So, about those SKT skins... 2017 Edition

RiotRiot SuperCakes·Jun 23, 2017·1 votes·104,970 views

Hello players who love Skins, players who love SKT and, in this particular case, players who love SKT Skins!

When we first shipped the SKT Skins to PBE, we heard some concerns over their pricing. More specifically, we have a “Guide to Skin Price Tiers” on our player support page that promises that 1350RP skins would have new sounds, and some of these SKT skins don’t.

First, I want to apologize that we’ve not updated this guide in so long. When we originally wrote it four years ago, our philosophy on pricing skins was different (not dramatically, but still). When we change our thinking, this also means we owe you an explanation, and we failed to do this.

In the case of these SKT skins, all of our normal playbooks were thrown out. We didn’t look at them as an individual set of features, but rather a holistic experience. We wanted to create World Championship skins that are highly commemorative and, because they are rev-shared, give you an opportunity to honor SKT in a really meaningful way.

We don’t charge you for “our effort.” There is no evil overlord tracking our hours and converting that into RP. But, there is a level of value and quality that we strive for when creating content and once we hit it, we price accordingly. In the case of the 2016 SKT World Championship Skins, we believe they are priced fairly for what they are: a high quality execution across a number of dimensions, even if those dimensions don’t 1:1 match our checklist.

But we also know we made a commitment, so we’re going to live up to it. We’re still planning to release these skins at 1350RP in Patch 7.13, but we will release an update to them soon after that adds in sounds and checks those boxes. Honestly speaking, we’re not sure if the skins are necessarily better for it. That’s why they weren’t part of their original design. But we also don’t feel that we’re holding up our end of the bargain otherwise.

This conversation also gives us an opportunity to revamp our policies to match how we currently approach our work. We owe you an updated explanation that really gets into why we make the things we make. We’ll probably also update or retire that article once we can.

We’re really excited to launch these 2016 SKT Championship Skins, and thank you for all of your feedback to help make them the best they can be.

xoxo SuperCakes

115 Comments

SpideraxeJun 23, 201728 votes

So we are to see an updated skin pricing list eventually? Are we to see an explanation for why we have some inconsistent releases like how some modern 975 skins have 1350 quality stuff. Also how do you guys feel about SKT being the largest skin line in League

OrigamiPaperJun 23, 20179 votes

Also how do you guys feel about SKT being the largest skin line in League

Champions getting SKT skins, at this point, is more up to SKT's decision rather than Riot's XD

GayDCarryJun 23, 20173 votes

Not even 975 skins being worth 1350, I think it's more 1820s that should be 975 imo.

Feeding JunglerJul 1, 20173 votes

logged in to downvote... greedy as fuck, never going to happen esp. considering the skins are revenue-shared with skt

PrinceBedazzledJun 23, 201728 votes

This is just the way i see it and think it should be.. 520- Outdated tier, sometimes even includes recolors that would just be chromas now a days. Mostly just model with a few exceptions. 750- Completely new model, sometimes has quality of life weapon/particle changes. 975- New particles, sometimes a few recolors. Some new sounds, new recall. 1350- All new particles, NO recolors, all new sounds, VO processing when appropriate, recall 1820- New particles, sounds, jokes, voice over, recall, and otherall themetic. 3250- Everything an 1820 has, plus a very above and beyond unique niche. I think a whole overhaul where skins are repriced correctly and what is worth what amount is made CRYSTAL CLEAR. These skins at the moment are 975 tier, period. No beating around the bush about it.

Project KrJun 23, 20173 votes

This, This dude/dudette has a clear understanding of how the skins were originally priced.

Now it seems that skins that would have been classified as 975 are being seen a 1350+

AsdeftJun 23, 20176 votes

1820 should just say- New VO, new particles,_ new animations_, new recall, and new sound effects.

I think Dragon Sorceress Zyra and Arcade Corki are golden standard for a 1350 skin. 1350 skins should practically be legendary with just the absence of VO and less or no new animations. I am glad they are adding some sounds to these skins to fit the tiers, but I would have been just as happy with them being dropped to 975. They do not need to be 1350 just because they are being rev-shared.

Tyrant BelialJun 23, 20172 votes

Thing is, there are some legendary skins that don't have no animations, like Demonblade Tryndamere, as old as it is.

offmeta midlanerJun 23, 20172 votes

Think about Gentleman Cho as well, this one is just new model + voice, period

Very Cash MoneyJun 23, 20173 votes

At the same time people don't want to speculate in when their skin is getting classified as "garbage" and deranked.

If riot meets the conditions above and constantly improve skins as their tech allow it while keeping them the same pricerange I think its fair they for the most part don't change the price of the old skins as their tier was just and fair at launch.
In this situation the price represents the skins quality at launch, as in the skins relative quality vs the maximal quality aviable.

