[INTRO] Brian "FeralPony" Feeney - Live Gameplay Design Lead

RiotFeralPony·Dec 16, 2015·1 votes·23,408 views

WHO AM I?

Hello folks, I’m Brian ‘FeralPony’ Feeney.

I’m currently the Lead Designer of the Live Gameplay Team, we’re a team responsible for much of the patch to patch design improvements and game balance for previously released content. I’ve worked on a lot of different design teams in my 5 years here including Champions, Champion Reworks/Updates, Game Balance, Systems Design, and Game Clarity.

Prior to joining Riot, I was finished my Comp Science degree and got my Masters in Teaching (focusing on Math and Science teaching). I also worked on a farm for many years in my youth picking up a lot of scars and injuries from boars, cattle, and bees. I play almost every game genre, including board games and sports, and have been super interested recently in how psychology and perception influence people’s experience with games. I also nerd out over cool game design blogs, books, and rulebook writing for board games.

WHAT AM I GOING TO TALK ABOUT?

I’ll generally be talking about League of Legends similar to Meddler, with a focus on shorter term “where the game is currently at” and “what we’re looking at in the short term”. I may also deep dive some specific choices we’ve made/are making in regards to game balance etc but those’ll be pretty ad-hoc. I may also bring up some seemingly random tangential non-league stuff about game design that has been chewing away in the back of my mind I’d love to get additional opinions and thoughts on!

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR FROM ME?

This is a question for you guy, so it feels weird to answer it, but I’m pretty open here. Nothing is inherently off the table, but I’ll play it by ear. I can talk about current work, any random game design stuff, past projects, etc. What would you folks like to hear from me?

106 Comments

Juggernaut628Dec 16, 20155 votes

Who are you? I think you're FeralPony, if that helps.

Simple question: Yorick pre-2020 or post-2020?

aperson1Dec 16, 20155 votes

Do you have any more plans to nerf Kalista beyond the mana nerfs on PBE (preferably to her passive)? I see her all the time and I really hate playing against her, and whenever I tune into a high elo stream it makes me not want to watch. I watched a featured game once where the red side team simply opened mid after Kalista was 4/0/0, I think the score was like 9-4, it's ridiculous how easily a supposed utility carry can run away with the game. Also I suspect she's holding back decent on-hit itemization for ranged which makes champs like Kog really sad. Sorry I know this is a really big rant but it frustrates me that such an obnoxious champ is allowed to dominate her role for so long when equally obnoxious but far less popular champs get nerfed the moment they seem out of line.

RiotFeralPonyDec 16, 20154 votes

Possibly, future adjustments would likely be more focused around frustration, further focusing her identity, or counterplay. We've made a lot of improvements over the patches to her but she is certainly a polarizing champion that is super fun for a lot of players but also frustrating for a lot as well.

I strongly disagree she is "holding back" on-hit itemization. I don't think anyone is but if they are it's actually kog'maw himself atm since it's really difficult now to make an on-hit item that is solidly balanced for a group of champions that isn't broken for Kog, and we try to avoid making an item that only works on a single champion.

RetillinDec 16, 20151 votes

In the last year or so, it FEELS like as if there are a higher number of frustrating champions being released. Gnar, Azir, Kalista, Ekko, Tahm, Kindred, and maybe even Illaoi. (Bard and Rek seemed to only be "frustrating" when they had high raw power, mostly Rek)

Is this due to the idea that Riot is trying to make really "unique" champions? Or lack of understanding that certain mechanics are much more frustrating for players than internal testing shows?

RiotFeralPonyDec 17, 20152 votes

I think it's more the result of being more experimental in our more recent designs. Unfortunately, the easiest way to not make frustrating experiences is to stay in the same safe space, which we're not big fans of and players were rightly upset with when we released a lot of "same-y feeling champions" in a row.

We do playtest champions for a long time and tend to get a pretty good feeling for the long term "frustration" of a champion. Illaoi I think falls into this camp. Initially, I found her really her frustrating but that faded pretty quickly as I got more experience playing with and against the champion and now don't mind her at all, but can totally empathize with some of the feelings of frustration having been there myself.

Earl EulrichDec 16, 20152 votes

and we try to avoid making an item that only works on a single champion.

so...why nerf wit´s end? right now the only use often is either snowballing or rushing it for a good spike on koggy. It hadnßt been overly popular or gamebreaking and you still nerfed it in preseason, and you didn´t only nerf it - you took away the very thematic 42. the galaxy is really dissappointed with you.

KeevalroyDec 18, 20151 votes

Possibly, future adjustments would likely be more focused around frustration, further focusing her identity, or counterplay.

Have you established what that identity actually is? Is she a malevolent spirit of vengeance like her lore implies or she a kangaroo for no reason other than "lol that's fun and unique right guys?" They don't seem to go together, and choosing one of those two identities would make a lot more sense than the other if you catch my drift...

DeBigMoistDec 19, 20151 votes

kog maw feels kind of shitty to play are there any plans on him?

