Preseason Open Forum [day 2]

RiotPWYFF·11/11/2015, 7:09:42 PM·1 votes·21,688 views
Patch 5.22 notes

You've survived the patch notes.

You've read the dev blogs.

You've played a few games in the preseason! And you didn't forget your masteries.

We're going to be chilling in the dev corner this week to talk about any of the preseason changes coming in the patch. Hopefully by tomorrow you'll also have a few games under your belt.

Also: you're not here to pose opinions as questions.

98 Comments

RiotFearless11/11/2015, 7:13:41 PM6 votes

First?

Ergono11/11/2015, 7:14:46 PM6 votes

Runic Armor Mastery Clarification PLEASE!!!

This mastery just doesn't seem to be working specifically within certain shields that are % based. Malphite Mordekaiser

Is there a bug? Did you guys never intend to work with shield passives or is there an esoteric definition of shield?

Mordekaiser's passive shield doesn't show any form of % interaction whatsoever.

Also Bandit seems to be bugging out based on it not proc'ing off melee champion spells. Is this a bug or a last minute change that was not caught in the tool tip.

Dantilq11/11/2015, 10:40:27 PM6 votes

I want to talk about the changes to minions; they scare me. What worries me is that the subtle and interesting mini game of wave control will be damaged or worst case destroyed.

It's a fascinating and subtle thing to control the minion waves, and when done successful you can set up freezes to deny CS to enemy, or make large waves that damage side lanes as you do objectives. What worries me is that the changes to minions, make them auto push which makes setting up pushes and doing freezes much harder to control.

What is the intent behind the changes, and what is your thoughts about wave manipulation and the new system?

Zullar11/11/2015, 7:51:45 PM5 votes

I think the starting item changes are interesting.

I think the hidden minion power is a bad idea. It will make minion wave control more confusing. If you have an advantage I believe the power should be in the heroes, not some obscure minion buff.

I also do not like the hidden mechanics in masteries like Deathfire Touch. I did some testing to see how it works. Seems it applies 3sec off Teemo Q, doesn't work at all with Teemo E or R. Applies 5.5sec with Brand passive. Why does the Brand passive DOT proc it differently than Teemo Shroom. It seems very inconsistent and there is nothing in the description to explain this behavior (I'm not sure if this is bugged or intentional).

I like mastery tradeoff choices like the Opressor vs. Bounty hunter and Vampirism vs. Natural Talent, but I feel like many mastery choices seem like non-choices. 7% armor pen or 7% magic pen... I mean that's not a choice. If you are AP you take magic pen, AD then you take armor pen... very boring. Instead I'd propose something like 3% damage OR 8% bonus pen might be more interesting (i.e. are you trying to blow up squshies & wave clear, or alternatively hurt tanks).

Along the same lines I feel there needs to be an alternative Ferocity AP capstone for the Deathfire Touch DOT. A comparable flat damage buff (or similar) might be an interesting alternative depending if you are trying to burst targets down & wave clear (in which case you'd take a flat damage buff), or if you are going to poke and wear people down (in which case you'd take Deathfire Touch). But if you are AP there is no Ferocity capstone alternative to Deathfire Touch... no choice whatsoever.

Boosted Baller11/11/2015, 7:19:42 PM4 votes

I've got a rather specific question regarding the sorcery mastery in the ferocity tree regarding true damage. Does it give me %2 increased dunk power on Darius?

Irelia Bot11/12/2015, 1:36:27 AM3 votes

Still would like info on wit's end and why it lost the 42 on hit damage for 40 #hitchhikersguidetothegalaxy. I have tried contacting several of rioters about this and not a single one has said a word about this item which has been all but forgotten since season 2.

A Naughty Kitten11/11/2015, 11:38:38 PM3 votes

It feels like this Preseason made everything be super snowbally and wants games to end between 25 and 35 minutes. Although serious question: Why decide to change bounty gold to become global gold rather than keeping it being the gold boost for killer+allies that assist?

3v3 Bailey Jay11/11/2015, 8:03:32 PM2 votes

"Over the next twelve hours or so we'll start doling out rewards, and you should see your shiny new borders, icons, as well as the new skins (if you earned them) soon."

Why Lie to us?

Swizzle11/11/2015, 7:14:44 PM2 votes

The biggest feedback I've heard was "Graves ammo looks like sushi"

Selegun11/11/2015, 7:31:29 PM2 votes

I've seen a few questions about how Runic Armor mastery isnt working for Mordekaiser's passive and was wondering about this myself. Is this mastery supposed to increase the overall size of his shield or just the amount generated from spell cast damage?