However! If riot starts judging the quality of new skins by comparing them with old ones we have a massive problem, and that is what I fear they might do. If riot starts to decide these SKT skins are 1350 because their effects look cooler than their old 975/1350 skins then we are very fucked. At that point price reduction should happen often because the price no longer reflects the skins quality at the time but reflects the skins raw quality along all times. And really I doubt riot is interested in decreasing half their legendary skins to 750/975

TormentulaJun 23, 201723 votes

Will these be put back up for sale after the update?

Just because the skins are not even finished, I may hold off on purchasing any of them until they get updated with new sounds (incase the sounds actually sound worse to me than the base skins and make me not care much for them). I would hate to have to wait a whole year for another esport sale only for them to be updated in a couple months and be unpurchasable at that time.

Some suggestions: Give an audience cheer during jhin's curtain call similar to 2015's recalls, and maybe make syndra sound more "metal" with her spheres as if they're trophies or something.

I still think the splash arts kill the skins for me. I factor in what the skins look like in their art and loading screen, its honestly part of the reason I even bought skins I hated in-game because their art captured their character so perfect (I bought prestigious LB for the new art alone). I feel the new SKT skins really lacked in the splash art, grouped up there's not much to look at and individually in the splices there's no detail to the art itself without an appropriate background (last years got stage lights/flowers and other SKT members faded in the back ground) to compliment that (and in nami's case there's no detail period). I'd say the only splice that looks good is the olaf one because he got positioned in the good part of the background (the only part with lightning and not just a void of clouds).

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--QYqAIOsQuk/V5Zqpk-BujI/AAAAAAAASEc/0d5evsKJ_pQqYMGBWGI2v3ntM5_fgZemQCEw/s1600/Azir_3.jpg https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k3PVFwRROOw/WUmOGV-DklI/AAAAAAAAndM/2W1cJAizXsIwayV1o9SmrShxGObvnlBeACLcBGAs/s1600/NamiLoadscreen_8.png

The difference is so huge. I may sound extremely arrogant and biased when I say this, but I think these need a splash art update more than a lot of dated splash arts. Its my opinion, some agree, some disagree, but I don't see many who agree that the splash arts are good the way they are (vocally).

Regardless, I'm glad you guys are at least taking one good step in the right direction with these skins

TerraRisingJun 23, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I just have one concern,

Will these be put back up for sale after the update?

History says that the skins would be brought back during Worlds or next year's MSI.

That history can also be thrown out the window if Riot can just dump their policies without notice because it's inconvenient.

So, who the hell knows.

Favours of TycheJun 23, 201722 votes

I DESPISE that Nami load screen - like I REALLY REALLY fucking hate it so much so, I'm not buying the skin period.

KaineJun 23, 20178 votes

I dont know what the other comments are going on about. Those splash arts are the worst to come out in recent memory, by a LOT. Rivaling my distaste for the cait and morg lunar revel splash. Im pissed cause I already have the RP for two of the three of them. Everyone going on about the VO's like its important meanshile the splash isnt worth howting on DA.

It looks fine as a washed out ensemble, for a poster, but it is horrendous as a solo.

I've never had my wallet recoil so badly in my life and I was going to buy Jhin, Nami, and Syndra. Namis skin tone doesn't even match and they ripped out her teeth for the solo (she has teeth in the group splash) so shes just a blow fish ( ha ha seriously its goddamn theft in a 1350 skin.)

Look at Warring Kingdoms Garen, Azir, and Vi. Fantastic splash arts.

MooglesJun 23, 201711 votes

Same. This Nami is a huge disappointment. Went from insta-buy to wouldn't even use if it was free based solely on that splash art.

NagatoFan1Jun 23, 201710 votes

{quoted}

Will these be put back up for sale after the update?

Just because the skins are not even finished, I may hold off on purchasing any of them until they get updated with new sounds (incase the sounds actually sound worse to me than the base skins and make me not care much for them). I would hate to have to wait a whole year for another esport sale only for them to be updated in a couple months and be unpurchasable at that time.

Some suggestions: Give an audience cheer during jhin's curtain call similar to 2015's recalls, and maybe make syndra sound more "metal" with her spheres as if they're trophies or something.

I still think the splash arts kill the skins for me. I factor in what the skins look like in their art and loading screen, its honestly part of the reason I even bought skins I hated in-game because their art captured their character so perfect (I bought prestigious LB for the new art alone). I feel the new SKT skins really lacked in the splash art, grouped up there's not much to look at and individually in the splices there's no detail to the art itself without an appropriate background (last years got stage lights/flowers and other SKT members faded in the back ground) to compliment that (and in nami's case there's no detail period). I'd say the only splice that looks good is the olaf one because he got positioned in the good part of the background (the only part with lightning and not just a void of clouds).

