I'm tired of votes.

mlm olo mlm·Aug 14, 2018·4 votes·2,579 views

Any jack ass can just down vote your entire discussion on a whim. They don't need logic or reason. They don't even need to read or understand your comments.

Furthermore, I didn't ask for my discussion to be rated and ranked. I made a discussion topic in order to discuss. Votes do not encourage discussion.

Edit: Just look at the comments for proof. I'm going to copy/paste them here for your convenience.

I had no intention of discussing. I specifically only wanted to vote on the comment.

You've earned your downvotes from what I've seen

I didn't read what you wrote up there, but i do not like the title...downvoted....or maybe upvoted...I don't know

Bump downvoted......just for the lulz LUL....

upvoted

47 Comments

EvilDustManAug 14, 20185 votes

You've earned your downvotes from what I've seen

Thee Pie ManAug 14, 20183 votes

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. The votes are just the common people's ability to categorize content that they themselves deem relevant or not. If you don't have anything to discuss that interests people then it's going to get downvoted because you're the only one that actually WANTS to discuss it. That's understandable right?

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

The votes are just the common people's ability to categorize content that they themselves deem relevant or not.

Ok stop right there. I don't want "the common people" telling me what to look at. They don't get to decide what I find relevant or not.

If you don't have anything to discuss that interests people then it's going to get downvoted because you're the only one that actually WANTS to discuss it. That's understandable right?

No. When I don't want to discuss something, I simply don't. I don't vote. I don't comment in any manner. I have no need to tell everyone my likes and dislikes.

Thee Pie ManAug 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-08-14T08:47:25.367+0000)

Ok stop right there. I don't want "the common people" telling me what to look at. They don't get to decide what I find relevant or not.

No. When I don't want to discuss something, I simply don't. I don't vote. I don't comment in any manner. I have no need to tell everyone my likes and dislikes.

Then don't and ignore the system. The system doesn't have to apply to you in that regard- and in that case what's the problem? You're saying they don't get to decide, and they don't even with the voting system, you can still go back and look at all the topics with negative votes and feel free to post on them and talk to the people if they want. Just like anyone else, no one is stopping you from doing such, nor stopping other people from ignoring the votes as well.

Alright, and you're perfectly free to do that. But other people want to do so, and most people just see it as a way of weeding out topics that are either offtopic or more likely, irrelevant to their interests/what they want to talk about/out of disagreement. Not everyone has minutes to burn on this forum, some people just come on while they wait for queue or to complain/rationalize problems. However how eloquently and charismatic the post is plus how much of an actual problem it is will garner you the agreement/disagreement of the individuals.

The only reason you're making this topic is because you get downvoted, if you were upvoted a bunch this topic wouldn't even exist I bet. People only dislike systems when it doesn't favor them.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

The system doesn't have to apply to you in that regard- and in that case what's the problem?

The system is intrusive. The system also reduces quality discussions.

and most people just see it as a way of weeding out topics that are either offtopic or more likely, irrelevant to their interests/what they want to talk about/out of disagreement.

An individual voting system would be much more useful. Then an algorithm could find topics tailored to your individual personality. Instead of the most popular personality. Also solves all my issues with the vote system from above.

Because the vote system is majority rules, the unique individual loses influence on what they want to look at.

However how eloquently and charismatic the post is plus how much of an actual problem it is will garner you the agreement/disagreement of the individuals.

I don't care about the agreement/disagreement. I care about the reasons why they agree/disagree. It's the difference between dictation and conversation.

The only reason you're making this topic is because you get downvoted, if you were upvoted a bunch this topic wouldn't even exist I bet.

It might have a different tone. However, neither vote encourages discussion. A ton of up votes with no discussion does me no good. It's not like Riot implements the ideas with the most up votes.

AseraanAug 14, 20182 votes

Bump downvoted......just for the lulz LUL....

Edit: thats what u get for going into a vote fight with no topic.

