RIOT needs to actually LISTEN to its community

Aletheiacracy·Aug 2, 2019·3 votes·3,768 views

Boards is a place where people come to discuss issues. There's also the memes and games thread but otherwise, people want to discuss issues and solutions. I've seen plenty of great ideas from the Boards. But RIOT seems to ignore them and when they do pay attention it's like they feel the need to pioneer their own solution which creates more issues.

We play the game. We see the ins and outs and for the most part, we have the appropriate solutions.

RIOT needs to just be more modest, and accept when the community has a good idea AND JUST DO IT.

We don't need people racking their heads over an issue to create a solution that was already given to them.

RIOT, excuse the assumption but are your jobs in such dire jeopardy that you really feel the need to pioneer solutions? Are you afraid you'll lose your jobs if you take ideas from the community? What is it? The players have a lot of experience and know what they're talking about. So when a good idea comes along and gets positive feedback, I feel like it's your job to really look into the ideas we come up with.

I saw a champion concept on Boards for a Magic Cat that got great feedback, and noticed the champion Yuumi was released years after with essentially the same core idea but different lore and kit. But I also noticed there was no Red Comments on the champion concept page. But with the amount of views it got, and the amount of support, it's unlikely that Riot wasn't a little inspired.

RIOT- stop cherry picking ideas then trying to copyright them as your own. Just stop abusing the boards and actually give credit to the players doing a better job than you.

39 Comments

DynikusAug 2, 20196 votes

We play the game. We see the ins and outs and for the most part, we have the appropriate solutions.

Playing a game doesn't make you a game designer, and you probably don't actually have an appropriate solution for most things unless you actually understand game design.

The players have a lot of experience and know what they're talking about.

A majority of the time, no they don't. At all.

I saw a champion concept on Boards for a Magic Cat that got great feedback, and noticed the champion Yuumi was released years after with essentially the same core idea but different lore and kit.

The idea of a magical cat isn't exactly unique. A random board post from years ago likely had no inspiration for as generic of a concept as a magical cat, especially if their lore and kit were completely different.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

I understand how game design works, actually. "unless you actually understand game design" you probably shouldn't try saying what the knowledge is good for. Now it seems like you don't understand game design because you actually think game design is always an issue. Please just educate yourself before copy&pasting what other people say about specific issues, or at least read more carefully. I even said "for the most part" in the statement you quoted but you're responding to it like I'm speaking about everyone.

I've seen plenty of stupid ideas too but I'm not talking about the stupid ideas. I'm talking about good ideas people have that get unnoticed or ignored by Riot.

So let's focus on the people coming out with good ideas for the rest of this discussion please. God people really suck the sanity out of me.

rujitraAug 2, 20195 votes

People tried to discuss with you in your most recent thread on Discuss the Boards. You simply deleted your comments and refused to respond. You refused to accept people disagreeing with you and giving you logic.

Riot does not listen to the boards because virtually none of the concerns or solutions on the boards are backed up by logic or evidence.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

What are you talking about? Your Boards account needs to be banned because you're always wandering around talking about irrelevant nonsense.

I'm not talking about "my most recent thread on Discuss the Boards" so take your pompous attitude somewhere else.

rujitraAug 2, 20193 votes

That thread is merely an example of why Riot isn't going to listen to the boards or respond, as is this thread.

You refuse to discuss. You do not respond to concerns about your ideas. You don't provide any logic or evidence for your ideas. And quite frankly, no you do not know what you're talking about just because you've played this game before.

Show me one thread with a good idea that's backed up by evidence and logic from the past 2 weeks. One. Thread. It'll be hard I bet.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

You're not trying to have a discussion, so save it for someone stupid enough to buy it. You literally came to my discussion to post about another discussion. And frankly, I don't know why your comment hasn't been removed because it's clearly harassment under the "naming and shaming". Don't bring up past discussions for one thing. And if you want to discuss the actual post then go ahead. But since all you're doing is trying to attack my character, then don't expect a productive discussion out of me.

People LIKE YOU are the problem with this community, not the people who have to put up with you. The people that have to deal with you are apparently the problem. No. YOU are the problem.

rujitraAug 2, 20193 votes

You are deflecting.

You do not discuss. You do not have any of these good ideas. And you can't show me a thread from the past two weeks with a good idea. You're insulting me because you know your argument has been shut down.

I have discussed the post, asking you to provide a link to one thread in the past two weeks with a good idea supported by logic and evidence.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/bjZI8g6g-if-fill-is-your-primary-role-the-secondary-role-should-let-us-choose-what-role-we-dont-want

rujitraAug 2, 20192 votes

As I suspect, this has nothing to do with the "greater good" like you tried to make it seem. This is you selfishly being unhappy that your own bad ideas are not implemented.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/bjZI8g6g-if-fill-is-your-primary-role-the-secondary-role-should-let-us-choose-what-role-we-dont-want

And I'm not talking about just myself. I'm talking about everyone. In one of the comments in this thread I posted 4 links that had the same idea. You just want to hate me. Sorry the liberal agenda got to you.

rujitraAug 2, 20192 votes

And your idea provides no evidence for how this would improve matchmaking or do anything other than make you feel better.