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--QYqAIOsQuk/V5Zqpk-BujI/AAAAAAAASEc/0d5evsKJ_pQqYMGBWGI2v3ntM5_fgZemQCEw/s1600/Azir_3.jpg https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k3PVFwRROOw/WUmOGV-DklI/AAAAAAAAndM/2W1cJAizXsIwayV1o9SmrShxGObvnlBeACLcBGAs/s1600/NamiLoadscreen_8.png

The difference is so huge. I may sound extremely arrogant and biased when I say this, but I think these need a splash art update more than a lot of dated splash arts. Its my opinion, some agree, some disagree, but I don't see many who agree that the splash arts are good the way they are (vocally).

Regardless, I'm glad you guys are at least taking one good step in the right direction with these skins

Couldn't agree more, I am a support main and was super excited about the Nami skin. That is until I saw her loading screen. Her position is just so awkward and most details about the skin can't be seen. I know it's way to late to change it now but I will forever think less of this skin because of the loading screen. Thus making me choose river spirit or deep sea over SKT more often than not.

SiberianTigerJun 23, 20174 votes

Supp main. I can feel your pain for Nami splash art as well.

This skin is awesome in game, I just love it. However, her splash art detalization and her own position is not just awkward, it's beyond that for me. I wonder how much time will pass before we get some fancy photoshopped versions of that splash art to represent the rule 34.

MooglesJun 23, 20178 votes

100% agree. I main Nami and was pretty excited for this skin until I saw the splash art. I don't want a boring splash of her back. I will not be purchasing the skin for this reason alone.

His XayáhJun 23, 201715 votes

the nami splash is terrible, no detail at all because she has her back turned

Makuta TeridaxJun 23, 201711 votes

Personal opinion, keep the article, add a disclaimer, and use it for guiding (so most skins are still going to follow it but there can be an exception here and there). Why I'm saying this? Because it's really how it should be. You currently have 5 pricing categories, 2 of which are basically the same (520 and 750) but one price is used for older content while the rest is for newer. Then we go up for 975 for a recall, and then it's 1350 for a recall and particles (and maybe a custom animation somewhere)... And then we go to 1820 and Ultimate tier, which are pretty much an overhaul and many models in one.

So the thing is, if you don't use it as guidance, how can we perceive those prices as more or less fair to us? In other words, what justifies in our (consumer) eyes that this skins are 1350RP worthy, if we don't really understand what differentiates it from other 975 skins clearly?

And having said this, I also find that if you guys could go into a bit more of detail regarding why you felt the price was right even with the lack of a few things, it'd help here too. Maybe we're overlooking something, as we don't really work on stuff and for us seeing a different model might not immediately make us understand how much complicated it is regarding another one.

Thanks for your time!

RiotRiot SuperCakesJun 23, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Makuta Teridax,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BmYixAkT,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-06-23T02:07:40.132+0000)

So the thing is, if you don't use it as guidance, how can we perceive those prices as more or less fair to us? In other words, what justifies in our (consumer) eyes that this skins are 1350RP worthy, if we don't really understand what differentiates it from other 975 skins clearly?

Hi Makuta Teridax (cool name!) We want a chance to get that article to match how we approach pricing in a clearer way. This isn't a massive shift, but something that needs an update. From my experience, it's pretty infrequent that the difference between the tiers isn't clear in the product itself, but I acknowledge that it does happen. Sometimes we add more into a skin than those guidelines call for and we don't change the price because we don't think it's necessary. Sometimes we add other things that we feel raise the quality and value to the next tier, but aren't on this checklist. It's creating confusion and we want to fix that. We look forward to having a more meaningful conversation with players about how we approach this stuff.

NotSoEvilDeadJun 23, 20173 votes

{quoted}

We look forward to having a more meaningful conversation with players about how we approach this stuff.

This is literally the perfect time to have that discussion. Look at this comment if you want a good launching point. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/BmYixAkT-so-about-those-skt-skins-2017-edition?comment=000f

BushidoBladeJun 23, 20173 votes

do you have any examples where you released a skin that was, in your opinion, a tier above the price tier? it would help to prove your point if you provided examples..

TerraRisingJun 23, 201711 votes

If I understand this:

When some very wary Redditors (among others) inform you that the announced price of these SKT skins does not meet with the company's current policy, rather than lower the prices and adjust revenue sharing accordingly, Riot's skins team decides to:

Stubbornly stick to the announced (and incorrect) price point, using revenue sharing as the only real justification.
Promise a future update (at an undisclosed time) that you admit may not improve the skins to that original price point.
Change current, longstanding announced policy to meet a new and currently unjustified "philosophy" that runs within the department.