Photos of GhostsDec 20, 20151 votes

What about just outright removing her utility (outsmiting, vision) so that se gets less picked in competitive and the "Kalista is bullshit" meme dies down, resulting in her not being perceived as strong anymore, opening up for buffs and allowing to lower the skillfloor?

D rokDec 16, 20153 votes

Masteries!

Why did you make the choice to enhance the effect of masteries so much? Do you feel this is going to have an effect on your ability to balance the game's champions over the next few months? Small mastery changes at this level of power seem like they could have pretty far-ranging effects on the champion pool's balance.

How do you expect masteries will end up playing in terms of power level? Currently, they're stronger than many champion passives. Do you worry about masteries eclipsing the identity of a champion?

Thanks!

edit: Specifically speaking towards the final keystone masteries here.

RiotFeralPonyDec 16, 20156 votes

I didn't work much on the Keystone Masteries but I've worked on all the previous Mastery adjustments and am very familiar with that space. The changes to keystones will almost certainly make champion balance more difficult, rather than easier. The same is true for items with more unique effects rather than many of the "Stat stick" style items. Introducing more unique items and masteries makes balance generally more difficult, rather than easier but we feel the tradeoffs are worth it. There are some benefits where sometimes these more extreme variations can balance themselves out to some degree but that's the exception more than the norm. The goals of the keystone adjustments are to increase satisfaction, make choices more meaningful, and give players another avenue to optimize and experiment. They were not designed to make balance any easier.

Our goal is to never have your pregame choices overshadow your champion choice or identity. If we ever reach a state where I care more about what keystone mastery you chose over what champion you chose we've gone too far (you should be fighting Caitlyn, not a Thunderlord. Unless it's Kennen or Volibear), but we want those choices to be meaningful. Finding that right balance is tricky and one that will need time and continued feedback since these boundaries are largely feel and perception based. I think it's okay if they are more impactful than some champion passive or starting items but they absolutely should be eclipsing your overall identity as a champion.

D rokDec 16, 20152 votes

Thanks for the reply!

I'm excited to see you echo my sentiments. I'll admit, I've been a little worried about the direction the current manifestation of masteries has taken, in terms of it's effect on the general power levels of a champion (in that they seem very strong). But it's nice to see that the intention is still to provide choices in specialization, rather than identity.

Lovely PantsDec 16, 20155 votes

In function, do these masteries like thunder lords and death fire actually represent something different than a stat stick, though?

From my point of view, they don't really add meaningful decision making or strategy into the way you play a champion. I don't want them to be stronger, but if they are just the incidental damage buffs for a particular play style, you just choose the one that works better with your champions kit and it simply equals more damage.

If my perspective is correct on this, it's just an arbitrary damage boost to specific champions that synergize best with it.

D rokDec 16, 20152 votes

I agree with this from what we've seen of this so far. That's why I was worried about champion balance being so skewed because of it. I'm hoping they make them slightly less impactful, specifically for trades, and maybe more focused on personal utility.

RiotFeralPonyDec 17, 20153 votes

I think they do offer some level of playstyle and expression differences between builds, though it's not super crazy, but I think does actually can and does have an impact on players. While not redefining the champion I feel the difference between a Champion like Ezreal poking you with Q's with deathfire versus one bursting you with Q -> E -> Attack + Thunderlords is a meaningful distinction and does allow players a level of playstyle and expression.

You're are hitting on a very high level philosophical level of decision making and choices in games which is really interesting. Essentially if remove the elements of playstyle and choice/intellectual satisfaction you're left in an interesting spot. Essentially if a choice between Option A and Option B is at all optimal is it essentially irrelevant because you just pick the more optimal one. Alternatively if Option A and Option B are truly equal and balance then is your decision essentially irrelevant because it doesn't matter what you pick. If Option A and Option B matter, but only in regards your opponents choices, it's again irrelevant unless you have some social gaming aspect where you're outguessing your opponent.

Breaking down problems like you're doing to an abstract level is really useful approach and tool for a designer to evaluate a system at its base level, but damn can it take the fun out of games :D. I noticed personally I started having a lot less fun with games in my personal time the more time I spent in the Systems design space.

BastileanDec 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think they do offer some level of playstyle and expression differences between builds, though it's not super crazy, but I think does actually can and does have an impact on players. While not redefining the champion I feel the difference between a Champion like Ezreal poking you with Q's with deathfire versus one bursting you with Q -> E -> Attack + Thunderlords is a meaningful distinction and does allow players a level of playstyle and expression.

You're are hitting on a very high level philosophical level of decision making and choices in games which is really interesting. Essentially if remove the elements of playstyle and choice/intellectual satisfaction you're left in an interesting spot. Essentially if a choice between Option A and Option B is at all optimal is it essentially irrelevant because you just pick the more optimal one. Alternatively if Option A and Option B are truly equal and balance then is your decision essentially irrelevant because it doesn't matter what you pick. If Option A and Option B matter, but only in regards your opponents choices, it's again irrelevant unless you have some social gaming aspect where you're outguessing your opponent.

