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Current thoughts on balance of TFT

asamu·7/4/2019, 11:32:05 AM·18 votes·10,684 views

Mostly just a list of what I think needs buffs/nerfs/changes currently. Overall, I think the mode is great, and I don't really have any major complaints.

Champions: Needing buffs: FioraFiora - base HP and DPS are both too low, and her being so bad is a problem for both of her synergies. MordekaiserMordekaiser - More base HP, Armor, or a lower cost for his ability needed. PoppyPoppy - Still needs a lower cost on her ability or better melee DPS; her attack speed is too slow to get her ability off reasonably consistently, and her base DPS is extremely low. EliseElise - She's still bad. Her base stats are way too low, and her transformation/spiders don't make up for it even if she gets her ability off. Up her dps/HP. She has worse stats than most of the 1-cost units at baseline. Edit: She's been reduced to 1 cost on the PTR with no other changes. It feels appropriate; she's still not a high priority. VeigarVeigar - I think the real issue with him is that his ability only hits one target, and his extremely weak autos don't scale with level. (Edit: After seeing veigar 1-shotting units repeatedly when stacked with a few items, I think the issue is his other stats or how often he can use the ability. His ability does plenty of damage with sorc buff, but his autos are worthless, his HP is extremely low, and his ability is single-target, so there are always better targets for stacking items.) ShyvanaShyvana - Base HP/armor are a bit too low, and her ability has a high cost, so it's a bit too hard to get value from it. She gets picked for dragon/shapeshifter synergy, but that's because Aurelion sol with magic immunity is so good, and shapeshifters is one of the best synergies. AhriAhri - base stats could be improved a bit; her HP is a bit too low. Her synergies make her alright for certain comps, but it never feels particularly good picking her. LissandraLissandra - Again, base stats are a bit too low. Elementalist synergy is OP atm, so she gets picked some, but... ShenShen - Just needs a bit of starting mana so he can get his ability off a bit more often. KatarinaKatarina - She enables Imperial synergy I guess, but is a bit lacking outside of that due to low hp; 450 at rank 1 is a bit too low for any 3 star unit, even an assassin. Her ability is incredibly strong if it goes off and there are targets for it to hit, but... on the somewhat rare occasions it goes off at all, there are often no targets in range.

Needing Nerfs: Gnar Sejuani ChogathGnar, Sej, and Cho - Their abilities are just a bit too good; AoE CC is incredibly strong. I think the stun durations could be reduced by .5s or so for all 3. DravenDraven - This really is the league of Draven. His single target dps is a bit too high due to spinning axes, especially considering blademaster and imperial synergies adding to that. NidaleeNidalee - Maybe. She's currently the strongest 1-cost unit by a fairly significant margin, and also has great synergies. AurelionSolAurelion Sol - Maybe. Currently the go-to item stack unit for sorcs, because the ability does so much AOE damage, and the magic immunity from dragon synergy makes him a bit too difficult to take down. BrandBrand - Again, very powerful ability that goes off fairly consistently with fantastic synergy. It might just be because of how strong the golem is. If elementalist synergy gets nerfed, he'd likely be fine.

Most of the 4 cost units are probably a bit too strong, and the only ones you can't either just pick to throw into a team for front line or a powerful ability, or to build a comp around from no preexisting support other than decent items are Akali and Kindred. Leona is in a good place, and I think a bit underrated by a lot of players, being very tanky and having a fantastic ability, but without being so strong that she's put onto the field pretty much every time even without synergy like Cho/Sej/Gnar, who are a bit more threatening and have stronger synergies; she's pretty much always worth picking up and putting out if you roll her early and don't need other synergies, but she's not a champion you build around or roll for consistently. I'm not sure if this is really a problem, but synergies should probably be a bit more meaningful at the point when they're being picked, and a 2-star 3 cost should pretty much always be better than a 1-star 4 cost of similar type without synergies.

Items: Items should be given out more equally and consistently throughout the game. This is already being resolved by changes on the PTR, though currently it seems to be bugged and creeps are getting item buffs like GA and red buff that can make them significantly more difficult than they would be normally.