If I have any of this wrong, please tell me.

To be honest, as a Yorick fan (for almost six years), this change in philosophy within the department scares me. If you guys are willing to change your policies at a whim, what sort of "confident commitment" can I realistically expect after waiting all this time? Am I going to have the opportunity to purchase a high quality skin that's worthy of my wait (or the champion's wait), or am I just going to get some hastily made thing that is underdone and overpriced because "screw Yorick fans" is still the team's philosophy?

Challenged JinxJun 23, 20174 votes

{quoted}

If I understand this:

When some very wary Redditors (among others) inform you that the announced price of these SKT skins does not meet with the company's current policy, rather than lower the prices and adjust revenue sharing accordingly, Riot's skins team decides to:

Stubbornly stick to the announced (and incorrect) price point, using revenue sharing as the only real justification.

Promise a future update (at an undisclosed time) that you admit may not improve the skins to that original price point.

Change current, longstanding announced policy to meet a new and currently unjustified "philosophy" that runs within the department.

If I have any of this wrong, please tell me.

To be honest, as a Yorick fan (for almost six years), this change in philosophy within the department scares me. If you guys are willing to change your policies at a whim, what sort of "confident commitment" can I realistically expect after waiting all this time? Am I going to have the opportunity to purchase a high quality skin that's worthy of my wait (or the champion's wait), or am I just going to get some hastily made thing that is underdone and overpriced because "screw Yorick fans" is still the team's philosophy?

Redditors cite a "guidelines" not hard rules, that are outdated.

"As a yorick fan" Doubtful, they always come out of the woodwork anytime a skin comes out. His playrate is bad, he's not a popular champion. Riot isn't here to be your friend, they're a company. Making skins for yorick isn't profitable. If he was even a marginally popular champion (personal anicdote but outside of aram, i don't think i've seen him in maybe the last 500+ games i've played), I could justify him getting a skin.

You don't have to expect anything. "worth your wait" lmao. You take this way too personally, no one's out to get yorick fans. He was a badly designed champion, somewhat fixed in his update, but still a bad champion.

TerraRisingJun 23, 201713 votes

[{quoted}](name=Challenged Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BmYixAkT,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-06-23T02:51:26.007+0000)

Redditors cite a "guidelines" not hard rules, that are outdated.

They weren't considered "outdated" until it was pointed out. And any guidelines are policy if there's nothing else set in stone.

"As a yorick fan" Doubtful, they always come out of the woodwork anytime a skin comes out. His playrate is bad, he's not a popular champion. Riot isn't here to be your friend, they're a company. Making skins for yorick isn't profitable. If he was even a marginally popular champion (personal anicdote but outside of aram, i don't think i've seen him in maybe the last 500+ games i've played), I could justify him getting a skin.

Yorick came out on June 22, 2011. I started playing League on July 1, 2011. The first champ I bought (outside the ones that came with the physical pack) was Yorick. I bought him because of his lore and paid full price because I didn't know about the sales. Hell, I got a chance to tour Riot HQ last year because I was so damn critical of the Yorick rework, so someone at Riot recognizes my fandom and passion for that champion. (Thanks Reav3)

Not that I needed to justify any of that. If I'm to hold SuperCakes to her word, you should take me at mine.

Also, the idea of Riot needing to make a profit is a joke. Riot Games is a subsidiary of Tencent Holdings, a Chinese internet firm (and have been for at least a year and a half). Riot's only need to make money is to justify Tencent's investment in the company and to keep the doors open. If Riot was built solely on making money, they'd have released a dozen Yasuo skins and just as many for Jinx as those two champs are the company's most popular (by a long shot).

Hell, not everything Riot currently does generates a profit. Their NA internet backbone likely costs them more than it's worth. They haven't make any real money on their professional circuit in five years since they don't advertise during the broadcasts. And, no, their skin sales don't pay for all of that.

You don't have to expect anything. "worth your wait" lmao. You take this way too personally, no one's out to get yorick fans. He was a badly designed champion, somewhat fixed in his update, but still a bad champion.

Up until recently, Riot has a company that demands high expectations from their players. because they had those same expectations for themselves. Why shouldn't I, you, Joe Schlomo or any random player hold them up to it? If you are willing to settle for "meh" work, that's on you. As a player, I choose to demand the best that this company can produce. That includes a high quality and wait worthy skin for a champ that, for reasons real and imagined, hasn't seen any love from this company since launch.

Also, Yorick is "a" champion, not a "bad" one. The "bad" is generated from your personal opinion, which is worth almost as much as mine.

Have a nice day.

Challenged JinxJun 24, 20171 votes

Also, the idea of Riot needing to make a profit is a joke.

