(LOCKED) Aram minor problems ; IMPROVING ARAM

Kim Joey·Jul 30, 2017·2 votes·657 views

Hi this is long overdue. I know you guys are busy but there is still a player base for ARAM and just for people in general who play the game mode. The only game mode i play is ARAM. I want reckon that I have literally gotten many bad aram picks because of dodgers because either they don't like there champ or any other reason. This is really starting to piss me off because i'll have a really good pick with a champion that I want to play but people dodge. I'd the ratio that the second third or 4th time that I get a decent champion that I want after the leave is like 1:7 in all the situation this has happened to me. So for a solution I thought of one. Why after the first leave you have the option to either discard into another random champion or choose to play the last one you got. It would be a obvious option 2 , click 1 of "Random Champion Or Keep The last q champion". I swear to you this re-occuroance just makes ARAM unplayable sometimes.

Another suggestion for the reroll is that you get to pick the champion you want. This has very likely been suggested before but I would like an answer as to why it has not happen. For clarity the RR really needs to shown in champion select. Just due to the fact that it takes so long for one to build up you want to see the progress in select. The functionality would be that YOU GET TO SEE YOUR ARAM RR PROGRESS. And honestly nobody really checks there profile. A couple of things masteries check, runes check, chest available check. Maybe champion mastery check. All these things you either know what your doing or can change in champion select. The RR for ARAM should really be in champion select and profile. BEING 100% REAL nobody checks there profile for RR progress. So why not just add it to champion select. There was no real reason to take it out but only for people not see there RR progress. How is that any beneficial? With all the love 5v5 is getting can ARAM get some? And whether you believe it or not some people do think of ARAM as a standard game mode as much as 5v5. And riot with some minor changes could achieve a more enjoyable game mode as ARAM just as 5v5.

Also the aram game mode really could use some love. I mean it has stayed the same for a very long time. You guys change 5v5. Why not fix certain ARAM idles that make other players look ARAM unattractive to make it more of a enjoyable game mode. Happy to answer any questions!

Update 1: UPDATE 1: Add a separate q with one being dodged and the other being a non-dodged q. The same applies as my above stated fixes. Teams of dodged will be placed together. This will work with conditions. Players with the same champion who were in a dodged q placed on other teams cannot be placed together if the same champion was placed on either of the team.

Update 2: Disappointed No Riot response on this change or opinion. Q.p

15 Comments

Imperial PandaaJul 30, 20171 votes

I enjoy ARAM but I do have a problem with both of the big ideas as I understand them.

The ability to keep previous champ from a dodge. There are two parts that i think would need tweaked. A. What if two pops occur a second after the other and both result in a dodge? A few of the members then get matched in the next pop. Two players just happened to have the same champ. Who would get priority? What if they were separate teams? B. You effectively remove at least one champion from the champion pool for the other players. Maybe they were hoping for their favorite champion but someone else got first dibs because of the system.
If I understand correctly when using a RR you want to let people choose their champion? Why even have random champs at that point? Yes there would be games where they might be forced but what if team mates helped? "Man I don't know how to play Kha Zix." "Oh trade me and we can pick someone you know. Who you want?" swaps and a wild Knife Cat appears. "Thanks man."

I was under the impression you could see RR progress in select if you had none and hovered over the button. Champion Mastery check, if you mean knowing who you have already gotten an S on for chest purposes, I am behind for implementing. Is a pain to look at collections and pick a champ for every position before jumping into a match

Kim JoeyJul 30, 20171 votes

A.&B. Thats fair. Pretty rare but still fair. If this were to happen. I would make it so that the match making wouldn't allow this to happen. By that I mean just don't put the two same players that had the two same champs in the same champion select. Sure it might extend the timing but it is fair. Pretty simple solution to a very loaded problem. For example I get Yasuo and the other player gets yasuo thats fair. The match making automatically places both of the two players on separate teams or q selections. You could think have it like this a dodge lobby which be quite popular in aram. And a non dodge lobby in aram. 1 team gets match with the other that had 1 dodge and so on. The CHampion select would work as so. Non-dodged lobbies great ; trade rr etc. If dodged they get their choice in two of the options either keep or get another random.

2.The point being is that you may get unfavorable champion regardless or the RR. Theres no point besides in that. Why not reward the player with a particular champion that YOU UR SELF have to build up the dice up for. I'm fine with the dice requirement being more. For example make it 500 rather then 250. This makes the game more enjoyable and aspect of the game more attractive. Also by adding features give the game mode more depth. By keeping its simplicity in tact but adding more depth. Also the RR system is intended to work for ur self and others. If you don't have enough dice for a RR to bad. If a player really wants to trade just because you can't play that champion so be it. That's the players choice. But I doubt somebody will actually do that. They much rather have a choosing of there choice.