Needing Buffs: item 3285Luden's - Well, It's bugged atm, not doing as much extra damage as it says; with that fixed, it'd probably be good, possibly OP on some characters, unless it only works on the first hit of an ability, in which case, it'd just be maybe decent on some characters that can cast their ability frequently without many items, like Veigar, but the tool-tip also should clarify if that's how it's supposed to work. item 3146Gunblade - 25% healing for damage isn't great compared to other bonuses, and the stats are awkward for TFT, and both items have far better combine options; I can't see this being very good on much other than maybe a stacked ASol with a Shojin or something to cast constantly. item 3137Cursed Blade - Proc chance is a bit too low for it to be worth it. Personally, I'd like the item changed completely, because it's too unreliable as is, and the effect is really hard to judge/not fantastic, as usually units that are getting attacked are going to die quickly regardless. item 3131Sword of the Divine - Again, just a really awkward effect due to unreliability. I think it'd be better as every 2-3 attacks is a guaranteed crit or something. item 3026Guardian Angel - Again, an awkward item for the mode. I think it can have a place on certain fron tline units that are expected to die and have good abilities, where the revive might help them go off or tank for longer. item 3087Statikk Shiv - 100 damage every 3rd attack is pretty weak in comparison to something like Hydra that's doing 200 damage on every attack. I think the damage could be raised to 150-200 without issue. It's sort of ironic that the two best items combine into one of the worst.

Needing Nerfs: item 3094Rapid Fire Cannon - Extra range and never missing is too good, especially paired with so much attack speed when attack speed is the best stat. This item also completely nullifies Yordle synergy. item 3161Spear of Shojin - Too much mana gain. The bug fix was certainly noticeable, but it could maybe use a bit more. item 3748Titanic Hydra - Maybe. The cleave damage can get pretty crazy. item 3124Rageblade - The attack speed stacks a bit too quickly.

Synergies: Needing changes:

  • Nobles: The 6 noble buff is strong, and the 3 noble buff is strong at the start, but 6 nobles is too hard to get, and 3 nobles stops being good too early to stick with. I'd really like to see the effect be weaker baseline, but scale at 2/4/6, or affect all nobles at 3, but be significantly weaker, and have the 6 noble buff remain the same, so nobles are a more realistic option to go for from early in the game, rather than something you only go for if you started with it and roll/pick an early kayle.

Situational/possibly needing buffs or changes:

  • Knights: suffers from Poppy and Morde being a bit weak right now, and the damage scaling for other units making it less useful as the game progresses, but it's fairly strong early against non-assassins. The only way I could see to change it would be making it a % reduction to physical damage taken so it doesn't lose so much value later.
  • (Edit) Demons: 40% proc rate at 2 is enough to pretty much always proc it before abilities go off on targets that are being attacked, so there's no real reason to go for more than that. IMO, The damage from the mana burn should scale instead of the proc rate.

Needing Nerfs:

  • Elementalist: The golem is a bit too good right now, especially early on if someone lucks into the units early. Maybe change to a 2/4 synergy with a much weaker golem from having just 2. This would make it harder to fit the powerful golem into late game compositions. It's kind of silly seeing people throw 3 1-star elementalists into their composition for the golem in the late game when they have much stronger champion options they could be putting in.
  • Shapeshifters: Maybe. It's extremely strong.
  • Dragons: Immunity to magic damage is a bit much. It's a bit too strong against certain compositions.
  • Imperials: Draven, Darius, and Swain are already good without the synergy, and doubling damage on Draven is a bit much.

I think the other synergies are mostly fine. Yordle synergy would be fantastic if not for RFC. Assassin and Demon synergies are made awkward without items because they lack good tank units for the front line.

Other I'd like more time on the first selection carousel, just another 5 seconds or so, with it ending once everyone gets a unit if it happens before that. People not getting to pick because they go for units that then get taken by another person happens a bit too often, and it's not always easy to tell who got the unit.

Also, please port players out or block them from entering the carousel area for all carousel rounds after they've chosen their item; sometimes players that already have their item sit on the carousel and block vision of a unit/item, or nudge a player into something they didn't want (collision should also be removed). It's pretty frustrating to pick up a unit you couldn't see when you were going for a different one, or to be pushed into another item when you didn't know that could happen so didn't keep more distance from units when moving towards what you wanted.

More unit stats should be visible. Please show damage/attack speed/Armor/MR and what armor/MR actually do (presumably it's pretty much the same as normal LoL) in the game.

30 Comments

zepdrix7/4/2019, 12:49:40 PM3 votes

Agree on most points.

I'm really surprised that you didn't say anything about Glacial though. I personally thing Glacial needs a serious nerf - some type of diminishing return when freezing the same target repeatedly.

ChaosReyn7/4/2019, 2:24:35 PM2 votes

You're not going to cover Glacial at all?