They're a business, they exist to make a profit. they sink money into the LCS because it's a long term investment. I wouldn't say it's soon, but esports are definitely getting more mainstream, and that will start bringing in the big advertisers. Spend a lot early to make a framework that isn't shit, and reap the rewards a few years down the line.

And, no, their skin sales don't pay for all of that.

You'd be surprised.

If you are willing to settle for "meh" work, that's on you. As a player, I choose to demand the best that this company can produce. That includes a high quality and wait worthy skin for a champ that, for reasons real and imagined, hasn't seen any love from this company since launch.

Also, Yorick is "a" champion, not a "bad" one. The "bad" is generated from your personal opinion, which is worth almost as much as mine.

Remember when yorick wasn't on free rotation for years, and Riot said releasing the champion was a mistake and they apologized for it? I don't have to have a personal opinion about him being a bad champion. It's a fact weather you like it or not, besides not being on rotation for years, and after his rework he still had a low pick rate. He isn't a popular champion he's still the most braindead "antifun" champion to lane against next to heimerdinger, who because is a yordle, is at least someone popular enough to get skins.

I buy skins that look neat, I don't care what champ they are for. Jinx is my favorite champ, but i'd say 95% of the time I don't use skins on her because they don't look neat to me. If they stopped making skins for her It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, and some of my favorite skins that I have are for champs I don't play, I just buy them to support the game.

Could they do cool skins for yorick? Sure (void, cosmic, cat lady). WIll they before another rework? Probably not. The shadow isles event was probably the best update for him, and that didn't even save him. Until they figure out a better way to balance him, he's going to keep festering at the bottom of the regret pile.

TerraRisingJun 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Challenged Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BmYixAkT,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-24T04:34:20.589+0000)

They're a business, they exist to make a profit.

Riot is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tencent Holdings. Riot's continued existence is entirely dependent on the whims of their owners. As long as Tencent is happy with how Riot is doing, they'll keep the doors open.

Hell, Riot released a dev blog earlier this year saying that they "care" about revenue, but it's only one thing they care about and it's not the most important.

But they're all about that profit, huh?

they sink money into the LCS because it's a long term investment. I wouldn't say it's soon, but esports are definitely getting more mainstream, and that will start bringing in the big advertisers. Spend a lot early to make a framework that isn't shit, and reap the rewards a few years down the line.

You assume so much in this statement, it's jarring.

Do you know how the major sports in America (NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS, NHL) make most of their money? Broadcast rights. Local and national networks, including cable, pay billions of dollars every year for the rights to broadcast the games, which are then shared between the team owners and, eventually, trickle down to the players. For example, the NFL will receive nearly $40 billion from four different networks between 2014 and 2022. Split between the 32 teams, that will average out to almost $1.25 billion each over those 8 years.

On what format does the NA LCS broadcast their professional matches? Twitch and YouTube, which are free for fans who have an internet connection.

On the subject of "big advertisers," sports leagues don't touch all that much. While they may have "official product" designations that companies will pay for, most of the advertising dollars go to the networks who are trying to recoup their losses.

And it's not like Riot's hasn't had sponsors either. Coke Zero (for the Challenger Series) and American Express have both sponsored entire seasons of the NA Challenger Series and the NA LCS.

You'd be surprised.

Would you be surprised to know that a significant portion of the skins Riot releases aren't intended to make money, but that they're something cool for fans to have and enjoy? The most recent example of this is Dragon Sorceress Zyra, a skin they admitted in that dev blog wasn't going to be worth their work (low play rate and all that). You can also add all of the "Ultimate" level skins and the Hextech crafting ones to that list.

Like I said before (and you conveniently ignored), IF Riot was all about profit they'd have released a dozen Yasuo skins and just as many for Jinx. Those are Riot's two most popular champions by a wide margin.

Remember when yorick wasn't on free rotation for years, and Riot said releasing the champion was a mistake and they apologized for it?

I challenge you to find a Riot quote where they apologized for Yorick's release? They've said that he was rushed (he was forced into a slot meant for Vi, if memory serves) and one Rioter admitted that his ultimate was added at the last minute, but they've never issued an apology for releasing Yorick.

I don't have to have a personal opinion about him being a bad champion. It's a fact weather you like it or not, besides not being on rotation for years, and after his rework he still had a low pick rate.

You're combining opinions of the old and new versions of the champion. Has this conversation really affected you that much?

Currently, according to champion.gg, Yorick enjoys a win rate between 50% and 57% depending on rank and amount of games played on the champion. He's also picked in 1% of all games. Yorick's win rate is just too high right now to justify any buffs, which explained most of the QoL changes in Patch 7.10.

"Whether or not" you like it or not, you're projecting a personal opinion as fact and it's inherently wrong.