Eryl FaunaAug 14, 20182 votes

[deleted]

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

"I disagree" is not reasoning.

Had you instead voiced your reasoning, we could possibly have a discussion. As it is, it is hard to discuss with an arrow.

SEKAIAug 14, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-08-14T03:58:41.565+0000)

"I disagree" is not reasoning.

Had you instead voiced your reasoning, we could possibly have a discussion. As it is, it is hard to discuss with an arrow.

Except agreement and disagreement are reasonings.

Unless you think if I say "ayyyy ramen are the best", and you say "no, it's not, I disagree", and I can say "that's not reasoning. I win.".

This isn't to say reflex voting isn't bad, but it doesn't change the fact "I agree" or "I disagree" inherently hold value whether one likes it or not.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

rea·son

noun

a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.

the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.

verb

think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.

"I disagree" is not reasoning. "I disagree BECAUSE..." is reasoning.

"ayyyy ramen are the best", and you say "no, it's not, I disagree"

None of that is reasoning. All of that is simply arguing. Neither has proved their point and thus neither would "win" the argument.

SEKAIAug 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T04:07:22.912+0000)

"I disagree" is not reasoning. "I disagree BECAUSE..." is reasoning.

None of that is reasoning. All of that is simply arguing. Neither has proved their point and thus neither would "win" the argument.

Obviously, agreement and disagreement happen because there is a "because". It's just a matter of whether or not that "because" is shared/expressed and whether or not it's based in relevant argument; but otherwise, "because" is never absent whenever one makes a decision to agree or disagree with something or someone.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

Your "reasoning" (vote) does not need to be rational, correct, logical, or even relevant. Thus, it does not meet the definition for "reasoning".

"Providing reasons" is a great way to show reasoning. It is also a great way to have discussion.

Eryl FaunaAug 14, 20181 votes

[deleted]

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

I had no intention of discussing. I specifically only wanted to vote on the comment.

DIng, ding, ding. Votes do not promote discussion.

What's worst is you interfered with any discussion that could have happened.

Eryl FaunaAug 14, 20181 votes

[deleted]

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

I'd like to see you have a discussion with a poll. Just you and a poll. No one ever providing context for their votes. Just you talking to a poll. I wonder how much discussion would be had?

Eryl FaunaAug 14, 20182 votes

[deleted]

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

you just put your downvote into a sentence.

I did more than that. I shared my reasoning for the downvote. AKA no hypocrisy.

Eryl FaunaAug 14, 20181 votes

[deleted]

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

I haven't forgotten my point. We've been proving it every time we talk. There has been more discussion between just us two than between the people whom voted and left.

Eryl FaunaAug 14, 20181 votes

[deleted]

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

Well you have lied in just about every comment. That does sound like an uncomfortable position. I fight lies with truth. It wasn't an amazing feeling but it certainly wasn't uncomfortable.

theChibiTinaAug 14, 20181 votes

I don't know for sure, but what I think op is getting at is that they want people to reply with their reasoning and counter argument instead of just voting and leaving because they just don't like what was said and they don't want they're mind changed. They think their inherently correct and anyone who disagrees with them doesn't deserve the time of day. This isn't true with all down voters, but it does happen a lot. Some down voters won't state their case because the case has already been made and it's the poster that is stubborn and won't see others point of view.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

That's.. actually the point of thread. You're specifically misusing your downvote if you're using it to mark disagreement.

Since it's obvious you haven't bothered to read the board guidelines, here's the guideline regarding voting:

Upvotes and downvotes are intrinsically tied to how threads and comments are perceived. It’s easy to simply downvote something you disagree with, and upvote things that support your views. We can do better. Consider upvoting thoughtful discussions and comments, even if they disagree with your perception of things. The more valuable conversation we have on the boards and the more that conversation is recognized as a good contribution to the community, the better everyone’s board experience will be.

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20182 votes

Why are you so upset about virtual internet points that don't do anything?

