changed, E and ult basically the same in most situations. Katarina: Passive and W changed, Q sortof changed to incorporate passive, E very minor change, R untouched.

Xonra3 votes

All the tanks so far seem to be ones I wouldn't have exactly put on the block for changes, so seems a bit odd so far. The changes aren't BAD, so I'm not complaining, just seems there are other champs that could use some love over like, Zac and Mao for example.

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

Many other vanguards really med full vgus eventually but how do you feel about nautilus? With maokai taking on what sounds like a zone control identity you're still left with nautilus as this very generalist tank I think.

Meanwhile you also have sion who's also kind of general strengths but he pretty much never gets picked in pro play over nautilus or maokai (or poppy but she does have some pretty unique stuff especially her w)

I know you guys have said you don't want to do a bunch of small updates on every tank but you really don't expect to even touch a few of them? I'm just throwing this out there but 8 think you could play up sions e shred a bit to make him a good pick when you want a tank and the enemy team has a few talks themselves.

Anyway all 3 of your reworks sound pretty cool bard on what you've told us so far

RiotReav310 votes

Currently we are only planning on 3 big ones. WE really want to focus down on fewer updates to increase the overall quality of the updates. We likely won't do any small updates this time. The Tank update will be mostly about the systematic changes we are going to make to the whole class rather then the individual kit updates.

Levost6 votes

I think that given the lack of official release-communications that this is going to end up giving, you guys should consider doing a post about your plans for systemic changes. Any thoughts there/is this on your radar? There will, I promise, DEFINITELY be huge interest in something like that.

RiotStatikk17 votes

Will look into the possibility of doing a post about the more systemic changes. The largest issue with giving you guys an update now on this is that we are still in the process of figuring out exactly how to solve the systemic problems we're seeing. Either way we could do a post more about the problems themselves rather than any solutions.

Levost7 votes

Sweet, thanks. I think even that would be good

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

Wait, so there's nothing for Nunu in this update at all other than changes to resistances? That sucks a little.

RiotReav38 votes

Nunu is pretty high on our list for a full VGU one day. He needs a lot of work on the art/narrative side as well.

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

I understand that. We all do. But would it really require that many resources to give him a mini-update in the mean time? Even less than that, just fixing some of his problems with numbers changes would be greatly appreciated. As an excuse, you could say it gives the person who did the work more experience with Nunu so his eventual VGU goes more smoothly.

RiotReav36 votes

Live Gameplay actually did do some small changes to Nunu a couple months ago

EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votes

I have a question about nunus eventual vgu. Would you guys ever make as big a change as say, making nunu a yordle? Because on the one hand I think it fits his goody nature very well and you can explore what a freljordian yordle might be like. On the other hand it would obviously be a big change in who he is as a character, bigger than other reworks. But again I think tonally it would be a perfect fit

RiotReav310 votes

Who knows, we could go in many directions with his VGU, yordle is definitely one. Gnar is technically the first Freljordian yordle though :)

More from Dev Corner