He isn't a popular champion he's still the most braindead "antifun" champion to lane against next to heimerdinger, who because is a yordle, is at least someone popular enough to get skins.

Yorick is not "popular" right now because he was not created with the current team-fighting meta in mind, but with an intended focus on split pushing. Any sentiments of "braindead" and "anti-fun" are just your personal opinions.

And, for the record, Heimerdinger hasn't had a new skin in three years (July 14, 2014).

Also, Riot's not going to rework Yorick. They're fine with him the way he is.

Have a nice day.

grimbldooSep 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Riot is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tencent Holdings. Riot's continued existence is entirely dependent on the whims of their owners. As long as Tencent is happy with how Riot is doing, they'll keep the doors open.

Not even remotely true. Tencent bought Riot to have revenue in the states because they are not capable of successfully running one of their own, the business culture is just too different. Riot used the money to expand their business. It's just a mutually beneficial relationship. If Tencent ever tried anything, the core team could easily just move over and start a new business, as is common practice in the industry.

Hell, Riot released a dev blog earlier this year saying that they "care" about revenue, but it's only one thing they care about and it's not the most important.

But they're all about that profit, huh?

Yeah, of course they aren't. They never would've gotten as big as they are if they didn't continue to develop the game out of the love they had for it. But at the end of the day, they are a business, and they need income to remain in business. Jhin already has three skins while Illaoi only has 1. The income they get from the LCS pays for the LCS. RP sales are what maintain the day to day business.

Do you know how the major sports in America (NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS, NHL) make most of their money?

Merchandise. Disney, Ferrari, etc. make almost all their money from merchandise. Ticket, dvd, and car sales only pay for the cost of production (as with LCS sales, as with broadcast sales), merchandise brings in the big revenue that allows each company to grow and expand beyond their normal means.

Would you be surprised to know that a significant portion of the skins Riot releases aren't intended to make money, but that they're something cool for fans to have and enjoy?

Would you be surprised that it's both? The most played champs get the most skins, but that excludes a lot of players and limits the artists. So riot has taken to making themes that allow them to include less popular champs. So you get the revenue from the popular champ, but you also get the fun side. Business doesn't have to be evil, you know.

Like I said before (and you conveniently ignored), IF Riot was all about profit they'd have released a dozen Yasuo skins and just as many for Jinx. Those are Riot's two most popular champions by a wide margin.

Ashe, Annie, and Teemo. The only reason those two don't have "dozens" is because of their age.

TerraRisingSep 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not even remotely true. Tencent bought Riot to have revenue in the states because they are not capable of successfully running one of their own, the business culture is just too different. Riot used the money to expand their business. It's just a mutually beneficial relationship. If Tencent ever tried anything, the core team could easily just move over and start a new business, as is common practice in the industry.

This statement has so many incorrect assumptions.

Tencent already owned over 93% of Riot before the full sale in December 2015. That purchase was just a formality.
Tencent already owned 1/8 of Activision/Blizzard and had shares in several other western gaming companies.
There was no "expansion" of Riot's business immediately after December 2015.
It's just as likely that the "core team" at Riot would stick around if TenCent tried anything. Hell, there's nothing really stopping the "core team" from leaving if TenCent did nothing!

The income they get from the LCS pays for the LCS. RP sales are what maintain the day to day business.

What income from LCS? They barely advertise (sponsored replays), live ticket sales are pretty miniscule and there's not much of a snack bar or a merchandise stand at the LCS Arena. (Things might have changed since the last show I went to, I'll admit, but I've heard Riot has had a hard time filling their stands).

If you're talking about the BAMtech deal, we haven't seen anything about that.

The team franchising deal hasn't kicked in yet, either, so you can't count that.

Truth is, RP sales pay for almost everything Riot does.

Merchandise. Disney, Ferrari, etc. make almost all their money from merchandise. Ticket, dvd, and car sales only pay for the cost of production (as with LCS sales, as with broadcast sales), merchandise brings in the big revenue that allows each company to grow and expand beyond their normal means.

What the hell are you talking about here?

If you're telling me that Disney and Ferrari are "major sports" in America, you've already lost this conversation. (FYI, one is an entertainment conglomerate and the other is a car manufacturer.)

The business practices of those companies have nothing to do with Riot and the LCS.

Would you be surprised that it's both? The most played champs get the most skins, but that excludes a lot of players and limits the artists. So riot has taken to making themes that allow them to include less popular champs. So you get the revenue from the popular champ, but you also get the fun side. Business doesn't have to be evil, you know.

That's a nice fantasy. Would be nice if there was some sort of confirmation about that ideal.

Ashe, Annie, and Teemo. The only reason those two don't have "dozens" is because of their age.