There's no reason for you to be able to flag a "do not fill" role, as that's opposite to the point of the fill role.

AletheiacracyAug 6, 20192 votes

If you want to discuss that thread then go on that thread. Like I said, nothing you're saying has anything to do with the point of the OP. I never said anything about MY posts not receiving credit- you just decided to read it that way out of some personal prejudice against me. Actually read my post and it's pretty clear I'm talking about the general community. It was someone else's post that prompted me to make this discussion because they had a lot of attention and positive feedback but no Red Comments anywhere.

rujitraAug 6, 20192 votes

I have asked you to provide one post that "should receive credit" from Riot - i.e. has evidence, has a valid opinion, has not been addressed before.

You provided your thread as the "evidence", and I told you why it's incorrect. You have not provided any evidence that "riot not responding" is a problem.

AletheiacracyAug 3, 20191 votes

[deleted]

rujitraAug 3, 20191 votes

I don't though.

Teh SongAug 2, 20192 votes

The sad reality is that Riot very much needs to not listen to us.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/61wBkImA-player-feedback-is-useless-and-shouldnt-be-used

Community members don't know what they are talking about, and they don't offer good ideas.

rujitraAug 2, 20192 votes

Well, a blanket statement isn't super helpful.

That being said, 99% of it is like this for sure.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

You don't know what you're talking about, according to you as a community member, so why should I care what you think? You see the HUGE hole in your logic buddy? You can't give an opinion that all opinions are shit without realizing you have a shitty opinion. Get it? Don't talk for the whole community.

Teh SongAug 2, 20191 votes

The premise I present isn't an opinion of the game, it's an understanding of people and human psychology. In short, my thread explains why community feedback about LoL isn't worth listening to, but the thread itself is not community feedback and isn't about LoL, so it doesn't fall under that category of things that should be ignored.

The information I relayed isn't even opinion. It's objective factuality about the psychology of our entire species, let alone just the LoL community, as has been being proven by countless psychologists for many years.

rujitraAug 2, 20192 votes

I ask you again to show me a thread that has an idea SUPPORTED BY LOGIC AND EVIDENCE - not a thread you posted that suggests that Riot should do something special just to make you feel better.

You haven't done so yet, because you know trying to do so would be very hard as most of the ideas/concerns on the boards are not based in evidence/logic, and you yourself simply leave a thread or stop responding when you are called out on it. As you did above by the way - I asked multiple times, you posted your thread, then you refuse to respond to me further. This shows that you are being selfish here - it has nothing to do with "community", it has to do with you wanting to run the world.

Oh, and by the way, why is it Riot's fault if a community member posts something and then a Rioter comes up with the same concept at a later time? You have no evidence or proof Riot has taken a concept from the community and used it - but even if they did, they are completely within their rights to do so as they explicitly request players not make concept suggestions to them, and reserve the right to use any that players end up suggesting anyway.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20191 votes

I already did so why are you still here?

Everyone on this just do yourselves a favor and report this troll.

rujitraAug 2, 20192 votes

You did not. The thread you linked does not have any evidence or logic behind why it would be useful to implement beyond "i want it".

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20191 votes

Then you didn't read or are incapable of simple reading comprehension. Bring it up with your teachers.

rujitraAug 2, 20191 votes

You spend virtually all the post explaining how the idea would work, then this:

WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT? Some players choose "FILL" to just get into games quick, knowing they can play almost anywhere. Players usually have at least one role they don't want to play, and if a player is sacrificing one of their choices to be filled wherever, then it seems reasonable to allow us an option to "BAN" a role we absolutely don't want.

When a player picks any two roles, they're already an exception from 3 roles. Let's give "FILL" players an option to at least be protected from playing 1 role.

Your logic is that "if players want to not play a role they should be able to not play that role". Riot has never stated this is a goal, and in fact, it's the opposite. Draft pick is not a mode in which you can "one trick" and be supported by Riot. You are expected to have enough understanding to play any assigned role, and to play what's best for your team - even if that means switching roles/champions with teammates.

So, we're back to the only other evidence/logic in that post - "players picking two roles are excepted from three roles". They aren't though. Autofill exists for this very reason. Further, your suggestion would worsen the problem that makes autofill necessary - because if everyone picks "fill but no support", they will all be exempt from autofill (as they choose to fill), but nobody will be playing support, so the queue times will be ridiculous.

