Let's talk about toxicity and throw some ideas together.

Apollon FiV·Apr 11, 2019·1 votes·2,694 views

So I recently got permabanned and I'm not saying, I got it so that means I overdid it with chat. But isnt a "permanent ban" too much and maybe not even working in some cases? Now, what I mean when I say it may dont work on some cases. I have played so so many times with teammates that claimed that they have been permabanned before. And** their behavior didnt change at all** I have to say. And what do I mean by saying "too much": I mean like, someone have been harrassed by someone and kinda gets triggered and responds with not a clear mind. I know I have a fault on this one, and whoever does it it's HIS fault, but everyone makes mistakes, that doesnt mean he should get prevented of playing the game.

flamers never stopped, and a permaban will never stop them. permaban sounds more of a revenge from a player to a player. toxicity havent stopped and wont stop that way

1st idea: perma chat ban So lets say. The flame goes on. Still goes on for a couple games. Perma chat ban. that will prevent the player from creating another account and keep flaming, and just go on without the ability of chating. pings and champ select chat is enough of communication for someone that talks offensive and does not help his team with the chat. or after a couple of chat bans perma chat ban !BUT! with 4-5 texts per a whole game.

2nd idea: prevently language filter (for all players) I mean riot, has set up a system which detects the toxic words. Insted of that they would use it someway to not let the player send a toxic message/text. It would detect a toxic word and a notification will tell you that this is not allowed. No player can send toxic words that way, with no way.

Like seriously stand for a minute and think clearly about it. Before you think that I'm a dude that got perma'd and just want his account back. I can create another account. but what about the people that gets perma all over and over again and just wont stop being toxic? If the goal is to clear toxic off of the game, permaban is not a solution. I mean there are flamers that wont even get banned.

**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm talking SPECIFICALLY for CHAT BEHAVIORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! inters and griefers, shall be dealed of other ways. **

. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Read the full discussion and comments before downvoting, or comenting something that is mentioned.

Thank you very much.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

15 Comments

Arcade LuluApr 11, 20194 votes

Language filter will never work Too many alternative ways to get past it

And riot has tried the perma chat ban, but in most games the banned player started being toxic in other ways, for example trolling games, and that is a lot harder to detect than toxicity in chat

Like, i would support the perma chat ban, but it does not work

SuicidePlankApr 11, 20191 votes

1st idea: perma chat ban So lets say. The flame goes on. Still goes on for a couple games. Perma chat ban. that will prevent the player from creating another account and keep flaming, and just go on without the ability of chating. pings and champ select chat is enough of communication for someone that talks offensive and does not help his team with the chat. or after a couple of chat bans perma chat ban !BUT! with 4-5 texts per a whole game.

Tried, with unlimited CRs. Guess what happend, toxic people remained toxic and since you stole their toy, they would go Int (real int, not "hurr durr u play bad u int"), trolling or plain afk. Curing only the symptoms doesn't work.

Apollon FiVApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So lets say. The flame goes on. Still goes on for a couple games. Perma chat ban. that will prevent the player from creating another account and keep flaming, and just go on without the ability of chating. pings and champ select chat is enough of communication for someone that talks offensive and does not help his team with the chat. or after a couple of chat bans perma chat ban !BUT! with 4-5 texts per a whole game.

Tried, with unlimited CRs. Guess what happend, toxic people remained toxic and since you stole their toy, they would go Int (real int, not "hurr durr u play bad u int"), trolling or plain afk. Curing only the symptoms doesn't work.

if they do those, they will get banned. i am talking spefically for chat behavior. and this is the point of my post, to get connected with people and throw some ideas to reduce the toxicity. you never know where a good idea will come from

Soul DealerApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So lets say. The flame goes on. Still goes on for a couple games. Perma chat ban. that will prevent the player from creating another account and keep flaming, and just go on without the ability of chating. pings and champ select chat is enough of communication for someone that talks offensive and does not help his team with the chat. or after a couple of chat bans perma chat ban !BUT! with 4-5 texts per a whole game.