Breaking down problems like you're doing to an abstract level is really useful approach and tool for a designer to evaluate a system at its base level, but damn can it take the fun out of games :D. I noticed personally I started having a lot less fun with games in my personal time the more time I spent in the Systems design space.

Could you go into this deeper for me. I am mostly just interested and very curious. Although I like to pitch my idea which can sometimes get picked up to my delight and I have done some small scale mods or helped pitch ideas for large mods... all of which I am proud to have contributed I have never created anything from scratch or been through a design process working through many iterations where you must continue to give up bad formulas as you concoct a better version. I always just get it right the first time or learn something which upturns my original idea or adjust the parameters more clearly to match the expectations to the investment. In one case I had competition and throughout the competition found I needed to abandon my ideas on a topic because although they might have long term merit in the short term they were far less developed.

On the other hand, it sounds like Riot takes and tries a lot of variety of ideas before closing in on what works.

My question is, what part of the design space and process do you feel is the most detrimental to your love, joy, fun, etc for the game? Is it the knowledge or the process? Does something leave a bad taste in your mouth? Do you find that you wanted X to be Q but the team felt Y fit better, etc? Honestly, I could have never produced Morde. As described by Riot, he is a walking stat check box. The fact that he can even cope pays a lot of respect to his passive and his ultimate, because the rest of his kit is boring and/or gutted. If you look at Doom, Doom has a speed buff and a mini-stun and a jungle ability farm mini game... all of which make him a more healthy avatar. In my mind when you make a champion you produce a list of skills and the team says ok lets tweak the numbers, geometry and the behaviors to fit the game. How much more complicated is it than that? Why is it so hard to stick to your original concept? None of these questions are rhetorical, but probably depend on each design. Feel free to share specific experiences.

I am asking because I imagine the art following the design. Is it the other way around? Do the designers get to have jam sessions with the artists? I personally would love to develop ideas and let people pick and choose from them, but I think I would also want to have pet projects that I get to work on that maybe don't fit a niche but instead fulfill a unclaimed creative space.

Getting back to the game play and how design impacts game play, because I probably haven't come close to what is disconnecting your pleasure. Please share your train of thought on how design process of breaking down problems and 'Systems' design space affects your joy for the game. I will probably never really understand without being a substantial part of the process, but I would still like you to try.

I could say more about the design process and my appreciation of the consistent attempts to move the game forward without leaving many of the pieces far behind. I could also comment on my speculations about your answers, but I would really like to hear more from you about this, because it's paradoxical curse to improve something and find less love for it. The basic hope would be that your efforts would impact the game play value for everyone and that you would be one of the benefactors.

If other Rioters want to share their own experience on this, I would be happy to hear their answers as well as Feral Pony's.

As a technical designer I can tell you that certain processes can make me exhausted and I tend to stop wanting to look at that after exhaustion hits. Is it more complicated than that?

TLDR: Please tell us about an abstract discussion of the game and how it sucks up fun like Thresh absorbs up souls.

PS. I am intrigued. In my dreams I like to think of video game design as a happy place where everything goes in the right direction with the right amount of abstract knowledge and some serious mental elbow grease.

Earl EulrichDec 17, 20152 votes

I´m just going to quote myself again...as this is sth important that feels like you´re not even aware of it:

"well, back when i started playing lol there had been lots of choices for most Champions regarding their itemization and playstyle - many champs worked on ap and ad and played really different. Even when it had been "only" ad there still often had been the choice between ad-caster, crit, on-hit (gosh, i miss madreds) and somewhat bruiser-builds...and once there even had been a zeke´s to make ad-supports somewhat viable.

but over the course of the recent years you seem to take away much of that once marvelous variety and streamline every champ in very defined experiences, especially with the most recent changes to ad-items. And you´re really driving me away from the game more and more with that."

Essentially if a choice between Option A and Option B is at all optimal is it essentially irrelevant because you just pick the more optimal one.

and that´s why there have to be tradeoffs. For the last seasons i could trade powerspikes/reliability/survivability for scaling/dmg...now about every ad-build is forced into the scaling pattern, as everything else (that already had been a slightly less optimal choice assuming the team played optimally around their adc (so well, that doesnßt happen in soloQ)) got nerfed, while crit got spread around like an agressive infection...so basically currently there´s not much intellectual satisfaction to be had in this game. You choose a champ and you´re on a very clear path. I know, that may be better for new players/"casual" players - but it´s not really the game i want to play anymore.

Lovely PantsDec 17, 20151 votes

This is an interesting facet of the discussion.

Personally, I don't feel as though there are fewer options for building champions than we have had in the past. Strategically, I think there are more real or at least close options now, but there are a lot more environmental factors that rip away this feeling of choice. Here is my view on what is happening:

-Off-builds are never the primary concern for balance decisions. -Players very rapidly end up playing a "solved game" more than they did in the past.