See, you may have provided some "evidence" or "logic", but it's easy to see right past it and contradict it if you sit and think about it. That is the problem with your posts and the majority of posts on this board - you have an opinion and try to justify it as fact, but you refuse to consider all sides of the issue. You simply ignore any evidence/fact that disagrees with you and focus on the one "logical" thing that supports you.

You know who else uses this strategy? Conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, etc.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20191 votes

[deleted]

rujitraAug 2, 20192 votes

Once again you have taken to insulting me instead of actually responding to any of my points. I have discredited your argument, you feel personally attacked by that for some reason.

Please feel free to respond to my points, or to stop insulting me.

KaepersAug 2, 20192 votes

I agree 100%. League could be popular like fortnite - with weekly tournaments guaranteeing players thousands - or millions of dollars. Fortnite is still doing amazing after years of release and they're generating millions of dollars in revenue. And like you said, they're responding to the community like crazy. They give the people what they want and the game is still gaining hundreds of thousands of players.

rujitraAug 2, 20195 votes

Is it really though? Many news articles from this year suggest otherwise.

Fortnite is a fad, and will always be a fad. A battle royale game does not demand interest - it demands fascination. Fascination fades as the "new" of the genre is no more. There is no longer term changes to track - there is no balance shift to refresh a player's interest, there's no new champion/gun/whatever. The possibility for Fortnite to make continual changes in a way that causes them to survive meaningfully for a long time is next to none - where as MOBAs can rework old characters, add new characters or items, etc. continually.

I'd also point out that at least two of those articles reference and discuss how the changes Epic is making based on players' "desires" actually caused player counts and revenue to drop. Listening to players is not always the best move, especially if like the boards here the players don't know what the fuck they're talking about and provide no evidence or logic.

KaepersAug 2, 20191 votes

Yeah I 100% disagree. Have you ever even played, or seen a Fortnite video? There's literally something new every week/month. And that article is from january... Also.. if you haven't been on twitch, Fortnite has SOOO MANY streamers. Thousands of people trying to get into the streaming business. Thousands of people have 0 viewers - so yeah, it's a good thing streamer count has dropped 5%. They've gotten an increase in 50 million players. They add new gadgets that change the game every month or so. The grappler, chug splash, air strike, all new additions and all very interesting.

Secondly, "caused their revenue to drop".... They make billions.... They aren't afraid to experiment and the game is as popular as ever. You can't go outside or shop without seeing something fortnite related. And they've seen millions of increase in players worldwide years after release. League has remained the same as it's been for years as long as I can remember. So what? They've added a couple champs and a few items. Riot is too afraid to risk their stagnant player base. They are comfortable where they are - which isn't bad. But because of this, League will never be as popular or as fun as Fortnite for the players.

3 big things:

Battlepass - The battlepass in Fortnite is huge and for just 10 dollars, You get plenty skins, and new missions/challenges. It also pays for itself after a bit of gameplay, so you earn enough in game currency to buy the next season's battlepass.
Ranked gameplay - Ranked in Fortnite has allowed ANYONE to make it to the competitive playing field. You don't need to be mechanically good or anything. If you have a few things down in Fortnite, you can still make it to the stages.
Gameplay is actually consistently fun - Something that league will always have is.... the first 10-15-20 minutes or so... Farm minions in lane and try not to die... The most boring thing ever. 15 minutes down the drain just from farming. This used to be a problem in Fortnite, then people complained. So they added more "cities" and more methods of transportation - including a slipstream to let you travel across the map quickly.

Listening to the player base has landed Billions in Fortnite revenue. So sure, whatever you say.

Apex lived for one month, then died. Want to know why? For one month they didn't add anything new or respond to any of the players critiques. Fortnite has been out for 2 years and is still gaining millions of players. Everything you said is false according to the evidence man

rujitraAug 2, 20193 votes

Battle Royales are more "streamable" than other genres because they're fast paced and have continual actions.

They don't make billions in profit by the way, that number is inaccurate.

And the "gadgets" don't change the primary game mechanics as they are in MOBAs and other games.

But fine, if you want to consider Fortnite a good example of "listening to community feedback", go ahead. Doesn't change the fact that they actually get logic based feedback, unlike 99.99999999% of feedback about League.

KaepersAug 2, 20191 votes

Yeah good point. Some of the things I see people offer in League are really bad ideas. And you're still wrong. The gadgets do change the primary game mechanics. Every season, fights are much different. The shotguns are new. Shockwave grenades are huge right now, which completely change how fights play out. Shadow bombs completely change the game so people who aren't even good builders can literally win late game just by using a shadow bomb. The grappler was huge when it was out because it completely changed build fights/highground.

You really have not played Fortnite at all and experienced any of it. But still, even if they aren't profiting in billions, they're generating billions in revenue.

Unfortunately, Riot will never be that successful because they are too comfortable with stagnation and have done nothing new/exciting for the game in years.

MakarakarnAug 2, 20192 votes

Yeah no..