Tried, with unlimited CRs. Guess what happend, toxic people remained toxic and since you stole their toy, they would go Int (real int, not "hurr durr u play bad u int"), trolling or plain afk. Curing only the symptoms doesn't work.

People do that anyway to avoid getting banned. So that’s an old outdated excuse.

HammermancerApr 11, 20191 votes

I just want an alt server for toxic pricks to opt into, let us be toxic to eachother and not make normal everyday people who aren't pricks uncomfortable.

it'd be a win-win

and before you worry about quo times, just think about the lowered potential of some douchebag getting mad about autofill and running it down mid actually inting, not unting, not just sucking, but actively trying to ruin the game.

In the salt server we'd have that often, but it'd be probably considered funny in a way. they wouldn't get banned or nothing, just like..

ModPrandineApr 12, 2019

{quoted}

I just want an alt server for toxic pricks to opt into, let us be toxic to eachother and not make normal everyday people who aren't pricks uncomfortable.

it'd be a win-win

and before you worry about quo times, just think about the lowered potential of some douchebag getting mad about autofill and running it down mid actually inting, not unting, not just sucking, but actively trying to ruin the game.

In the salt server we'd have that often, but it'd be probably considered funny in a way. they wouldn't get banned or nothing, just like..

Sorry but Riot has already stated that they will never implement a Prisoner's Island type system into their game. To read about why check here: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/

HammermancerApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sorry but Riot has already stated that they will never implement a Prisoner's Island type system into their game. To read about why check here: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/

Am i not allowed to disagree with that decision?

and am i not allowed to understand that every public statement any company makes is made within the confines of "attempting the best PR delivery possible"?

I've read it, first off i don't believe riot games understands a large portion of its audience, and has become disconnected with the fact that many people, across cultures, wish to engage in trash talk. That does not mean we need to subject those who don't want it to this trash talk, it just means that the large number of players who would actively prefer the 'toxic' environment are not able to be pragmatically reformed or culled, and they will keep making new accounts when banned, and will care less and less on each account because the first bar is gone.

i have multiple friends with over 5 permabans. some are immature pricks sure, and others are people just poking fun, just enjoying the argument. because to them it's a part of competative gaming.

prisoner's island isn't at all what i proposed, because i proposed something that is voluntary. telling people "You can be super toxic in this server, but not in the standard server". you could then actually increase restrictions on the normal server with minimal pushback because people who prefer that argument environment would already be somewhere else.

i know most of the people trying to convince you guys use words like "snowflake" or whatever, it's lame, they're bad at advocating their cause.

I'm here to be polite and disagree, firmly, with the idea that california cultural norms should be enforced globally on people of many different backgrounds and belief structures. I don't like feeling like im stuck at work when im playing tbh.

GatekeeperTDSApr 12, 20191 votes

first off i don't believe riot games understands a large portion of its audience,

Actually, they understand their LARGEST BY FAR portion of the audience - those who want to play the game and not deal with everyone else's horseshit. Toxic players drive other players away. They don't want to look for ways to keep toxic players playing - they want them to stop playing. Those who get permabanned are NOT a large portion of the audience at all - we're talking a fraction of a percent as has been quoted before.

HammermancerApr 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Actually, they understand their LARGEST BY FAR portion of the audience - those who want to play the game and not deal with everyone else's horseshit. Toxic players drive other players away. They don't want to look for ways to keep toxic players playing - they want them to stop playing. Those who get permabanned are NOT a large portion of the audience at all - we're talking a fraction of a percent as has been quoted before.

that depends on the community, there are actually salty scumbags and then there are the memelords who enjoy poking fun at eachother, like monkeys playing tricks, i think it's not unhealthy or actually toxic but use the term because it's the most commonly used identifier

ModPrandineApr 12, 2019

{quoted}

Am i not allowed to disagree with that decision?

and am i not allowed to understand that every public statement any company makes is made within the confines of "attempting the best PR delivery possible"?