These two forces work together to make learning and playing off-builds less satisfying.

First, the player operates now with the understanding that their off-build has a limited frame of time where it can create a slightly different style of play and still be effective. It's less rewarding in the long-term to become attached to an off-build, and when another effective style crops up because of shifts around the main line of balance for a champion, it may feel drastically different to play.

Second, peer pressure due to more players understanding a "correct" way to play the game stifles experimentation and creativity. It makes the very practice of picking an off-build stifling to learn unless it comes to be known as a competitively viable alternative.

I don't see this as having anything to do with "casual" vs. "deep" players. The bulk of professional play, for example, is comprised of players who thrive around the solved game rather than having much desire for experimentation. It's kind of an entirely different category of enjoyment created by the player being able to surpass expectations of the game. I don't think there's a long-term good way to support the kind of experience these players are looking for, really.

Earl EulrichDec 17, 20151 votes

It's kind of an entirely different category of enjoyment created by the player being able to surpass expectations of the game.

I think the point is making educated choices based on a deeper understanding of the game...not necessarily surpassing expectations, but rather using the mechanics to the limits. but as there are less and less choices to be made the game just becomes shallow and boring. (also notice that pro-play is a whole other game than "normal" lol, they play a "solved" game because they can relay on their teammates doing what they expect of them and so they seldom have to react to the game taking unexpected turns, proplay is neither "casual" nor anything else that relates to common player experience - alas, most proplayers severly lack knowledge about the game as a whole as they have to focus very much on their position to stay competitive).

First, the player operates now with the understanding that their off-build has a limited frame of time where it can create a slightly different style of play and still be effective.

not sure in which terms you´re speaking...but this is not about learning a certain build, but rather about learning all sorts of builds - it´s about adapting in the game, after Cahmpions are selected...adapting to your comp, to their comp, to how the game progresses. All this has been possible to various degrees in the past seasons - but now decreased to an alarming low...ultimatly it´s about mastery of the game being rewarded (to use Riots design-goal terms)

Second, peer pressure due to more players understanding a "correct" way to play the game stifles experimentation and creativity.

this is nothing new (ok, in S1&2 it hadn´t been there that much) - at least since S3 when competitive had been established players always would tell you you´re doing it wrong, even if you´re Solocarrying the damn game. To change this moe people would have to understand that pro-play and "normal" lol are very different things, and what works within a set of 5players that are able to play as a unit does not necessarily work out well in an environment where 5individual players make up as they go. This really shouldm´t impact anyone trying to understand the game a little better though.

Lovely PantsDec 17, 20151 votes

Hm, maybe if you would go a little deeper in explaining how you think item choice doesn't lend itself to adaptability any more compared to what we've had before?

From what I recall of the past, there were only at best a couple of fringe cases where some of the items you mention really represented actual choice in playstyle, rather than just performing badly in all aspects of a champion if you didn't choose the right one. Madreds, which you mention, was never actually all that useful unless you had a kit that lent itself specifically to on-hit effects. Really, this was historically the case for most of the old on-hit effect items. Choosing them seldom amounted to actual adaption in game. It was just the particular dps build that worked for that champion. The basic differentiation of choice seemed to be the same between getting slightly burstier items and items which favored extended combat.

As for things like choosing a more bruiser-like experience, I don't see why there's anything really stopping adcs from choosing a mix of defensive and offensive items currently that decently suit them more than before. Can you elaborate on what has changed?

Earl EulrichDec 17, 20151 votes

i´ll just quote an example i used in a recent discussion about that topic:

then let me do an example for Sivir:

early on i could go ~3paths, heavily affecting my playstyle:

IE->PD/SHIV->LW/BT->whatever + as-boots - meaning most of the dmg comes from rightclicking, ("proper" adc-build/play)

ER->Ghostblade->LW->depending on the game either defense or Trinity+maybe even IE + cdr-boots ->most of the dmg, especially midgame comes from spells, lategame can be allright but is more risky but early-mid-dmg is higher and more reliable (AD-Caster-playstyle)

BT->LW->SV/Randuins + boots(defensive or offensive, depending) -> consistent dmg+sustain, but not as high, best laning+ strong midgame, but not enough dmg to "carry" lategame (Bruiser-playstyle, go in hard, soak some cds, fall back to sustain and hopefully clean up)

So if i see they lack engage/we ended up with a good pokecomp or just a mid-game focused comp I´ll be best off with an AD-Caster-build, if I see that i´m the only lane doing well, but at least mid and jungle farm up relativly well i go for the BT-bruiser build to snowball lane, carry midgame and later on when our mid hopefully catched up through farming i´ll get all the focus from the opponents and can sustain through it with a bruisery-build while the mid can now carry. Or if I see that top and jungle play tanks, mid isnßt going well i just use a "classic" build, as someone has to do tons of dmg if we are to win this game.