I don't mind it being a chance to freeze. But the problem is in the length for me, and the fact that right as it ends, you can still be immediately frozen again. Best change to make would be to either lower the stun to 1s, OR keep it at 2s, but make a timer that the same unit cannot be frozen more than x times every y seconds. It feels bad when you go up against 6 glacial and 6 of your 7 units just absolutely do not get to play the game. It feels even worse earlier on in the game when you've taken out everyone but Ashe, and she just freezes/kills 2 or 3 people on her own with a bunch of low%chance glacial procs in a row.

Nea1047/4/2019, 5:52:56 PM2 votes

Sorry, where is Pyke? Pyke

Shonjl7/4/2019, 8:09:14 PM2 votes

Off the top of my head, I would like these changes done.

  1. Make items no longer RNG. People shouldn't win games because they got more items. Make it consistant, First 3 minion waves give one each, so everyone should have 4 items total. Make Krugs and Raptors give like 2 each. Make Dragon Give 2. Make what items you get be random but how many you get should be the same. I personally wouldn't feel nearly as bad if I say nonstop shit items vs got no items at all.

  2. CC needs a cooldown on its windows. Glacial is a nice example but its all CC in general. You shouldn't be able to perma cc units or even entire teams. Perfect examples being Cho, Sej, Gnar, Pyke can cc your entire team, and repeatedly at that.

  3. Some comps and champs need big nerfs. Assassins is a widely hated group since it takes next to no brains at all to do, every single unit is cheap, the most expensive one is Akali if you even need her. There is a reason people consider it a free win class. Get 6 Sins and you will win 90% of your games. I'd say the 3 bonus is fine at 150% damage, the 6 one needs a heavy nerf. I'd say 200-250% damage, 350 is too damn high.

I already basically explained the issue with Glacial in #2, another is elemenalist. Golem needs to be tiered better for how powerful it is. Instead of it being a 3 and done deal, make it a 2/4/6 deal with the golem getting stronger the more you are willing to put into it. For champs I'd say the issue is moreso the items so I will wait on this.

  1. Items should all be unique. No more of this bullshit 3 shojins on ASol or Brand, or Guinsoo on Vayne and win shit. That would fix a lot of issues right there. Another thing would be nerfing specific items. Easiest 2 are hands down the two I mentioned, Guinsoo and Shojin. Guinsoo should have a cap so it isn't stupidly busted. Make it stack up to 10 times or something, that way it maxes out at 30% from passive. Shojin honestly I think would be fine if its unique, since 1 shojin on a champ usually isn't gamebreaking, its when there is more than 1 and champs are ulting every other attack.

On the flip side, some items need SERIOUS BUFFING. GA is basically a joke, brought back to 500 hp? Wooo you die in like 2 hits when you come back. I'd say it should bring you back to 50% hp, at least you might do something in the process. Static Shiv is outright inferior to Titanic. 100 damage every 3 hits vs even on a low hp champ, Titanic is doing basically 100 a hit. Sword of the Occult is a meme, I'd say just make it like every 3 hits is a 100% crit. Even then it would kinda be weak still but at least usable. Gunblade and BT need a massive buff since healing for 25% or 50% of your damage means nothing if you die in basically 1-3 hits on anything that isn't a tank.

Cibreca7/4/2019, 1:34:31 PM2 votes

I think you're misunderstanding the tier system. Not all the champs are the same tier--so higher tier means they are rarer, later in the game and should be stronger. Balancing tier 1s with tier 4s is counter-intuitive with the genre. Fiora is supposed to be weaker than Draven; otherwise you'll have the strongest team comps within the first few rolls.

Panthaz897/4/2019, 2:57:11 PM2 votes

T4 units are fine but Sejuani might need a bit less stun time but not only a .5 sec...they are supposed to be strong otherwise you aren't going to work towards them. Shyvana certainly doesn't need a buff just because she only fits into some comps like other Shapeshifters but Elise she is very strong when she can transform. Nidalee is hardly anything compared to Garen who is magic immune when spinning making him by far the best 1 cost.

Keldjor7/4/2019, 4:05:54 PM1 votes

Limit items to 1 per champ. Watching a fully stacked Ranged or Kass destroying an entire team while they have a massive seizure is nuts or a Pyke non-stop stunning entire teams from 3x stack items

Where's my Rammus unit at?

CurS1VE7/4/2019, 4:46:59 PM1 votes

i agree with almost everything; the veigar post i would say he is actually really really really strong like he doesn't need buffs the guy just deletes 1 target and unless you have a lot of MR (ha) you will die and that's what he does, i mean he hits for like 12k at 2 stars or something crazy like that.

Brand I think is fine, he is really high risk and unless you already are going full elementalist he often is (imo) kind of like a worse Morgana, I'd personally rather have her since she does something similar, similar dmg but she is easier to build around.