Those three aren't as popular as Yasuo and Jinx. Not by a long shot.

grimbldooMar 11, 20181 votes

This statement has so many incorrect assumptions.

Tencent already owned over 93% of Riot before the full sale in December 2015. That purchase was just a formality.
Tencent already owned 1/8 of Activision/Blizzard and had shares in several other western gaming companies.

There was no "expansion" of Riot's business immediately after December 2015.

It's just as likely that the "core team" at Riot would stick around if TenCent tried anything. Hell, there's nothing really stopping the "core team" from leaving if TenCent did nothing!

1-3. I'm not sure what you're getting at with these facts

4 It's highly unlikely that they would. Rare is a prime example of this, with the founders of the company leaving and forming another company and making Ukulele. It's an extremely common pattern when the vision of the new owners doesn't match that of the founders.

What income from LCS?

I think you might misunderstand the term "income" it doesn't mean profit, it just means money that comes in.

The business practices of those companies have nothing to do with Riot and the LCS.

Except I explained why they did. All these companies (including sports) make most of their money from selling merchandise. Not from the core product they produce, from the merchandise. And as you so confidently asserted Riot gets most of their money from RP meaning skins meaning merchandise.

That's a nice fantasy. Would be nice if there was some sort of confirmation about that ideal.

I don't know, maybe the fact that they do just that?

Those three aren't as popular as Yasuo and Jinx. Not by a long shot.

...Do you know what "age" means?

TerraRisingMar 11, 20181 votes

You seem unhealthily obsessed with having the last word, even when you don't have a case to present.

This "response" came five months after my other reply, which came four months after the previous one. Nine months of time, and you come back with nothing.

If you really need to have the last word, do so. I've been trolled enough and no longer wish to have my time wasted.

RiotRiot SuperCakesJun 23, 20177 votes

{quoted}

If I understand this:

When some very wary Redditors (among others) inform you that the announced price of these SKT skins does not meet with the company's current policy, rather than lower the prices and adjust revenue sharing accordingly, Riot's skins team decides to:

Stubbornly stick to the announced (and incorrect) price point, using revenue sharing as the only real justification.

Promise a future update (at an undisclosed time) that you admit may not improve the skins to that original price point.

Change current, longstanding announced policy to meet a new and currently unjustified "philosophy" that runs within the department.

If I have any of this wrong, please tell me.

To be honest, as a Yorick fan (for almost six years), this change in philosophy within the department scares me. If you guys are willing to change your policies at a whim, what sort of "confident commitment" can I realistically expect after waiting all this time? Am I going to have the opportunity to purchase a high quality skin that's worthy of my wait (or the champion's wait), or am I just going to get some hastily made thing that is underdone and overpriced because "screw Yorick fans" is still the team's philosophy?

Hi TerraRising!

I mentioned this in another response, but we want a chance to get that article to match how we approach pricing in a clearer way. This isn't a massive shift, but something that needs an update. From my experience, it's pretty infrequent that the difference between the tiers isn't clear in the product itself, but I acknowledge that it does happen. As an aside, I'm looking forward to getting you a dope AF Yorick skin after an unreasonably long wait.

TerraRisingJun 23, 20174 votes

{quoted}

As an aside, I'm looking forward to getting you a dope AF Yorick skin after an unreasonably long wait.

Thanks for the reply.

Frankly, I'm not interested in "dope AF" Yorick skin. That sort of phrasing from a Riot employee doesn't mean much to me. Hell, a Rioter told me on Reddit that Yorick's rework would be "metal AF." It wasn't and he knew it, even if he would never admit it in public! So, when you make a "confident commitment" to getting Yorick a skin in that dev blog and say you look forward to getting a "dope AF" Yorick skin to me, be aware of everything I've been through as a League player.

As a long time Yorick fan, I've been ridiculed by both Rioters and my fellow players for my choice in champion. I've experienced first hand the winces and groans from Rioters for telling them I was a Yorick fan. I've lost FB friendships with a few Rioters on your team/department because I keep pressing them for a Yorick skin. I've had multiple verbal scraps with Rioters (in person and over social media) about Yorick and his need for some positive attention from the company. I've even had the pleasure of meeting Ryze and Tryndamere after Season 3 Worlds and mentioned that Yorick really needed a skin to them.

Also, I've been through all the "special snowflake" nonsense with other Rioters on the QA side of the skins department. How they say Yorick is a "tough champion to make skins for," despite Elise being just as tough and still having more options in half the time. I've been through the blatant hypocrisy of the skins team when they say that reworked champions need time to get a new skin since all their old skins count as new, then see them release Pool Party Taric and Pool Party Fiora weeks after their reworks because "they were inspired." And, I've heard the excuses from both Rioters and players about how "Yorick's just not popular and it's not profitable to make a skin for him," even though we all should know that excuse is complete nonsense.