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-08-14T06:38:16.855+0000)

Why are you so upset about virtual internet points that don't do anything?

How can you possibly claim they do nothing?

The forum filters according to vote.

Besides, if they really DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, why keep useless code?

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-08-14T08:05:16.132+0000)

How can you possibly claim they do nothing?

The forum filters according to vote.

Besides, if they really DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, why keep useless code?

The forums only filters according to votes on the Hot page.

On the Recent page, I see plenty of posts with -20 downvotes or something.

If you don't like this, just don't set it to "Hot".

As for keeping useless code, I think it's because liking/disliking has just always been a thing since the Internet's conception.

Facebook has it, Reddit has it, Youtube has it...

Why should the forums be any different?

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

The forums only filters according to votes on the Hot page.

Is that not some thing? That is a thing. It does some thing.

As for keeping useless code, I think it's because liking/disliking has just always been a thing since the Internet's conception.

Not the internet I was on. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or ignorant.

Facebook has it, Reddit has it, Youtube has it...

Internet conception predates all those websites.

Why should the forums be any different?

Well for starters, you tube is a website for sharing videos. The goal of a forum is not to share videos.

Why be different than face book and reddit? Because they aren't perfect.

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T08:40:22.865+0000)

Is that not some thing? That is a thing. It does some thing.

That is not the same thing.

If you don't want posts to be filtered by votes, don't be on the Hot page.

That's an error on your part.

Not the internet I was on. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or ignorant.

Internet conception predates all those websites.

I'm being ignorant.

My point is that likes/dislikes has existed for several years so completely getting rid of it now seems odd.

Well for starters, you tube is a website for sharing videos. The goal of a forum is not to share videos.

The goal of a forum is to share opinions and thoughts.

As are videos.

The websites' goal is the same, it's just a different format and different topics being discussed.

Why be different than face book and reddit? Because they aren't perfect.

And the League of Legends forums is suddenly going to become "perfect" by removing Upvotes/Downvotes?

Perfection is an illusion. It's impossible to perfect something because it can always be improved upon.

You shouldn't try to chase after perfection. It will only leave you disappointed.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

That is not the same thing.

No one said it was. You said it was NOTHING. I said it was SOME THING. You probably read it as SAME THING.

My point is that likes/dislikes has existed for several years so completely getting rid of it now seems odd.

Thank you for better explaining your view. I can't agree though. Extreme version of your argument: Slavery existed for thousands of years, why bother getting rid of it now?

The websites' goal is the same, it's just a different format and different topics being discussed.

I respectfully disagree that youtube is after quality discussions. You can completely block all comments on your video. That's not having a discussion.

And the League of Legends forums is suddenly going to become "perfect" by removing Upvotes/Downvotes?

Nope. My goal isn't perfection either. I was simply giving an example of why it's ok to be different.

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T09:53:47.538+0000)

No one said it was. You said it was NOTHING. I said it was SOME THING. You probably read it as SAME THING.

I did. Apologies.

What I meant to say is that it does nothing unless you're on the Hot page.

It only means, as you elegantly put it, SOMETHING, if you're on the Hot page.

So just don't be on the Hot page.

Thank you for better explaining your view. I can't agree though. Extreme version of your argument: Slavery existed for thousands of years, why bother getting rid of it now?

I don't find the comparison fitting.

Slavery made the lives of people in real life living hell. People starved, were abused, and worked to death.

Virtual internet points don't.

I respectfully disagree that youtube is after quality discussions. You can completely block all comments on your video. That's not having a discussion.

I'm certain that holding a discussion was what the original intention was.

What it has degenerated into now is a whole nother story.

Nope. My goal isn't perfection either. I was simply giving an example of why it's ok to be different.

How is your goal that it's okay to be different when you don't want people to be able to agree or disagree?

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

I don't find the comparison fitting.

Slavery made the lives of people in real life living hell. People starved, were abused, and worked to death.