The Elementalist in general (including the Rare Anivia) are pretty shit, Brand is the exception. Lissandra isn't even really picked for that trait, she is picked for Glacial which is super strong and that shit is busted lol

I agree about almost everything else tho

Overall if they took your suggestions in general without the Brand and Veigar changes I think that would be good for the Game overall

Tobykachu7/5/2019, 1:45:56 AM1 votes

Gnar needs to lose his 'wild' trait IMO. Wild + Shapeshifter + Dragon + Sorcerer is probably the strongest team comp at the moment and is also one of the easiest to pull off. I feel as though Gnar rounds out this combo too well. Or make it so you need 4 Shapeshifters to get the shapeshifter buff.

TheBrothersGrymm7/5/2019, 2:42:25 AM1 votes

the game is to mcuh rng, i needed 1 vayne, 1 lulu, 1 morde, for them all to be gold, and i rerolled 20 times and didnt see any of them, yea you do that math

gonna flex on u7/4/2019, 12:25:26 PM1 votes

I totally agree with everything you wrote.

Konsequence937/5/2019, 10:06:09 PM1 votes

agreed with fiora def, i add another point of lucian. by the time he dashes and auto's twice. cause theres like some kind of delay its almost pointless, its like he doesnt even have an ulti or dbl attack.

as for tema buffs, noble needs buffed. feels weak when u get all 6 even (and its not easy with kayle being a leggo) glacial needs nerfed and assns/ninja needs nerfed

as for other team builds i cant say as i have not experienced or played them much. but ^ those 3 have experienced the receiving end and played them the most

kaijukitten7/4/2019, 12:45:01 PM1 votes

Really informative and a great breakdown of a lot of the issues the mode faces. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Acekill3r7/4/2019, 1:21:55 PM1 votes

Glacial should just root instead of permastunning teams.

hrooza dota 7/4/2019, 1:27:40 PM1 votes

i wont say much about balancing but i think veiger need better targeting, the one shots you see are mostly because of his ult second effect which insta kill any lower star champion, veiger need to just target those [simply put he was ment to be some sort of counter to legendary/epic champions]

ZaFiReX7/4/2019, 1:57:05 PM1 votes

Nerfs and buffs will happen, it's Riot after all. I'm almost agree with all your post, so I give you +1 And as I said in my post of cost changes, I had some ideas too:

{quoted}

  • Maybe Kassadin should be 2 tier and he could have additional spell damage (his Q).
  • Mordekaiser should be reworked and have his E ability as his ult throwing out enemies a little further or into him (cost 2 or 3 maybe). He also can have his LoL passive or is W as ultimates. I really dislike his Q on this gamemode.
  • For Poppy, her ult gains AoE.
  • Fiora could be reworked into an anti-CC unit, where passively she can use her W everytime someone CC her to parry it and gaining attack speed when she parrys. So there is no mana needed, his HP may be buffed too.
  • This is a secondary one, but maybe make a basic lifesteal item, so more items can be build from it.
  • Glaciar should be nerfed. Not just % passive on-hit. I think 2 seconds of CC for EVERY ATTACK it's too much and it cause units to perma-cc a lot of the time. It would be fine but still OP 1 second but can be changed to a 3 / 6 buff. Additionaly, make QSS an item.
  • Assassin damage crits to 125% / 325% and they get a little % of change of criting (10/30 for example).
  • Buff the 6 sorcerers damage synergy.
  • Add mana burn on spells for demons synergy and maybe nerf some autoattack chance to burn mana.

I can put even more. Tell me what do you think and what would be your own balance changes.

Titanium707/4/2019, 2:32:22 PM1 votes

I respect your opinion but I can hardly agree with some of your decisions.

  • T4: Do you realize you want 6 out of 9 T4s nerfed? You should respect the Tier. Neither Kindred nor Akali are much weaker than the ones you mentioned and Leona might be bad but Guardian is crazy!

  • Ahri Shyvana Katarina Lissandra In no way shape or form these girls need buffs! They're perfectly fine for what they do OR enable.

  • Fiora Shen are also quite good if you use/position them correctly. Don't think they need buffs but that's debateable.

  • Nidalee I really not sure about her. Yes, she's strong. But the Wild comp she's in has a hard time early on to win anything so having one great unit isnt to bad.

Considering Items: We can agree those need work done. Desperately! Random chances need to become X-Hits. Numbers need changes. I personally dont think any of the Items you mentioned is actually bad, most of them are simply niche items. Ranger/Blademaster is great with Statics, Ludens is great on fast Casters such as Ahri, Akali, Gunblade works on Asassins.