No you cannot see the RR progress regardless of how much you have. Would add alot of clarity if they did. Also I was talking about the mastery chests to when people in general look at the profile in terms of purpose. But now that you mention it im down for that to be added to. Could be a icon or simple etc.

Imperial PandaaJul 30, 20171 votes

Old client you could see progress in lobby.

I still say no to the RR being a choice matter. The whole point of RR is to get a new champion and if you want everyone to have a random champ, the RR should be random too. (Have seen once an Eve RR and Eve actually ended up on the other team when they RR.) Raising the amount for RR would only be a start but wouldn't really be enough compensation for the ability to pick your champ (especially since some are more useful than others.) Currently it takes like 3 games for me to have both my rerolls again. Raising the cap would fix this, but it may lead to more trolling. i.e. Someone enters the lobby purely in order to get RR credit and plays poorly in order to end game sooner for their credit. Done in such a way that you wouldn't know they did it on purpose.

I don't think it would add more depth, I think it would just be seeing a lot more of certain champs on the map. (Lux, Sona, etc...)

Kim JoeyJul 31, 20171 votes

Wow. I will have to strongly strongly disagree with you. Yes the whole point of a RR is to reroll and random champion so on and so forth. But as a main aram player there are many problems. The solution not only benefits the game mode complexity from the problems I have seen, but gameplay wise to. Right now ARAM is just a game mode for MANY MANY MANY players to go in champ select oh don't like this champ dodge. Or it is last game of the day. Oh wait what is this a bad champion DODGE. Again the point of my RR is to reward the players WHO PLAY ARAM. Or casually play often then the 1 timers. For example just for per say. The player that plays ARAM for 1000 games should be rewarded with more games played rather then say someone with only 10 aram games. This way the obvious player who players more ARAM games gets to choose more of the champion he/she wants to play, while maintaining the same cap. This issue addresses the players that dodge constantly.

Now I main ARAM. It does not take a player only "three" ARAM games to get a reroll. That is a lie. To address the issue for trolling. THE whole point is to still have random champion feature. BUT you can build your reroll INTO a CHAMPION OF YOUR LIKING. So really why are you joining ARAM? Obviously to play it and have fun. But this gives more consistence. Also i'm completely dumb founded that you brought up this aram trolling lose game on purpose. The most obvious fix would just extend the RR requirement to a point of where there is no grind, troll, grind, troll. I'm assuming not only are you wasting your time but would be incredibly boring. Also I'm ASSUMING riot would catch these people for obvious purposes and ban them.

Also to assume Lux, sona, and other champs as so would be picked more is fair I will say that. But the RR requirement can be fixated so that you just won't see lux sona etc EVERY GAME. I find ARAM more of a fun game mode to play I think people who constantly play ARAM find enjoyment out of it. This isn't 5v5 where META is enforced. Your given random champs. And if you build enough RR then ur free to choose.

Also by compensation what are you inferring at? The point is to reward the player who has played X amount of ARAM games and choosing their liking of champion. If its a balance issue. There is WAY WAY to much to attributes to this point. The biggest being MISMATCHES which already exist. EXAMPLE all 5 ap poke champions against champions who are heavy item reliant. The time it takes to build vs the damage they receive and pusha-ablity. There is only so much you can do. The point IS TO PLAY THE CHAMPION YOU WANT to play. This isn't 5v5 where you can just balance co-existing game modes ; its ARAM.

Also the fact that I didn't even know the old client had a RR in profile just speaks more to my point. I didn't bother to check it at profile rather then just being able to see it at champion select.

My point of RR is that you have built up enough amount of games to play the champion you want. Not only because you were playing random champions but makes a tremendous amount of more sense. Its like okay I been dieting for a straight month. Now it is time to reward my self with a treat. The fact of the matter is that you can fixate the RR progress to have way more progression progress then lets say instant gratification.

I hope these addressed your concerns!

EDIT 1: Also these fixes another problem that occurs. Person A leaves because they do not like their champion. Then a chain reaction begins. Person B Of A B C D & E that were on the previous team or opposite team does not like their champion choice. Guess what DODGE. Oh well person C now dodges. Believe me THIS DOES HAPPEN.

Imperial PandaaJul 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kim Joey,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=QksAEMi1,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-31T03:51:11.739+0000)

Now I main ARAM. It does not take a player only "three" ARAM games to get a reroll. That is a lie.

It isn't. Correct me if I am incorrect. Currently it takes 250 (basing off old client when you could see progress in lobby) points to gain a reroll. Equation I found when googling reroll equation. The formula for Reroll points gained is 30 + (1 x Champions Owned) per game. This has been stated in the forums by a developer, and is very easy to confirm in the post-game stats by mousing over the Reroll point awards.