Virtual internet points don't.

I'm not comparing slavery and internet points. I'm saying improvement requires change.

How is your goal that it's okay to be different when you don't want people to be able to agree or disagree?

Lol. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand. There are other ways to express yourself other than through a vote system. Not only do I want people to agree/disagree, I want them to explain why.

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T10:48:17.436+0000)

I'm not comparing slavery and internet points. I'm saying improvement requires change.

But who says the system needs improvement right now?

Lol. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand. There are other ways to express yourself other than through a vote system.

There are, but do you want these "other ways" to be the only ways?

Going back to all other sites still having this feature.

Not only do I want people to agree/disagree, I want them to explain why.

That seems more like you whining about your posts getting downvoted.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

But who says the system needs improvement right now?

Well, when your best argument for keeping a feature is "it's been there for a long time".....

There are, but do you want these "other ways" to be the only ways?

No. So long as Riot is using a good implementation.

Going back to all other sites still having this feature.

3 social media sites hardly equals all websites. And so fucking what. If you want a reddit style forum, how about you go to www.reddit.com? Quit trying to argue based on popularity votes. It's fucking annoying to everyone that can think for themselves.

Not only do I want people to agree/disagree, I want them to explain why.

That seems more like you whining about your posts getting downvoted.

So, OTHER PEOPLE TALKING = ME WHINING. Bugger off. You've already served a purpose I don't need to talk to you anymore.

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=mlm olo mlm,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=LjZdYLh6,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:24:24.866+0000)

Well, when your best argument for keeping a feature is "it's been there for a long time".....

I find that adequate enough reason.

No. So long as Riot is using a good implementation.

"Good" is subjective.

You can't just take what you find "good" as the universal truth.

3 social media sites hardly equals all websites.

I never claimed they did.

And so fucking what. If you want a reddit style forum, how about you go to www.reddit.com?

If you can't handle some green and red numbers on a screen, maybe you shouldn't be here.

Quit trying to argue based on popularity votes. It's fucking annoying to everyone that can think for themselves.

Now that's where opinions start to come into play.

So, OTHER PEOPLE TALKING = ME WHINING. Bugger off. You've already served a purpose I don't need to talk to you anymore.

I love how prideful you are.

Keep living in your bubble of never being wrong and just dismissing people when they don't agree to everything you say.

AeroWaffleAug 14, 20182 votes

Downvotes/Upvotes have a place because it's better than making either useless comments or comments that have already been said.

If someone makes a sarcastic/inflammatory quip and/or makes a comments brings nothing meaningful to the discussion, downvoting is clearly the better alternative to replying back with my own useless comment.

On the flipside if someone makes a comment or post that I agree with where I have nothing meaningful to add that hasn't already been talking about, replying with, "I agree" is a unnecessary waste of space that can clutter up a thread if a bunch of people are replying in the same way. Upvote allows the thread to remain clutter free while still letting my voice heard that I agree with something.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

Downvotes/Upvotes have a place because it's better than making either useless comments or comments that have already been said.

Over here in reality, there are more than two possibilities. How about a third option where no one votes and no one posts useless content? I want to strive for that possibility.

If someone makes a sarcastic/inflammatory quip and/or makes a comments brings nothing meaningful to the discussion, downvoting is clearly the better alternative to replying back with my own useless comment.

I don't understand you there. Why not ignore useless comments or post useful comments?

Upvote allows the thread to remain clutter free while still letting my voice heard that I agree with something.

I understand your point of view. However, why should anyone care what you agree with? Also, what you agree with is out of my control. It's a waste of time pursuing others agreement.

AeroWaffleAug 14, 20182 votes

Over here in reality, there are more than two possibilities. How about a third option where no one votes and no one posts useless content? I want to strive for that possibility.

You want a third option that only limits it to one option for comments? No thanks. People are still going to post useless content.

