Midseason Support Item Update - Live on PBE!

RiotLimely·4/18/2017, 6:32:59 PM·1 votes·36,797 views

Hey, Guys! Limely and Riot Colin here to talk about the recent changes we’ve made to the Support starting items: adding Quests and Rewards, and reworking the Ancient Coin line.

TL;DR - We want the Support player’s laning actions to be more interactive, meaningful, and drive towards a feeling of progressing through the game without simply piling on more gold, as it’s very easy to do more harm than good that way. There is still a lot more to do for Supports to catch them up to the other positions; adding quests and their rewards is just one of several steps towards improving the Support experience.

Problem Statement / Solution Space Supports tend to lack meaningful points of comparison - they can’t compare scores like CS, and let’s be honest - “Wards Placed” is not necessarily indicative of good vision play. :P It’s even harder to compare performance when a subset of Support champions are played with an item that allows them to opt out of interacting with the lane if they so choose.

To combat this we have added milestone quests to the starting gold items to allow the player to measure their success during the laning phase, with an impactful reward on hitting a goal - if you can get your reward before your opponent, how will you use that advantage?

We’ve also made changes to the Ancient Coin passive in order to enable meaningful quest progression and encourage lane interaction. Our goal here is to add a pattern that allows opportunities for a higher payout, at a higher risk.

Quest Details Once you have earned a certain amount of gold with your choice of starting item, the item’s quest is replaced with a unique passive.

  • Ancient Coin line: Gain an elixir that instantly grants a skill point when consumed. Takedowns on enemy champions spawn gold and mana coins.
    • You still have a max of 18 skill points per game - you’ll finish leveling your abilities at level 17
    • If your inventory is full, the elixir is automatically consumed (and you can choose a skill)
  • Relic Shield line: Gain a shield that regenerates out of combat. Executing minions accelerates the regeneration.
  • Spellthief’s Edge line: Tribute procs grant a short burst of movement speed.

Ancient Coin Line Rework The old Ancient Coin passive created very stagnant gameplay, and limited our ability to tune its primary users as well as the player’s ability to excel in lane. Whether you were losing or winning lane, there was very little to no impact on your gold income. Here’s how we’re changing that:

  • When minions die near the player (but not due to the player), they sometimes drop a gold or mana coin for the player to pick up
    • Not Yet Implemented for PBE: Cannon minions always drop coins for a little more reliability
    • Mana coins restore % missing mana with a flat floor of mana restored
  • Ancient Coin items now have base ambient gold in line with the other two starting items

There are still some clarity issues around having two Coin players in the game, as well as balance on the risk vs. reward of grabbing those coins, so if you have a chance to play around with it on PBE we would love your feedback to help us fine tune the experience.

Anti-Poaching We understand that giving the Support starting items special power upon quest completion has the risk of making them more appealing to non-support players. We want to avoid poaching on these items - we want the rewards to be impactful, but if it becomes ideal to buy an item whose mini-game you don’t actually plan on actively participating in just to get the reward late game at minimal investment, it cheapens the experience for those who are opting into the gameplay. To limit the item to those who are interested in investing in the item for the item’s sake, the quest cannot be completed unless you have at least the second tier of the item (Nomad’s Medallion, Targon’s Brace, or Frostfang).

Additionally, we changed the timing of spending charges on the Spellthief’s Edge line:

  • The cooldown on spending charges after a minion kill has been decreased from 12 seconds to 8 seconds, but this is now per minion kill. This means if you are Sona and your Q accidentally takes a minion you are punished less, but if you clear a whole wave, don’t expect to be using any of your charges any time soon. :P
    • Frost Queen’s Claim and Eye of the Watcher are unchanged as the restriction is lifted.
  • There is now a delay after a Tribute charge is spent before the same spell can spend another. This means that abilities such as Morgana’s W and Miss Fortune’s E don’t 100% guarantee three stacks of damage/gold if your opponent moves out of the spell area.

We know there are still a lot of improvements we could make to the Support position to make it more compelling and balanced with the other positions. There are some pain points that haven’t been addressed with these changes, but we plan to continue working on ways to give Supports more control over their own destinies. :3

Please let us know what you think! We’ll be around to answer questions for a bit.

Supporting Supports, Limely & Riot Colin ( Nautilus & Trundle )

146 Comments

Swarovsko4/18/2017, 6:54:08 PM17 votes

"lemme get the coin xd" malzahar ults dies In a bot lane dominated by mages how are you even supposed to walk near them with squishy champions like Sona Nami Janna Soraka? That's a disappointing idea honestly. I don't know why you're forcing squishy supports to sit on minions who died near the ENEMY champions. Also, would you imagine how many free hooks thresh and blitz will have? That's disappointing, really disappointing. I was expecting more.