I own all the champions so after I play 1 match I get 30 + (1 x 137) = 167 167 points towards reroll is what I get after every match. So after two games (with the current number needed for RR) I have a RR plus... 167x2=334 ... 1 RR and 84 points to my second one. A third game 84 + 167 = 251.

So yes, my circumstances allow me to get 2 rerolls every 3 games I don't use one.

META is only enforced by players who choose to follow it, RIOT doesn't force it (they encourage, but don't force per se) [This is neither here nor there though.]

I'm glad you want to make it so we don't see the same champs everytime, but it just made me realize another problem, which I guess could go back to another point. A. When I RR, is it going to bring up the entire champ select? If so, won;t it have to block the champions my enemies have?

B. We are both in a Lobby on separate teams, we both RR and without knowing it are trying to get the same champ because we like them. What happens?

Kim JoeyJul 31, 20171 votes

Not sure you realize not every play owns every champion like you. I myself only own about 8. Besides that the times you have to take in account the players which are alot. That DO NOT own champions and get a random one. Not earning extra RR. I can tell you with certainty that the average player does not get a RR in 3 games.

A. The RR progress would bring up the Free To Play champions along side with the champions you own only. I'm not sure what you mean by " If so, won;t it have to block the champions my enemies have?" Like I literally have no clue.

B. This is kinda baffling. Two of the same champions of each others team can still be played.

Could you explain what your trying to get across more clear please.

Imperial PandaaJul 31, 20171 votes

I realize not everyone owns all the champs but was presenting the counter argument of you saying it didn't take only 3 games for a RR. So the reverse can be said to you; not sure you realize it but some people own all the champs. (given time and ip it is quite easy. Buy all the ones under 6300 and then buy hextech champ shards, they are 1700 ip i believe [3x1700=5100] which saves you 1200 ip... I like doing math) But I'm not trying to start any bad blood over this.

A. What I meant is in its current state, ARAM does not have potential to have a mirror match. There won't be a Ashe on both teams. If the RR let you choose your champ, wouldn't it have to hide the ones that are already assigned? This would probably be more advantageous the more champs you had, but even with a few you could see at least what free champs the enemies had.

B. This goes back to the mirror match already mentioned. As it stands two of the same champ doesn't exist in ARAM (asides from events which haven't seen recently.) Did I miss the suggestion of opening the ability for a champ to be on both teams in ARAM?

Kim JoeyAug 1, 20171 votes

Would have to disagree first part. If your a new player. And given the amount of time it takes to accommodate all champions including the ones you want to play your talking a way longer period of time. One is who I want to play because I see the champion. This goes into most 4800 and 6300 champions. A champion shard is a random champion. Not every player will just buy a 450 just to get a 450. Nobody really likes collecting champions just to collect champions. They want to buy the champions THEY want TO PLAY. So no the same cannot be said to me because the fact of the matter is you cannot generalize by simply doing math and saying X Y and Z as counter arguments. It doesn't work that way. Yes some people own all the champs. Which would be EVEN BETTER for them to have this change because they can CHOOSE THEIR CHAMPION THAT THEY SO RIGHTFULLY BOUGHT. IMAGINE all those champions who would just want to get random picked? (also with time you are not buying all champions in 1 2 or even 3 seasons). The ip gain is low ; even with first win of the day which nobody does AND gets ip at the same exact hour of the day, everyday).

Aram does have potential to have mirror matches lol. I see it all the time and is exactly the reason why everyone does not own the champs and why you see more of the same champions deducing more closely to free to play. 450 ip champions & free to play. Yes there will be a ashe on both teams because shes one of the first champions you get. Dude " If the RR let you choose your champ, wouldn't it have to hide the ones that are already assigned?" What the in the world does this mean. It goes in this order, RANDOM FIRSTS REGARDLESS then reroll. You NEED to make this more CLEAR because im reading this and have no idea what you mean. YOU CANNOT CHOOSE the champion if it has been already randomized to a player.??????
Two of same champions can be on same match. When a dodge occurs two of the same players (that were in the same q before) will be in separated q's (after the dodge) ; This is because it will ensure that they do not land on the same team (yes they may be matched up against each other). This is FAIR because they got the champion in the LAST Q that somebody DODGED. And should be given the chance to play that after they did get it random.

The order works as so (non-dodged). Random, RR, Trade (whenever) (dodge). "Keep" or "Random" This can be done in a time frame 5-8secs. Eight seconds for the slow PCs After the players have chosen. They are free to keep, reroll, or trade as however they choose.