I don't understand you there. Why not ignore useless comments or post useful comments?

If that's your reasoning, why are you not ignoring downvotes/upvotes?

I understand your point of view. However, why should anyone care what you agree with? Also, what you agree with is out of my control. It's a waste of time pursuing others agreement.

Then this entire thread is pointless. You simultaneously demand that votes be removed because you care about +1/-1, but demand that no one else care about comments.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

You want a third option that only limits it to one option for comments? No thanks. People are still going to post useless content.

The point was, there are more than the two possibilities that you listed. It's not an "either or" situation.

If that's your reasoning, why are you not ignoring downvotes/upvotes?

I'm not you. My reasoning does not affect yours. Why don't you ignore useless comments and post useful comments?

Then this entire thread is pointless. You simultaneously demand that votes be removed because you care about +1/-1, but demand that no one else care about comments.

Huh? For starters, "demand" is a pretty far stretch for what I have done here. Quote me demanding votes get removed.

I don't care about +1/-1. That is why I would be fine with them removed.

I also don't get this "demand that no one else care about comments". I'm explicitly lobbying for more thoughtful comments.

AeroWaffleAug 14, 20182 votes

The point was, there are more than the two possibilities that you listed. It's not an "either or" situation.

And you're asking for a tool that people use to show their opinion on a comment/thread to be removed. You're asking for possibilities to be removed.

I'm not you. My reasoning does not affect yours. Why don't you ignore useless comments and post useful comments?

I mean, I'll just say it again. Why are you not ignoring downvotes/upvotes? The answer is because you choose not to. I believe useless or un-constructive comments/threads deserve to be known as such. Popular opinion plays a huge role when there is no right opinion. If someone says, "Bacon tastes great" and gets more upvotes than downvotes (provided they were on topic), the reader can infer that more people agree that bacon tastes great. Along that reasoning, if someone makes a design suggestion that more people felt like it was a bad idea than a good idea, the votes as well as the comments can infer that.

Or, such as in the player behavior section, if a player claims, "I've been banned unfairly!" and posts logs that has most readers believing it to be a fair ban, their votes would reflect as such.

Huh? For starters, "demand" is a pretty far stretch for what I have done here. Quote me demanding votes get removed.

You imply it heavily.

I don't care about +1/-1. That is why I would be fine with them removed.

If you don't care about them, then it should be fine to stay then.

mlm olo mlmAug 14, 20181 votes

And you're asking for a tool that people use to show their opinion on a comment/thread to be removed.

Actually, I'm in favor of personalized algorithms. Get results relevant to your individual personality.

I believe useless or un-constructive comments/threads deserve to be known as such.

What constitutes "useless" is extremely personal. Besides, the more people you invite to vote, the less influential your opinion is.

I don't know where to go with your popular opinion point. Other than, you are assuming everyone votes for the same reasons. Which I think is an especially unfair assumption because the league forums doesn't label the arrows.

You imply it heavily.

Imply =/= demand. It's ok though, I forgive you.

If you don't care about them, then it should be fine to stay then.

Except, they have a negative impact on the things I do care about. Namely, quality discussions.

S0kaXAug 14, 20181 votes

~~upvoted~~

mzicioAug 14, 20181 votes

I agree tbh, the vote system is stupid.

EvilDustManAug 14, 20181 votes

Also, can we get a mod to file a toxic name complaint? Took me a couple looks.

HungryAngry2SPPAug 14, 20181 votes

I didn't read what you wrote up there, but i do not like the title...downvoted....or maybe upvoted...I don't know rolls D&D dices 6! Upvoted!

ModPrandineAug 14, 2018

This thread is going nowhere and is turning into a "insult everyone who disagrees with you" fest. Because of that this thread is now locked. In the future if you disagree with someone then do so without resorting to insults and name-calling.

Feel free to contact us at the Moderation Discord or at Discuss the Boards for any questions, comments or concerns about this. Thank you and have a good day.