You want to know why not every game company listens to every little thing the community says? Because the community isn't always right. Most of the time 2 thing meddle with opinions on the boards, those being 1. not actually knowing what they're talking about, and 2. Bias. Lots and lots of bias.

AletheiacracyAug 2, 20192 votes

That's simply not true. Franchises thrive off community feedback, and when that feedback gets ignored the community disappears. Take "Runescape" for example. Community feedback provided better gaming experiences until Jagex refused to revert certain changes they made which the community had problems with. Then before you know it Runescape falls off. They release OSRS and old fans come out of the woodwork, OSRS falls off because by that time it's too late and we all moved on.

Please refrain from making general arguments just to be contradictive. I understand many opinions are bad, but let's focus on the fact that good ideas get ignored and carry the discussion from there.

MakarakarnAug 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's simply not true. Franchises thrive off community feedback, and when that feedback gets ignored the community disappears. Take "Runescape" for example. Community feedback provided better gaming experiences until Jagex refused to revert certain changes they made which the community had problems with. Then before you know it Runescape falls off. They release OSRS and old fans come out of the woodwork, OSRS falls off because by that time it's too late and we all moved on.

Please refrain from making general arguments just to be contradictive. I understand many opinions are bad, but let's focus on the fact that good ideas get ignored and carry the discussion from there.

Yes it really is. I can say with a 100% certainty that not EVERY person who gives their opinion on the game is correct/unbiased. I didn't say that the company should take ZERO community feedback, I said it shouldn't take ALL of it, because not ALL of the community is RIGHT. Riot actually DOES take feedback a lot of the time.

AletheiacracyAug 3, 20191 votes

Okay... Did you read the OP? I didn't say everyone has good ideas. I said there ARE good ideas in the community that get ignored.

Imperial PandaaAug 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

RIOT- stop cherry picking ideas then trying to copyright them as your own. Just stop abusing the boards and actually give credit to the players doing a better job than you.

4.5. Can I submit ideas for improving the Game to Riot? (Please don’t. If you do anyways, we’ll have the absolute right to use it forever.) We value your feedback on the Riot Services, but please don’t submit any creative ideas, suggestions or materials to us (collectively, “Unsolicited Ideas”). This policy is aimed at avoiding potential misunderstandings or disputes when the Riot Services might seem similar to Unsolicited Ideas that people submit.

If you submit Unsolicited Ideas anyway, then you grant us a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, sublicenseable, transferable, assignable, non-exclusive, and royalty-free right and license to use, reproduce, distribute, adapt, modify, translate, create derivative works of, publicly perform, publicly display, digitally perform, make, have made, sell, offer for sale, and import your Unsolicited Ideas, including all copyrights, trademarks, trade secrets, patents, industrial rights, and all other intellectual and proprietary rights related thereto, in any media now known or hereafter developed, for any purpose whatsoever, commercial or otherwise, including giving the Unsolicited Ideas to others, without any compensation to you. To the extent necessary, you agree that you undertake to execute and deliver any and all documents and perform any and all actions necessary or desirable to ensure that the rights to use the Unsolicited Ideas granted to us as specified above are valid, effective, and enforceable. You also give up any claim that any use by us or our licensees of your Unsolicited Ideas violates any of your rights, including moral rights, privacy rights, rights to publicity, proprietary or other rights, and rights to credit for the material or ideas set for therein.

AletheiacracyAug 6, 20191 votes

Interesting.

Come up with a quick champion concept, doesn't need to be anything spectacular but just to see what happens- Submit a champion concept to Riot in the form of a ticket then observe their response.

I don't remember what they say verbatim, but it's along the lines of: ' we encourage the community to share ideas, please post this in concepts & creations on the boards '

GatekeeperTDSAug 3, 20191 votes

I think you're confusing "listening" with "obeying." You're forgetting that people asking for something is a good reason to NOT do it, the same as it might be a good reason TO do it. Half the posts on player behavior are toxic asshats bitching and whining that they want more chances to be racist douchebags in game. Ain't gonna happen. Three times a week we get the, "durr hurr I don't want people to ban my hover." This shit's never going to happen no matter how much people squawk about it.

Riot does not have to implement every hair-brained idea that every player comes up with. People who participate on the boards, Reddit, or wherever, are an extremely, extremely small fraction of the people who play the game.

Believe me, Riot is much better than you and me at running tests and panels to figure out what features people want and if those features are healthy for the product.

Let's pretend you own a restaurant. You know your customer base. You have 10 regulars who want meatloaf on the menu, begging, pleading, asking for it in your suggestion box constantly. Nobody else is clamoring for meatloaf, you don't want to stock the ingredients for it, and you've perhaps tried it before and it failed. Guess what - you're not going to be serving meatloaf at your restaurant no matter how much those 10 people bitch and complain.