Mansana11/11/2015, 7:42:28 PM2 votes

So going through the masteries. I saw that Runic Armor "gives 8% bonus shields and healing on you (includes lifesteal and health regen)". Is spell vamp also included even though it's not mentioned or...?

Maikal11/11/2015, 7:45:14 PM2 votes
  1. Why wasn't Rift Herald made stationary like Baron to make coordinating who's attacking the eye/who's tanking easier? Was it intended to be hard to coordinate?

  2. Context on Blade of the Ruined King nerfed? Will some champions who used this as their core item be compensated?

  3. Why does Grave's Q deal more damage than his ult?

  4. Why are jungle item prices inconsistent?

  5. Context on Runeglaive nerfs?

  6. Why doesn't Rift Herald give 5 devourer stacks?

You said no posing opinions as questions so I'll just state my opinion that Devourer is slower to stack because of the cost increase (I've been getting it around 9 - 12 min) and that we should only be weighing the value of the buff of the objective - not stacks vs no stacks. You'd probably still not get sated faster than in patch 5.21 even if you were able to take 2 - 3 epic monsters just because of the price increase.

Illâoi Evê Siôn11/11/2015, 7:58:43 PM2 votes

All of Corki's halved abilities apply 2 procs of Spellthief's Edge. Intentional?

lightdragoon8811/11/2015, 8:57:25 PM2 votes

Yasuo and Tryndamere are everywhere today.

rampaging poet11/11/2015, 9:16:18 PM2 votes

I've noticed a few undocumented changes to Ashe's Q and Runaan's Hurricane. I've already posted a bug report about it here but I'd like some clarification to see if these were intentional.

First, Ashe is able to use Ranger's Focus on structures again. Previously she gained the attack speed boost but not the bonus damage because she was pushing turrets too quickly with it. She can't gain Focus stacks by shooting turrets, but shooting other units and then popping Q lets her deal extra damage again.

Second, Ashe no longers gains stacks of Focus from Runaan's Hurricane secondary bolts. Gaining stacks was previously and on-hit effect, but it seems to have been changed to an on-attack effect.

There's also a probable bug where her Runaan's bolts deal less damage instead of more damage when Q is up.

Which of these are intentional changes, and which are bugs?

warpenguin55511/11/2015, 11:32:05 PM2 votes

AP Mages feel awful to play right now. Any buffs incoming for them?

ArkyaThorn11/12/2015, 2:26:53 AM2 votes

From everything that I have read, the things that I don't like the most are probably the minion updates and the mastery page.

For one, I feel as though the minion updates are going to make it to where a losing team has no way of ever changing the game. I know the masteries and such are supposed to help, but when everyone is spread thin trying to stop minions, it makes it harder for teams to focus on team battles. I hope that the minion update doesn't go through simply because it will make losing less enjoyable. I mean, how will anyone be able to turn the tides last minute and have a come back? I understand that it is supposed to be something to make the game more interesting, but all I can see to it are downsides for losing teams. The winning team will absolutely love it, but who wants to play a game they can never win? It especially makes it harder for those champions and players who are much better late game.

Secondly, the mastery pages. . . When I read them, I said, "Looks like League pulled a World of Warcraft." Simply put, looking over the mastery pages and reading what they do makes it too easy to decide what to pick. You've overly simplified them. The old ones were actually fun to look through, trying to pick things that would go well for a whole range of champions instead of specializing in two or three. I understand that maybe it was meant to help people pick what they wanted, but what fun is that? There is no need to test anything or try something new. It's too easy. Maybe the old mastery pages could have been updated a little with wording, but not have half of the points removed and have people only able to go in one side of the branch or the other.

And lastly, because I know it is on a lot of people's minds from what I have been reading over the hours, I feel that League has now downplayed APCs and tanks by boosting ADCs. Not only has a lot of ability power and mana been taken from items, but we have even lost two summoner spells that gave back mana when we needed it. I used summoner 13 in almost every one of my games. As a mostly APC player, I needed it for when I played Ziggs or Syndra and especially as Sona. All of my friends also used it. And it was taken from the game because there was a belief that no one used it. Already that puts a dent in what an APC can do, as they will be constantly recalling to restore mana, which will allow the enemy to take a turret. Now that the mastery pages have been completely changed, there is hardly any room for anyone to play a tank or APC.

