When you make a game based on RNG ONLY

Ryuji Torahiko·Jul 31, 2019·2 votes·1,174 views

Well, first i'm sorry about my english. I'm french, and the French forum disappeared for a shitty reason, on discord (And i bet that almost nobody goes there), SO :

I have try a bit TFT, and i really like the concept, but i just don't understand why add so much RNG on this game ?

I can understand a little amount of RNG, every game have RNG (IA pattern, Cards, Loot, Catch and more ...), but why play a game when everyone play the top tiers comp and than, only people who get the good champion or the good item will dominate ? That non sense ...

It's like i have, every game, 3/8 to be in top 3 and gain elo, and i don't even get Exp in League of Legends so if i get top 4 after 20/30 minutes of game i really waste my time.

So, i hope in future you will change that. For me, you should focus on differents things :

Add experience for playing in normal/ranked, because we play a long time and in fact, we got nothing for that (I understand you don't make this game for that, but for me it's just a different mode like Aram, Urf etc ... we play this game IN League of Legends and this game is also based on champion of League Of Legends)
Remove the most RNG you can by adding some rules like "For the first three round, you get 2 golds Round 1, A random item Round 2, Round 3 random item or gold" I really have a game with the guys versus me got two guisoo + vayne and lucian rank 2. In the second Round after my first match !
Maybe add a new system for buy champ, like choice to have 5 randoms champs for free, 1 champs you already have for 1 golds but it's random, or 1 champs you already have but you choice the cards for 3 golds. That remove the part of RNG and people don't will waste 60 g for make a rank 2/3 if they are not lucky.

Sorry again for my english. Kiss from France.

26 Comments

UndustasJul 31, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-31T21:50:52.898+0000)

Well, first i'm sorry about my english. I'm french, and the French forum disappeared for a shitty reason, on discord (And i bet that almost nobody goes there), SO :

I have try a bit TFT, and i really like the concept, but i just don't understand why add so much RNG on this game ?

I can understand a little amount of RNG, every game have RNG (IA pattern, Cards, Loot, Catch and more ...), but why play a game when everyone play the top tiers comp and than, only people who get the good champion or the good item will dominate ? That non sense ...

It's like i have, every game, 3/8 to be in top 3 and gain elo, and i don't even get Exp in League of Legends so if i get top 4 after 20/30 minutes of game i really waste my time.

So, i hope in future you will change that. For me, you should focus on differents things :

Add experience for playing in normal/ranked, because we play a long time and in fact, we got nothing for that (I understand you don't make this game for that, but for me it's just a different mode like Aram, Urf etc ... we play this game IN League of Legends and this game is also based on champion of League Of Legends)

Remove the most RNG you can by adding some rules like "For the first three round, you get 2 golds Round 1, A random item Round 2, Round 3 random item or gold" I really have a game with the guys versus me got two guisoo + vayne and lucian rank 2. In the second Round after my first match !

Maybe add a new system for buy champ, like choice to have 5 randoms champs for free, 1 champs you already have for 1 golds but it's random, or 1 champs you already have but you choice the cards for 3 golds. That remove the part of RNG and people don't will waste 60 g for make a rank 2/3 if they are not lucky.

Sorry again for my english. Kiss from France.

This game is about skill and far less rng.

New people or people who arent very good typically see the opposite of this and think its all rng.

Ryuji TorahikoJul 31, 20191 votes

I don't think so, because when you know what comp is the most broken (demon/yordle or Noble tactics for example) you will try to build around that, or you try a other comp but the problem is the same, if you don't have the item you needed, if you don't even have the champion in your list for make him rank 2/3, i don't see where the skill is supposed to be.

Honestly, between League of Legends and TFT, the difference is huge between skills and RNG.

You can have a really bad champ select, you can have a flamer, you can get team mate who do a bad game but ... in low elo (Between Iron and Master) if you are good you can always carry.

In TFT you can't carry like this, you don't play the champion, the IA will just fight for you. You can get very close match, you can have a very bad focus sometimes and obviously, rank and items always count.

UndustasJul 31, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-31T22:45:33.254+0000)

I don't think so, because when you know what comp is the most broken (demon/yordle or Noble tactics for example) you will try to build around that, or you try a other comp but the problem is the same, if you don't have the item you needed, if you don't even have the champion in your list for make him rank 2/3, i don't see where the skill is supposed to be.

Honestly, between League of Legends and TFT, the difference is huge between skills and RNG.

You can have a really bad champ select, you can have a flamer, you can get team mate who do a bad game but ... in low elo (Between Iron and Master) if you are good you can always carry.

In TFT you can't carry like this, you don't play the champion, the IA will just fight for you. You can get very close match, you can have a very bad focus sometimes and obviously, rank and items always count.

