Gameplay+ Thread Removed

Average Gerg·Dec 21, 2018·4 votes·4,940 views

Hey there,

My thread I tried to post on Gameplay+ wasn't approved. No reason was given. The About Gameplay+: Approval Process, Guidelines, and Etiquette sticky was linked, but I had already read through that and believed to have followed the rules specified.

Here is the post in question. Title is Itemization on Azir Feels Bad:

Azir feels bad due to itemization options.

Azir wants to build AS and AP forcing him to build the single item that gives these stats, Nashor's Tooth. What feels bad about this is that Nashor's Tooth has an on hit passive. Azir's soldiers don't apply on hit passives. So in Azir's ideal trading situation, he'll never get a chance to use this feature of Nashor's Tooth.

And if you'd like to build more AS there are no options that don't have this issue.

Wit's End? On hit. Guinsoo's Rageblade? On hit, and even if you stack up the 6 stacks, soldiers won't attack twice every other attack. Zeal items? Soldiers can't crit. Trinity Force, on hit passive. Essence Reaver? Has AD, and even still passive is on hit.

Wouldn't it at least feel better to nerf Azir's numbers later into the game and allow his soldiers to proc on hit passives? Every AS item has on hit passives, and Azir is a champion they designed with AS in mind that can't utilize these passives to their fullest potential.

Or does Azir just need a rework?

This is the only line in the denial referencing why the post was denied:

This post asks a lot of questions, but doesn't answer or analyze many. I'd like to see more active problem-solving go into a G+ post.

Providing solutions to problems isn't noted as necessary in the Sticky. Please update sticky with all rules for posting, or expand on the following guideline I assume is used as a catch all:

Posts must provide a thoughtful analysis or other meaningful starting point for discussion. Data should be cited where possible, and hyperbole is not appropriate. Do not let your passion about some aspect of the game cloud your ability to present your views, and do not let your views get in the way of having a respectful discussion.

9 Comments

A Swarm of KoalaDec 21, 20184 votes

How much did you wire to Riot via paypal? You might have missed that step.

mlm olo mlmDec 21, 20183 votes

Apparently, 2 questions counts as "a lot" of questions.

Resubmit with 1 more additional "problem-solving" idea. Don't put it in question form.

rujitraDec 21, 20182 votes

Gameplay+ threads I've looked at have a lot of data.

Your post is almost entirely opinion without any actual data to support why you say certain things won't work or changes are needed.

Average GergDec 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Gameplay+ threads I've looked at have a lot of data.

Your post is almost entirely opinion without any actual data to support why you say certain things won't work or changes are needed.

But I do specify the specific data that on hit passives don't work with Azir's desired trading pattern, that Azir's kit leads AS to be a desired stat, and that all items that give AS have on-hit passives or crit.

rujitraDec 21, 20181 votes

But you don't provide any data on why the fact Azir cannot use on-hit is detrimental to his kit. Yes, you show that it means that there is no pure AS+AP item that he is able to fully utilize. But you don't show his kit and balance actually suffers due to that. And you further don't show any comparisons to other champions.

All in all, your post is a valid point but I don't see much room for discussion of it - you've made up your mind that you think it's not okay, but provide no data other than "it feels bad that he has no item he can build" to support the need for a new item.

Average GergDec 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But you don't provide any data on why the fact Azir cannot use on-hit is detrimental to his kit. Yes, you show that it means that there is no pure AS+AP item that he is able to fully utilize. But you don't show his kit and balance actually suffers due to that. And you further don't show any comparisons to other champions.

All in all, your post is a valid point but I don't see much room for discussion of it - you've made up your mind that you think it's not okay, but provide no data other than "it feels bad that he has no item he can build" to support the need for a new item.

I didn't even suggest adding a new item. I pointed out the issue and brainstormed some solutions. I personally like the idea of nerfing Azir's damage later and allowing on hit passives to work on his W.

You also misrepresented my point. It's not, "it feels bad that he has no item he can build," but instead, "the items that Azir can build are worth less on Azir than other champions due to the fact that he doesn't really use the on hit passive."

Adding new AS items without on hit passives could be one option, but so could adjusting numbers on his kit and making on hit passives work while still keeping Azir 'balanced'.

Azir doesn't have much flexibility in his build, which yes is a problem other champs have, but I don't feel as deeply as Azir. Wits End specifically could be a really good item on him if it worked. And seems like a good item to random players who don't know that Azir's W doesn't apply on hit passives.

Would really prefer to be having this discussion in Gameplay+ tho

ModUlanopoDec 21, 20181 votes

I didn't review your submission, but I understand where Kemp was coming from on the removal. I would have similarly declined to publish. While it might seem weird to have a submission that didn't make the cut because of the questions you asked, maybe considering the following will help you refine and resubmit.

When we talk about a Champion "feeling bad", we normally mean balance, matchups and/or fantasy. Azir seems to hit the sand mage + emperor notes pretty well and I'm not familiar with any balance or matchup concerns. Are you sure you aren't making this suggestion simply because his itemization is boring? If so, isn't this a problem faced by a fair number of champions?

Azir has one of the highest skill floors among Champions, but has been repeatedly nerfed because he can be stifling in high-tier play. How would adding on-hit and crit to his soldiers affect this?

Wouldn't some of the interactions be problematic? Stormrazor, for example.

What, ultimately, do you want the discussion to be about?

Hope that helps.

mlm olo mlmDec 21, 20182 votes

Posts must have a clear and specific title that provides an introduction to the topic of the thread.

Title is clear and specific. They are unhappy with the itemization options available to Azir.

Posts must provide a thoughtful analysis or other meaningful starting point for discussion. Data should be cited where possible, and hyperbole is not appropriate.

"Thoughtful analysis" is going to be subjective. I feel they did decently enough. They identified itemization issues. They used data by observing all the available items with attack speed.

They definitely gave a meaningful starting point for discussion. As evidenced by multiple people joining the discussion despite this not being a thread meant to discuss Azirs itemization.

Posts must offer a direction for conversation that is not shared with other recent or active posts.

I don't believe that is a problem. Wasn't cited as one.

Posts must genuinely invite discussion, even if others take another viewpoint or support another side of an argument.

This is where the questions the OP provided are relevant. They are inviting discussion on Azirs itemization.

I'd like to see more active problem-solving go into a G+ post.

That is not a part of the guidelines for G+. The OP has a valid concern that this reason was cited for denying their thread.

Honestly, at first I thought there wasn't much room for discussion. I have been proven wrong though:

Wouldn't it at least feel better to nerf Azir's numbers later into the game and allow his soldiers to proc on hit passives?

does Azir just need a rework?

I'm not familiar with any balance or matchup concerns. Are you sure you aren't making this suggestion simply because his itemization is boring?

Azir has one of the highest skill floors among Champions, but has been repeatedly nerfed because he can be stifling in high-tier play. How would adding on-hit and crit to his soldiers affect this?

Wouldn't some of the interactions be problematic? Stormrazor, for example.

If anything, give the OP a valid excuse for denying their thread. If the OP had all the answers then it wouldn't be much of a discussion, it would be more of a proclamation.

Average GergDec 22, 20181 votes