It really isn't that complicated. Regardless of the situation it will work out.

Imperial PandaaAug 1, 20171 votes

Once again, I realize not everyone will own all the champs, I realize it will take time to unlock them all. Are you considering that there are level 30s who have played for a while and do have the champs? (Yes you can unlock all the champs in 2 seasons, depending on how much you play. Especially with the hextech crafting now potentially giving you more champ shards to enchant or RR) I enjoy the random pick of ARAM because I may get a champion I don't play all that often.

Please show me this, because I have never seen it. You are sort of grasping it. Not being able to pick a champion that has been randomized to a player. Obviously it is easy to block the ones for your team. My point came from if the enemy team champions would be blocked. Which, if you show me RECENT (In this past season please) evidence that the same champ can be on both teams in ARAM, it will void this entire point.
Not questioning the ability to keep a champion that you had from a dodge. I also see it as unfair if you enter a lobby with player who maybe just got in que. Maybe the new person would have rolled Lux but since someone else had her in prior que, they got something else. It is fair maybe the ones who keep bouncing lobby to lobby, but not to the new que.

You would need to change the name of the game mode if they did allow picking for RR. since... Players are not given the ability to choose their champion (All Random) and fight in a single lane (All Mid). Is the design. Even if the initial assignment is random, the ability to "reward" a pick in an All Random would sort of remove the random.

Kim JoeyAug 1, 20171 votes

YES DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPEND ON THE GAME. YES. THEN YOU CAN UNLOCK ALL THE CHAMPIONS. But people have shit to do. you cannot just realistically stand here and tell me yea you can unlock every champion in two seasons. NO THAT IS NOT REALITY IM SORRY IF you think it is, but it isn't. People have things to do and REAL life. Stop telling how easy it is to get champions when it is not. League is very time consuming.

No I cannot just recall a random game from the past where I had the same match up. Thats like trying to remember the exact date I ate the same meal with someone on a given day. What is that a joke? If you never had two of the same champions on the team you prob haven't played enough. What is your point of the same champion being on both sides of the team. There is even other leveling degree because it is random. Do you know what the chances are for both random picks to be on the same team. Given there randomness, champion acquaintances, experience level, time spent on the game, and champion probability of selection? Stop trying to generalize when you cannot accurately quantify the qualitative of the community. WHAT IS THE POINT. GET TO THE POINT. "Obviously it is easy to block the ones for your team. My point came from if the enemy team champions would be blocked." what the hell are you saying DUDE. god damn. Stop trying to make me dissect your play on words.
No you are not removing the random. I don't why this is so hard for you to grasp. If you make the cap for a reroll to 1000 right? And set each game to a flat rate of 50 then how many games would that take? Or even set it to 100. Thats every 10 games you choose. And every 1000th of 100th you get to choose.
You have never addressed any of the solutions in which these problems fix. Why? Obviously because they are solutions.
Make your point across clear if you want to disagree with me on this because I don't think you any substance at all. AT ALL
I'm not replying again if you make a inquisitiveness assumptions.

MoonTriggerJul 31, 20171 votes

wrong board dude

Kim JoeyJul 31, 20171 votes

Says board feedback. I thought it meant feedback in general.

mkynerAug 1, 20171 votes

Why do people dodge from ARAM? Because they didn't get a Champion they like. Why is Poro King popular enough to be brought back every few weeks? Because it's basically ARAM but you get to pick your Champion. I think there is a demand for a one-lane game mode (Howling Abyss map) but where players have more control over who they play as.

So, give it to them.

I think ARAM itself should be left alone, maybe make it a Rotating Game Mode. Then, a new permanent game mode would be added. Let's call it ARAM Minus R. It would use the Howling Abyss map, but with Champion Selection, like in Poro King. Not Random Selection.

I get that some people are really into the Random aspect, but for myself, and I think a lot of others, the thing I like about ARAM is the general simplicity of it, compared to Rift games.

(Random aside: how about a 5v5 ARAM style game, but on the Twisted Treeline map?)

Kim JoeyAug 1, 20171 votes

Not sure about that....... Poro king is only brought back because it is a "extra game mode" while ARAM stays because it is a staple of LoL and has been out for a long while. The differences for ARAM that I made are RR gets to be chosen and players dodging. You need keep ARAM the same RANDOM while keeping the simplicity which I did.

GalaciusAug 1, 20171 votes

Heya,

I am locking your thread for being on the wrong board. The board that you want to discuss this in is Misc.. Since this thread has discussion, I will not delete it. However, for the future, please post on the correct board. Boards feedback is for inquiries about moderation matters, feedback to improve the boards, and complaints about moderation or actions moderators have taken.

Thanks,

Galacius