Teridax684/18/2017, 7:59:49 PM7 votes

Why not simply have the Ancient Coin quest grant a free skill point immediately? Put another way, what is the goal of the elixir as an intermediary item? Also, considering how supports tend to not be particularly XP/gold dependent, and how an extra skill point in the mid to late game will end up just adding 0.125s to a taunt or 20 points to a heal, why not simply have the quest provide a full level-up?

KONO RUBICK DA4/18/2017, 6:38:41 PM7 votes

Hey! Janna main here

i wonder what do you plan for her? my concern is the following: -right now Janna has no reliable way to "interact" her kit and numbers literally forces her to stay back and shield an adc

unlike other enchenters her range is not 550, her attack animation is tooooo clunky. Her shield bonus AD has been nerfed to 10, her Q mana cost is 90/105/120/135/150 and doesn't do quite much except stopping dashes which is her speciality

trading is literally impossible with janna and all she does in lane is shield the adc against poke

SOOOOO this new ancient coin is a bad new if people sit on minions and ancient coin, THERE IS NOTHING janna can do to contest this due to everything i listed above. And she can't build spellthief edge for the same reasons

so how are things going to be with that ancient coin?

Lord Desert4/20/2017, 9:29:29 AM4 votes

Hey there, I'm a bit late to the party, Hans needed help refueling thze flammenwerfer :P I have 3 questions which would love to be cleared:

  • Have you guys thought/tested something like a "Questline" for sightstone? (main contendor would be ruby)
  • can I stay at Tier 1 earn the 650G and then buy Tier 2 and instantly upgrade/get the reward?
  • How much better are the upgraded passivs? Tribute -> Queens Tribut, Favor -> EmPoro's Favor, also a rough extimate about the shield strength of targos would be nice (Maybe Moobeat havent found the values yet)
Deep Terror Nami4/18/2017, 6:39:43 PM4 votes

I'm wondering if proccing multiple Tribute charges will add, stack, overlap, or simply refresh the movement speed burst.

DarkRitual4/18/2017, 6:56:43 PM3 votes

Gut instnct tells me Spelltheif's will be bad on Morgana now. But midlane Ahri, Karma, and Taliyah probably like the tribute proc speed boost. As much as you don't want it poached, I don't see how it won't be unless you completely dumpster the stats on it.

Nerian4/18/2017, 8:38:15 PM3 votes

Hey there. My comment is more of an idea I've been sitting on for awhile, and multiple friends think this is a good one.

We'd like to see a damage mitigated stat come out for those champs like Janna and Lulu or even tanks who have shields like Naut, and Tahm Kench.

This would help increase our sense of meaning in a match in post-game. Even seeing stuff from invuln shields like Kayle ult would be fun.

It's just a thought I myself have had for a long time, being a long time Janna main.

We need some recognition, too many people look down on supports and don't credit us for what we actually do half the time. It'd be nice to have a stat to say "Hey, look at all this shielding I did man."

PeepingPeafowl4/18/2017, 8:50:09 PM2 votes

In testing, how feasible was it for a coin support who had successfully bullied their lane opponent under tower to grab coins under tower, and vice versa?

Also how does the gold rewards of the coin line compare to the others?

Krys Star4/19/2017, 6:00:21 AM2 votes

Thinking about it now, I'm kind of scared of how the loss of Coin line's heal on minion death will affect Soraka. It's an indirect nerf to her, and would hurt her survival against aggressive lanes (Leona, Nami, Sona, Blitzcrank, Zyra, Malzahar, Thresh which is pretty much 90% of your supports).

Will you guys be watching her?

aítch4/18/2017, 6:52:39 PM2 votes

I'm just saying gp will always go ancient coin if that's a thing. He essentially gets to scale faster now

Champions like Leblanc might also be able to abuse that ancient coin passive that really does seem way too powerful to have in the game but this is just all theory crafting for now.

hallfro4/18/2017, 7:05:06 PM2 votes

So if the support consumes the Coin elixer, levels an ability, and then sells the Coin item, will they keep the leveled ability? Just wondering how this interaction is going to work and if supports will be forced to hold onto their laning items to benefit from the quests late game.

Azuraccoon4/19/2017, 3:58:49 PM1 votes

for the Ancient Coin's Drop: How long do the coins last on the ground and is there a limit on how many there can be?

HexaDecimel4/18/2017, 6:58:35 PM1 votes

Will we get to see more info on the tank update along with the mid season changes? Or do we have to wait for that?