That had been real choice. Now i can rush ER or IE - but both only spike if i get at least 1more item, and both end up with the same crit-AA-lategame-scaling-build. There´s no adaption to be made. And with the nerfs to BT and LW the bruiser-build got a lot less viable (albeit the hextrinker/youmus changes were fairly good here) - while the ER/LW changes combined totally killed AD-Casters (they don´t want friggin´crit, they want ad and arp...and some reliable mana and cdr on top of that).

and on madreds: it had been absolutly great on AP-Bruiser as "the" dps-item (they couldn´t afford that much itemslots for offense) - madreds/voidstaff nauti was a heck of a lot of fun (so unexpectedly devastating) - and it achieved all that without being surpressive to anyone, unlike botrk that replaced it. It had been a clear-cut item with benefits and tradoffs -adc´s only took it if they faced a 3warmogs cho´gath or the likes, but hten it really had an impact, botrk on the other hand had been all over the place, offering everything at once...and therefor now is mostly taken for a fast 1v1-spike, not to actually deal with tanks. again not much of a choice, the imbediment of what´s wrong with itemization currently.

ItemsGuyDec 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think they do offer some level of playstyle and expression differences between builds, though it's not super crazy, but I think does actually can and does have an impact on players. While not redefining the champion I feel the difference between a Champion like Ezreal poking you with Q's with deathfire versus one bursting you with Q -> E -> Attack + Thunderlords is a meaningful distinction and does allow players a level of playstyle and expression.

You're are hitting on a very high level philosophical level of decision making and choices in games which is really interesting. Essentially if remove the elements of playstyle and choice/intellectual satisfaction you're left in an interesting spot. Essentially if a choice between Option A and Option B is at all optimal is it essentially irrelevant because you just pick the more optimal one. Alternatively if Option A and Option B are truly equal and balance then is your decision essentially irrelevant because it doesn't matter what you pick. If Option A and Option B matter, but only in regards your opponents choices, it's again irrelevant unless you have some social gaming aspect where you're outguessing your opponent.

Breaking down problems like you're doing to an abstract level is really useful approach and tool for a designer to evaluate a system at its base level, but damn can it take the fun out of games :D. I noticed personally I started having a lot less fun with games in my personal time the more time I spent in the Systems design space.

I wouldn't say that the new Keystone Masteries are stat-sticks in any sense (especially compared to Runes and previous Masteries iterations), but unfortunately, they do really seem like a less interesting and fairly redundant version of the items system. As a crit-based Marksman, for example, I can at least have the choice between Phantom Dancer and Shiv (which while they ultimately give similar stats, their passive components lend themselves to divergent forms of play that are not useful in every situation, or used by every Marksman in the same way--ie. splitpush and teamfight vs. duel and kite).

Compare to Keystone Masteries, where if I'm a Marksman who likes crit more than attackspeed or poking/bursting with abilities, I don't really see a reason to get any Keystone that isn't the crit one, and I'd be out of my mind if I got a Keystone in any of the other trees. That's 9 potential interesting decisions boiled down to one arbitrary check-mark because at least perceptually, there is always a Best Option. After all, why get anything aside from the on-hit Keystone on the champion who can break the attackspeed cap, or the crit Keystone on the champion who can double their own crit chance? Even with the Ezreal example, it's a choice between using his spammable abilities to hit somebody with a 4 second DoT every 4 seconds, or using his spammable abilities to put a small nuke on them and then not have that Keystone for your next 4 Qs. If there is a small choice, it's drowned out by the first one seeming like it synergizes with Ezreal's natural kit and playstyle a lot better.

Dawngate, I feel, had a more flexible and choice-driven system with their Roles, which were more about setting up a character's path of progression (ie. how they earn gold) rather than just contributing to it in the same way every game. While it still has its own problems (characters with low kill potential wouldn't want to go for the Role that only benefits them off of kills), I don't think it would be impossible for a similar system to function in League, and provide a method of pre-game customization that enables other systems rather than overlapping with them.

ItemsGuyDec 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think they do offer some level of playstyle and expression differences between builds, though it's not super crazy, but I think does actually can and does have an impact on players. While not redefining the champion I feel the difference between a Champion like Ezreal poking you with Q's with deathfire versus one bursting you with Q -> E -> Attack + Thunderlords is a meaningful distinction and does allow players a level of playstyle and expression.

You're are hitting on a very high level philosophical level of decision making and choices in games which is really interesting. Essentially if remove the elements of playstyle and choice/intellectual satisfaction you're left in an interesting spot. Essentially if a choice between Option A and Option B is at all optimal is it essentially irrelevant because you just pick the more optimal one. Alternatively if Option A and Option B are truly equal and balance then is your decision essentially irrelevant because it doesn't matter what you pick. If Option A and Option B matter, but only in regards your opponents choices, it's again irrelevant unless you have some social gaming aspect where you're outguessing your opponent.

Breaking down problems like you're doing to an abstract level is really useful approach and tool for a designer to evaluate a system at its base level, but damn can it take the fun out of games :D. I noticed personally I started having a lot less fun with games in my personal time the more time I spent in the Systems design space.