(I won't even mention how much money I've spent on this game, but it's probably enough to pay your salary for a week. Not that it should matter. Even a Yorick fan who's waited as long as I have and not dropped a dime for a skin should experience the same Riot love as every other fan.)

So, with all that out of the way, what I'm really interested in is a Yorick skin that makes all that worthwhile.

I'm interested in a Yorick skin that shows the ultimate level of creativity, effort, and love from this company, that they're willing to do their best to do right by a long neglected fan base and that they're willing to demonstrate their regret for making those players wait so long. I'm interested in a serious skin that helps promote a long neglected champion into being played and picked up by more players.

And, I'm also interested in seeing if your team will continue to work on more Yorick skins after this one (at a faster cadence) or if you're just done with him for another 5 years.

I've waited 6 years already, through all that nonsense. If I have to wait another ten and a half months to find out how confident your commitment really was, so be it.

(And, to be complete, six years is not an "unreasonably long wait." It's teetering on the edge of "cruel and unusual" and no other fan base should ever have to experience that. Not even Teemo's.)

N7 ZebraCakesJun 23, 201714 votes

There is such a thing as caring too much. Take a vacation or something man, and mellow out a little. It's a skin in a game. Yeah, it's been six years and maybe Yorick got you through college, but it's not the end of the world.

Drunk TsundereJun 23, 20176 votes

I respect your dedication, but I think you need to take a step back and think about what is truly valuable to you.

NinjaGuy69Jun 23, 20179 votes

Hi, SuperBaekes. Just out of curiosity, do you plan on adjusting prices for previously released skins in the near future? Not to disrespect the artists and designers, but older skins (like Warring Kingdoms Xin Zhao for example) have no legitimate reason for being 1350 RP. Thoughts?

LostFr0stJun 23, 20175 votes

Hello SuperCakes!

First of all thank you for the transparency about everything. The skins all look great^^

Now, I'm going to leave a couple comments here in case anyone else is in a similar boat and ends up doing the same thing. Please don't misinterpret it.

I love the Nami skin especially and was already planning on buying it.
Now that you guys have announced these 'modifications' I will be holding off on insta-getting the skin --hear me out:

It is in no way due to the policy update or anything of the sort, I will simply need to hear the sfx or w/e is added before I get the skin. I'll give an example with a different skin: Blood Moon Talon. The skin is amazing looking in every aspect, and it feels really good and smooth to use, but the sound of the Q is like a little barking dog and I can't be serious when listening to it X3

I know it's a stupid reason, but I wanted to put it here anyways.

Please pass my regards to the team, you guys are amazing.

GingerKing12Jun 23, 20175 votes

So will Jhin say, "1, 2, 3, BANG!" "S, K, T, BANG!" or even "Bang, Bang, Bang, BANG!"?

BarbaJhiniJun 23, 20173 votes

do not take the 4 out of jhin.

TormentulaJun 26, 20174 votes

Bang has four letters though so it works.

SuperdwarfJun 28, 20173 votes

So maybe "B, A, N, G!" then?

Edit: Or maybe "B, A, N, G! What's that? crowd cheers BANG!"

WendígoJun 23, 20174 votes

Thanking you for listening too feedback and responding to it
When you do update that article, I'd hate to see the feature list completely removed Without it I worry future skin prices will seem arbitrary

CrazFight Jun 23, 20174 votes

That feel when faker is gonna have more skins than yorick who has been out for 6 years U_U

Favours of TycheJun 23, 20174 votes

Honestly - I was going to break my strike of buying rp to protest a couple issues I have with Riot (haven't bought a skin in about 2 years) and get the SKT1 Nami skin because it's really stunning in game. However, the loading screen splash is REALLY terrible for it so I'm passing again. You guys either nail the splash art and the skin falls extremely short or vis versa. It's a shame that the artists were so willing to listen to the players and make sure the community was happy with the skins **IN GAME **- but then the splash is automatically final. _

Edit: I'd just like to add this point too, group splashes are fun but overused for convenience and thematic reasons obviously. This SKT1 splash looks amazing together but each figure falls short on it's own in detail and polish.

BadrickJun 23, 20174 votes

Hello, I am the OP of the reddit thread, and I think this is a great response. Thank you very much for your hard work.

AríonJun 23, 20174 votes

Annie In Wonderland!

v4j4yj4yJul 5, 20173 votes

Well, 7.13 is here but I don't see the SKT skins available for sale yet. I've been patiently waiting, but I would like to know as I need to budget for them. I already have some money set aside for them and every week there is an update the first thing I do is see if they are available to be purchased yet.