I've read it, first off i don't believe riot games understands a large portion of its audience, and has become disconnected with the fact that many people, across cultures, wish to engage in trash talk. That does not mean we need to subject those who don't want it to this trash talk, it just means that the large number of players who would actively prefer the 'toxic' environment are not able to be pragmatically reformed or culled, and they will keep making new accounts when banned, and will care less and less on each account because the first bar is gone.

Well those players are the minority then as they'll just keep getting banned until they either shape up or ship out. As far as Riot not understanding trash talk is concerned, they do understand that some people like to trash talk. However, they also understand that even trash talk has its limits, and what gets punished in-game would also get punished in professional sports (Esports included) as well.

i have multiple friends with over 5 permabans. some are immature pricks sure, and others are people just poking fun, just enjoying the argument. because to them it's a part of competative gaming.

Well they need to realize that times are changing and that more and more companies are starting to crack down on consistently poor behavior, and that a game being competitive is no excuse for poor behavior. I'm a competitive person myself, but I don't go out of my way to abuse or harass others when things don't go my way. I just yell and rage at the screen when I get mad as it lets me vent my frustrations without compromising my teams chances of success.

prisoner's island isn't at all what i proposed, because i proposed something that is voluntary. telling people "You can be super toxic in this server, but not in the standard server". you could then actually increase restrictions on the normal server with minimal pushback because people who prefer that argument environment would already be somewhere else.

Sorry but it sounds allot like Prisoner's Island. Even if it's an opt-in experience it's still basically the same thing almost: creating an environment for the toxic players to thrive in. That's not what Riot wants-they want players to actually take the mature route when interacting with others, and if they don't or won't then they can just find another game to play.

i know most of the people trying to convince you guys use words like "snowflake" or whatever, it's lame, they're bad at advocating their cause.

No arguments there. Usually the "special snowflake" arguments come out once people start disagreeing with them or won't give them the Yesman answers they want to hear.

I'm here to be polite and disagree, firmly, with the idea that california cultural norms should be enforced globally on people of many different backgrounds and belief structures. I don't like feeling like im stuck at work when im playing tbh.

Compared to others who have brought up similar topics you have been polite in your disagreement, a rarity around here unfortunately. I wouldn't go so far as Riot is trying to enforce "California cultural norms' or anything like that, but more that they're trying to get people to interact with others online in a mature and respectful manner, and that just because it's an online game with anonymity doesn't give them a free pass to abuse and harass others. It's not rocket science or blasphemy or whatever to expect others to use basic human decency, nor is it outrageous for Riot to give people the boot if they refuse to interact with others in a mature and respectful manner. Many businesses do this, yet it's considered crazy when Riot does it simply because their product happens to be an online [multiplayer] game.

HammermancerApr 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well those players are the minority then as they'll just keep getting banned until they either shape up or ship out. As far as Riot not understanding trash talk is concerned, they do understand that some people like to trash talk. However, they also understand that even trash talk has its limits, and what gets punished in-game would also get punished in professional sports (Esports included) as well.

Well they need to realize that times are changing and that more and more companies are starting to crack down on consistently poor behavior, and that a game being competitive is no excuse for poor behavior. I'm a competitive person myself, but I don't go out of my way to abuse or harass others when things don't go my way. I just yell and rage at the screen when I get mad as it lets me vent my frustrations without compromising my teams chances of success.

Times are changing for human nature? there are quotes in ancient plays and epics of people trash talking eachother in competitions as way to boast their own skill or rally the troops.

I think this nicety stuff is a noble attempt but honestly i think it undermines the biggest common denominator, which is that we're imperfect apes and we have complex social interactions. Not all shit talking is inherrently bad, just as not all compliments are actually good.