Also, this isn't the first time I've heard about working in System design or similar fields "ruining" games for people via analysis--breaking down that stuff has always been the most fun for me, and I often find myself having the most fun figuring out what various systems' intents are and how they could be better-incorporated or what sort of effects they'd have on the familiar systems of other genres (Xenoblade Chronicles X has a lot of goodies, such as the conversational "Soul Voice" combat system and various task-forces that have a function in the in-game world; Fire Emblem: Awakening's buddy system also has a lot of potential conceptually but could be executed in a less stat-y way).

If that's the case, what about working in Systems is fun for you? Is it just more rewarding when you're actually working on solving problems, rather than playing a game and thinking about the "would've"s, "could've"s, and "should've"s?

Champion SkinDec 17, 20152 votes

While not redefining the champion I feel the difference between a Champion like Ezreal poking you with Q's with deathfire versus one bursting you with Q -> E -> Attack + Thunderlords is a meaningful distinction and does allow players a level of playstyle and expression.

Wait... doesn't Deathfire only proc on ability damage... and Ezeral Q as an on-hit ability is counted as an auto attack?

kunkudunkDec 19, 20152 votes

I notice you mention poking with ezreal's q and deathfire touch. The thing is that mastery doesn't work on ezreal's q or at least it hasn't when I tested it. I made a thread once but the few response said that it wasn't supposed to since his q is kinda like an auto attack with the on hit affects. Is it supposed to work with the mastery or no?

GaryFreakinnnOakDec 16, 20152 votes

Can you comment on the tank shredding items and how strong the balance team would like them to be? It feels like BORK was nerfed for its synergy with devourer (which is more of a devourer issue than a bork one) and last whisper was heavily nerfed against characters with high base stats. Ever since 5.16 it has felt almost impossible to cut through the juggernauts if you weren't unnaturally fed and the preseason changes have made it feel even worse to auto a tank as an ADC.

The balance cycle used to roughly flow Assassin > ADC > Bruiser/Tank/Juggernaut, but raw damage of a lot of these tanks/juggs make it seem like they are assassins in their own right. The change to last whisper has made it so the likes of Udyr and Shyvanna can almost entirely rely on their base armor values and still be able to towerdive you with no minions as a well farmed (or even fed) adc with full health. This isn't an issue on its own, but it feels like mistakes made by bruisers and juggernauts are so much harder to punish than mistakes made by any other class of champion.

Son JarvanDec 16, 20152 votes

In 5.24 Brand and Rammus were nerfed. Brand got a lovetap, citing a consideration for an underlying system (Deathfire Touch) also being nerfed. Rammus got nerfed harder directly, three of his masteries (including a keystone) were nerfed, and a core item of his was nerfed. Why was consideration for system nerfs given to Brand but not Rammus?

PyroDec 17, 20152 votes

ITEMSSS

Seriously though, what's your opinion on the current item system in a more general manner? I've already asked Ghostcrawler about the phenomenon of items with identical recipes (Phage/Jaurim, Dirk/Warhammer, Shiv/Firecannon, Exec/Giantslayer, also LW upgrades). What would be your opinion on the matter?

Also, when are we finally taking on Ohmwrecker and Zz'Rot Portal?

SaltyKrackaDec 17, 20152 votes

I've been wondering.

Why have you left Lux as the most dominant midlander for the last four months after you gave her a buff she obviously didn't need, and em when are you going to get around to actually doing anything about it?

JohnTheLibrarianDec 16, 20151 votes

Thoughts on Omen? :) I'd love to hear what happened with him, why he was dropped, if he might ever get picked up again. Also Any other random trivia about League would be neat :P Maybe even some spoilers for the future? :D

RiotFeralPonyDec 17, 20153 votes

Sure. The quick version is Omen is unlikely to be picked up again. I think if we revisited the concept of a spike shooting champion we would do better than his original design/concept. The project as a whole was fairly rushed and we weren't really in the process of delaying champions that needed more time. We've changed since then but he was not up to par for a champion to be released as a whole.

Design-wise there were a few interesting mechanics but there was still some less than great areas like his ult that needed to be fixed which was essentially MF ult but in a circle vs a cone, and we were way past the time his design needed to be locked down. His 3D model and readability/looks and appeal in game just simply didn't turn out that well, and we still had a lot of work on animations, visuals etc to figure out. He basically needed a lot of work and iteration to get him to a shippable spot and it seemed smarter and better to just move ahead to the next champion.

Random Trivia - Anivia Q is a very tiny version of the old Nexus crystal.

patmax17Dec 17, 20154 votes

Random Trivia - Anivia Q is a very tiny version of the old Nexus crystal.

http://cdn.cloth5.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/aniv_q.jpg mind -> blown [zombie-brand-mindblown]

ShadowParkerDec 17, 20151 votes

So, if a designer were to opt to work on Omen, would riot allow him to? Or do you think he'd have to rename the champion and go an entirely different way?