I feel that League, though the intentions were good, has tipped a precious balance in champions. I have seen more comments about people either quitting or others abandoning APCs and tanks just because the game now favors ADCs. ADCs are easier to build than APCs and now that the time to play games has been cut in half, mages and tanks will have no room to shine as ADCs take the spotlight. I hope that the minion update doesn't go through, just as I hope that some of these issues will be fixed.

ModAcademy Kayn11/12/2015, 2:47:35 AM2 votes

Does a Soraka/Anivia/Karthus spell "Crit" proc BloodThirsty Warlord? (Keystone mastery that heals from crits)

Stay7057311/12/2015, 4:52:07 PM2 votes

I'm just curious now

What the heck is going on with Mordekaiser ?

What I don't understand is:

You made him a Juggernaut, the only real AP oriented one of the lot. But then you made him into an ADC/wanted him to play in an ADC role. His supposed primary item in bot is: item 3044 , but the only things it builds into are: item 3078 ,item 3071 , and item 3184 . I mean, Entropy might not be bad, but the others aren't great now, all things considerd, and it's not available in the rift.

What I'm getting at is: What are Riot's plans with Mordekaiser given the new itemization changes and the ADC changes. I feel the changes with Tri-force seem odd, as a majority of champs who bought didn't actually have a wasted AP stat/had some form of ap scaling that gave them a benefit. (Jax ,Hecarim ,Irelia ,Gangplank ,Poppy , Nasus ,Vi , and to a lesser extent (only because the itemization for these champs are much more varied, and thus have better access to items) Lucian ,Corki , Ezreal , KogMaw .

I would argue that the CDR is interesting, but not really necessary for most champs who bought Tri, as most were top lane tanks who bought cdr oriented tank items like item 3065 and item 3110 /item 3025 . Not to say they may not, but the CDR usually got covered in one way or another without triforce.

If the idea is to return Mordekaiser to his AP roots, wouldn't that mean you'd essentially need to buff his e output to put him back into dueling par?

I'm not sure where Riot is going with Morde right now, does anyone have anything to say/ideas?

Howldoom11/11/2015, 8:52:00 PM2 votes

Take Yasuo into the Rift with 18 points in Ferocity, picking up the Warlord's Bloodlust keystone mastery, and have him farm enough gold to purchase item 3087 and item 1018.

Yasuo can now get 100% Critical Strike Chance, 15% effective Lifesteal, and a four-second, 20% increase to Attack Speed. For only 3300g. On top of whatever item he completes item 1018 into. And the stats already provided by item 3087. Plus boots and three other items.

Deep Terror Nami11/11/2015, 7:54:48 PM1 votes

Played a couple vs. AI matches to check out the Marksmen; really love zipping around the map with Valor (I even tried to hit my 'Mount up' hotkey from HotS at one point lol).

Pwyff, who is your favorite updated marksman?

Jack º11/11/2015, 7:17:53 PM1 votes

That one jungling item... the one that is 150% mana regin, well it also works for energy, intended?

Jack º11/11/2015, 7:13:44 PM1 votes

Why are we just exploding with changes? might be better to take it slow, right now, its confusion, then its going to be war to riot about op and nerfed things. I fear riot is going to get lots of riots on the changes...

you're not here to pose opinions as questions.

:l oh yea... um just read the first sentence XD

ThiloughNA11/12/2015, 7:59:59 PM1 votes

Last season I mained Teemo jungle, and it was really really fun. I've tried several things yesterday, and my poor Teemo jungle is gutted :< The disappearance of Trailblazer and the Masteries changes really hurt. I've read things like

Massive boosts to mana regen and the health drain on monsters make it less specialized than Machete, increasing the number of would-be adventurers who can hold their own the jungle.

Are you happy with the jungle experience for off-meta junglers?

Merciless Mercy11/11/2015, 7:21:23 PM1 votes

Why is phantom dancer disabled

BlondHeadphones11/12/2015, 7:24:18 PM1 votes

I'm not gonna go crazy rewriting everything so long story short Masteries feel horrible, been playing since it came out on pbe, Defense tree feels too weak early game, ap scalings on keystones feel very weak, ap champs feel awkward with not much support in masteries and they are continually being replaced by ad champs. Here's the detailed post I made a few days ago before the 5.22 patch went live