These social interactions are definitely impulsive much of the time leading me to think it's instinctive social interactions. so i really don't think riot can wipe it out

Sorry but it sounds allot like Prisoner's Island. Even if it's an opt-in experience it's still basically the same thing almost: creating an environment for the toxic players to thrive in. That's not what Riot wants-they want players to actually take the mature route when interacting with others, and if they don't or won't then they can just find another game to play.

I don't thinnk it's mature to look at natural human behavior that will likely always occur regardless of the measures riot takes and attempt to embargo it when the evidence in my immediate surroundings, as a non toxic player who often gets friend requests after games and lots of honors, suggests that the toxicity hasn't decreased in quantity but has simply increased in negative intent. Whereas before someone would just meme to win lane with "mad cuz bad" now players will run around following you in jungle and stealing all your farm just to force the game to end

hell i haad a 0/9 corki mid with warmongs rush last night.

just let that guy call us all useless trash so i can be like "Prove you're better" so he wont actually throw, because you can steer those imbeciles, plus i'd love to mock him openly for his toxicity just to laugh about it. granted i'm bound by the rules so i don't, but I think it's normal interaction in many games.

No arguments there. Usually the "special snowflake" arguments come out once people start disagreeing with them or won't give them the Yesman answers they want to hear.

Compared to others who have brought up similar topics you have been polite in your disagreement, a rarity around here unfortunately. I wouldn't go so far as Riot is trying to enforce "California cultural norms' or anything like that, but more that they're trying to get people to interact with others online in a mature and respectful manner, and that just because it's an online game with anonymity doesn't give them a free pass to abuse and harass others. It's not rocket science or blasphemy or whatever to expect others to use basic human decency, nor is it outrageous for Riot to give people the boot if they refuse to interact with others in a mature and respectful manner. Many businesses do this, yet it's considered crazy when Riot does it simply because their product happens to be an online [multiplayer] game.

I don't think that's possible or plausible unless you get everyone to agree to submit to corporate stuff, there are ways that people will always naturally compete socially, which manifests more heavily when they compete in any sport or game.

Someone telling me im trash is a challenge for me to improve and in no way emotionally impactful

ah well, my side is losing but i do predict it will all collapse in on itself when people recognize the monolithic requirements to subdue otherwise mundane interactions instead of just encouraging /mute

Dokueki KenshinApr 11, 20191 votes

Frankly, the only way I see a permaban working is taking much stricter/more ironclad measures. Like, I don’t understand why Riot only bans the account and doesn’t start banning email address, IP addresses, MAC addresses, etc. The current ban system is like a paperweight made of Tun foil.

ModPrandineApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dokueki Kenshin,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=uLnrVYOs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-11T18:41:52.009+0000)

Frankly, the only way I see a permaban working is taking much stricter/more ironclad measures. Like, I don’t understand why Riot only bans the account and doesn’t start banning email address, IP addresses, MAC addresses, etc. The current ban system is like a paperweight made of Tun foil.

Your ideas don't work because not only are they fairly easy to get around with enough technical know-how but they also bring up the possibility of collateral damage. In fact, I remember reading a post (not recently but on the old boards) where a few years ago Riot did in fact try an IP ban on a toxic player. The result? An entire college campus was unable to play the game. As far as I know and remember the IP ban was removed and only the offender in question was banned.

Unfortunately due to the nature of free to play games there's no 100% guaranteed method of preventing permabanned players from playing again outside of maybe ID bans (ban on sight), but even those are reserved specifically for the worst of the worst and even then only as a last resort. If you have an idea to stop permabanned players from playing again that doesn't involve collateral damage or fairly easy workarounds then please feel free to share it.

Dokueki KenshinApr 13, 20191 votes

Perhaps a ban based on mandatory SMS verification then? I know that currently, SMS verification is optional, but phone numbers would not be as easily/quickly spoofed.

And do keep in mind that I also suggested MAC based bans, banning based on the physical device. While it true that MAC addresses can be spoofed, it’s not as easily managed as IP address masking, and it would avoid an entire network from being banned as stated in your post.