JohnTheLibrarianDec 23, 20151 votes

Cool! Thanks for the info :)

Jeddy017Dec 16, 20151 votes

Okay,no point in not asking you.Care to comment on the Non-SR maps?

RiotFeralPonyDec 16, 20152 votes

No harm in asking, but I can't really speak to them, I'm focused on patch to patch SR balance and updates.

Jeddy017Dec 16, 20151 votes

Well,can you point me in the direction of someone who CAN speak about them?Because to me,those who should be able to speak on them (aka the alternate maps team if there is one) seem to not exist.

1Ferdinand1Dec 16, 20151 votes

Sorry, english isn't my language.

What are your thoughts on a champion based on resource manipulation? Since Soraka rework in this moment there is nothing that can manipulate them, do you think is a mechanics that will never come or there are ideas floating around?

RiotFeralPonyDec 16, 20153 votes

Unlikely we'd see champions boosting other champions resource bars. Champions resource bars are a pretty core unique part of each champion and are in many ways a self contained system. This gives us a lot of advantages and allows us to adjust and balance champions individually. By allowing a champion to restore mana, energy etc we often need to balance the champion around those mechanics which can lead to a pretty unsatisfying experience all around.

Example - If we expect a champion may be getting lots of free mana, we may need to increase their costs accordingly. This will likely not do enough to compensate for the increased flow of mana AND makes the champion terrible in the absence of that mechanic, which puts everyone in a crappy spot.

SpecterVonBarenDec 16, 20151 votes

Which came first? Working on Hecarim or your name?

Do you think there's room in the game to have other focusses in a match other than teamfights and turrets? There's a bit of that in terms of things like Tryndamere split pushing or Singed proxying minions, both done in an attempt to force people to divert resources to deal with the problem. But those tactics aren't supported very much because the tactics tend to be very frustrating to deal with. Is there any chance things could be made where that is a legitimate strategy that has legitimate answers from the enemy team?

Which champion is your favorite that you did not work on?

What are your thoughts on some of the current passives in the game that are either boring or uninteractive or uninteresting? Is there hope for some sort of champion wide change to things like Fiddle's, Zyra's, Shyvana's or Talon's passive?

RiotFeralPonyDec 16, 20153 votes

My name came WAY before Hecarim, and I also didn't actually select the champion or have much influence on his aesthetics. He was a horse before I started :) When i started working on Hecarim he was already basically art locked, we had badass concept art from Paul Kwon everyone loved that looks 95% identical to how Hecarim looks today. If you search Hecarim concept art the first picture that shows up was what was given to me. The Pony connection was pure coincidence, but I think Hecarim turned out awesome.

ploki122Dec 16, 20151 votes

I’ve worked on a lot of different design teams in my 5 years here including Champions, Champion Reworks/Updates, Game Balance, Systems Design, and Game Clarity.

As someone who might have insights on a lot of the process... how can you back a claim like "Poppy's passive and ultimate were impossible to balance" (paraphrasing it, but that's what the team working on it said afaik), when there were absolutely no iterations done on it (outside of bug fixes) since she was released back in 2010 or 2011. Even in term of balance changes, I don't think she received any actual buffs or nerfs since the Season 1 patch. I hope you can understand why it feels bad to have your champion completely redone without getting the impression that you guys tried to preserve her identity and collected data beforehand. All we can run on is "they probably did X/Y/Z".

Also, please consider this when reworking Yorick/Galio. I feel like he isn't that bad right now, and a (relative) lot of people are probably enjoing him right now. It would be awesome if they didn't end up with a 40% win rate rework that had close to everybody complaining about it for 2 whole weeks on the PBE. On that note, please never release a rework to the PBE during a cycle that has a holiday in it again. You've clearly shown that you're unwilling to keepmassive changes in there for more than 2 weeks, so at least use a cycle that has 2 weeks in it (or find devs who enjoy working during holidays, but that doesn't seem reasonable).

seemingly random tangential stuff

I feel this question touches equally GhostCrawler and the whole design team; Do you feel like there could ever be an item like Aghanim's Scepter in LoL? An item that grants you a unique bonus to your kit based on your champion.

I've also had a lot of fun asking (roughly) the same generic questions to all the devs, so you're the next one on the list :

What is in your opinion the best/worst niche in LoL right now in term of design (split push, mobile mages, tank supports, poke supports, all in mid laners, AP junglers, etc.)?
Who are your favorite current rioters and ex-rioters?
What would you say is the biggest pros and cons of the current way PBE functions?
Favorite champion?
What design from another game would you like to see in LoL (even if unrealistic) and why? This can be either a complete concept (like a DotA heroes or something), or a systemic one (like Aghs or maybe an ammo system on buildings or pickups, or first-person something... anything really).
If everythign was to be turned into ice cream, what flavor would FeralPony be? What about a feral pony?

RiotFeralPonyDec 17, 20152 votes

Holy heck, lotta questions.

Poppy "Unbalanceability"

The passive probably was "balancable" but not a level where people could feel or appreciate it. In design (both in Riot and outside) we generally speaking we strive for a high satisfaction to power ration. Essentially, we want players to understand and feel the impact of the abilities they use and decisions they make. Old Poppy passive had one of the craziest low satsifaction to power ratio ability in the entire game if not the lowest. Those style of abilities, while technically "balancable" generally make us have to reduce their power to such an unsatisying level we look for other options.
Ultimate - Poppy Ultimate wasn't really "tuneable" meaning as a designer we don't have the same kind of control over it's power that something like Damage provides. It doesn't have an available "lever" for us to adjust the ability by say "10%". We can adjust the mana cost, duration, etc but at the end of the day it's still "grants you immunity to everything". Immunity isn't adjustable without essentially remaking the ability.

I don't believe that Galio and Yorick are being remade for win rate or power concerns at all, they are being remade because people simply aren't enjoying the champions regardless of their power or winrate. This doesn't mean **_all _**people aren't enjoying them, but it does mean they have substantially lower player attachment and satisfaction than we'd expect or like.

That said, we still care about the existing playerbase when we remake champions and gather feedback and bring players onsite to try out and provide feedback on the changes. We just had players testing out new Taric for example and providing feedback even though he's a ways away.

Scepter, I think wouldn't work well unless you design around it from the beginning. That style of mechanic fundamentally defines the champion, and has the cost in many cases of making them feel gimped or worthless without the item, rather than empowered with it. It's a pretty fascinating psycological problem I've been interested in for Game Design and Theory for a while now. Essentially, how and when do bonus's keep feeling like bonus's and not like penalties when you don't have the mechanic or power in question (and vice versa for penalties - when does the absence of a penalty feel like a bonus). We'd also have to change a crap-ton of champion ultimates to accomodate this item when they are probably already fine as is.

Favorite Rioters - There's a ton here but I'll narrow the list to 1 each Current Rioters: JZ (the Producer not the rapper, though he's cool too) Former Rioters: Coronach: He's a fantastic designer who I learned a ton from

PBE: Biggest Pros: We get a lot of coverage on new content before ship, this has been super useful in catching bugs and doing last minute catches and adjustments. Biggest Cons: It's a very small community that can be pretty echo chamber-y, and feedback on balance is generally not great.

Stuff from other Games?: I always have loved Bullet Hell games. I'd love to see a Moba take on it through a champion or a mechanic.

Fav Champion: Varies week to week but I've always loved Udyr, Heimer, and Bard.

Ice Cream Flavor?: Probably something similar to Rocky Road. Lots of good stuff with a little bit of chaos.

ShadowParkerDec 17, 20151 votes

Wait, Galio is getting remade for sure? :/ If you could confirm that or not that would be great. Because, I actually like everything that makes up Galio, and I feel like there'd be a huge community outcry such as with Morde and Cass.

RiotFeralPonyDec 17, 20151 votes

Not in progress or anything as far as I'm aware, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was selected for an update.

AbracadabaDec 17, 20151 votes

yo some new heimerdinger skins would be so nice! please :D

ShadowParkerDec 17, 20151 votes

Youre asking a live balance person, for a skin? Nooooo.

randomyDec 17, 20151 votes

How has the Rift Herald been received in the wider player base? I’m working my way up through mid-Bronze and I’ve only seen it attempted twice in ten games (one of which was at 19:45 just to see if we could get it). Are players valuing it as much as you expected, and if not, do you expect the changes on PBE to help much?

RiotFeralPonyDec 17, 20152 votes

% of players taking Rift Herald is relatively low but higher than we expected tbh. We feel there are a few reasons for this.

First and foremost, it's new and a bit out of the way. We saw this with jungling as well when we added the Gromp (formerly Wraith) camp near Blue buff. Junglers at all elos often just walked by it because they were so used to the way things were and it wasn't part of their pattern. We saw this with Scuttlecrab, Trinkets, literally every new system that changes core patterns or decision making has a substantial amount of time before it's adopted by players at large. This will increase over time, and we have seen a slow but steady increase in % of players who attempt and take Rift Herald over the last few patches.

Secondly, the risk vs reward of the objective feels a bit off atm. We're reducing the risk again next patch by weakening his attacks a bit especially as he scales around the 15-20 mark where he feels substantially more threatening than Dragon. Alternatively we could look at further increasing the reward, but we wanted to try this approach first.

randomyDec 18, 20151 votes

Thanks for the answer. Further question, in a similar vein - how are you guys finding Cull? item 1083 I really like it, I think it's a great replacement for Avarice Blade, but the opinions I've seen on it (99% reddit) are overwhelmingly negative. Is this the sort of situation you let settle over time, or do you give it a tiny buff to turn players' thinking on the item? I know that buffs/fixes that aren't really meaningful have still greatly shifted the community's perception of a champion/item's strength before.