You can always hit top 4 no matter the rng. You will understand that when you learn the game better.

Ryuji TorahikoJul 31, 20191 votes

Please, explain to me. You can't just say "This game is not based on RNG" without explain your point of view.

I give you my arguments, now your turn.

And please, don't be patronize with me. You don't know me, maybe i understand more the game than you, maybe not, you can't judge this. We have two differents points of views. I'm waiting for your cogent argument.

UndustasAug 1, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-31T23:33:06.086+0000)

Please, explain to me. You can't just say "This game is not based on RNG" without explain your point of view.

I give you my arguments, now your turn.

And please, don't be patronize with me. You don't know me, maybe i understand more the game than you, maybe not, you can't judge this. We have two differents points of views. I'm waiting for your cogent argument.

If this game was only RNG how am i gold3? How has Scarra gotten 2 accounts to master rank? How are people climbing ranked? Are we all just that lucky??

The game gives you decisions, you can't go into a game trying to force a comp and expect to win. Even with the worst RNG you can top 4 pretty easily.

People areent stuck in iron and bronze because it's RNG, it's because they are making poor choices in the game that are adding up to losing.

This game isn't a slot machine where it's all out of your hands in terms of control

Ryuji TorahikoAug 1, 20191 votes

You don't really explain ...

Plus, scarra stream TFT and play A LOT, and in fact, i checked his twitter, look at this : https://twitter.com/scarra/status/1153180043968839680

58 games play in TFT, 36% WIN RATE. Amazing.

36% win rate, what kind of game TFT is when you get elo when your winrate is under 50% ...

So, you can't win without luck, definitively not. And you get elo with 35 / 40 % win rate. You are happy because you are gold ? In fact you don't even deserve it...

UndustasAug 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-01T20:10:50.408+0000)

You don't really explain ...

Plus, scarra stream TFT and play A LOT, and in fact, i checked his twitter, look at this : https://twitter.com/scarra/status/1153180043968839680

58 games play in TFT, 36% WIN RATE. Amazing.

36% win rate, what kind of game TFT is when you get elo when your winrate is under 50% ...

So, you can't win without luck, definitively not. And you get elo with 35 / 40 % win rate. You are happy because you are gold ? In fact you don't even deserve it...

An amamzing win rate in league was 50%..whats your point?

I guess games 0 skill, u stay iron i keep climbing.

Ryuji TorahikoAug 1, 20191 votes

Look, you just can talk about elo and nothing else it's a bit sad x)

This game is based on rng, so you don't will climb, you will just spam TFT for days for get elo.

But the point is, the day when this game is not based on RNG anymore, you will drop at your real level.

And in fact, i don't think most people really care about your elo in TFT. Maybe you want to tryhard this game because you know you can't do better in LoL ranked ?

UndustasAug 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-01T22:54:36.243+0000)

Look, you just can talk about elo and nothing else it's a bit sad x)

This game is based on rng, so you don't will climb, you will just spam TFT for days for get elo.

But the point is, the day when this game is not based on RNG anymore, you will drop at your real level.

And in fact, i don't think most people really care about your elo in TFT. Maybe you want to tryhard this game because you know you can't do better in LoL ranked ?

Not sure, when i quit Ranked in League i was plat 4 back when we had runes then i joined the Navy and havent played in years and didnt want to come back.

You're bad at tft because you fail to open up your eyes and learn the game, thats on you. If it was all rng it would be like slots and not like poker.

The game has rng elements but you still have to make the choices, you can literally top 4 every game no matter the rng, good players will do that, unlike you. PLay all dya?

As for needing to play all day, i have under 50 games played i am currently on an 8 game win streak getting top 4...Clearly all luck!

Stay bad at the game and blame rng for your losses when in reality they are your losses.

Unker139Aug 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-01T20:10:50.408+0000)

You don't really explain ...

Plus, scarra stream TFT and play A LOT, and in fact, i checked his twitter, look at this : https://twitter.com/scarra/status/1153180043968839680

58 games play in TFT, 36% WIN RATE. Amazing.

36% win rate, what kind of game TFT is when you get elo when your winrate is under 50% ...

So, you can't win without luck, definitively not. And you get elo with 35 / 40 % win rate. You are happy because you are gold ? In fact you don't even deserve it...

That win rate is based on getting 1st on a game with 8 people. If the game were truly rng only as the op thinks, it would be impossible to maintain a win rate higher than 12.5%. A 36% win rate a is almost 3x that of a rng only game.

Ryuji TorahikoAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That win rate is based on getting 1st on a game with 8 people. If the game were truly rng only as the op thinks, it would be impossible to maintain a win rate higher than 12.5%. A 36% win rate a is almost 3x that of a rng only game.

Are you sure about that ? You win when you are in top 3, you have the "Victory" and you gain elo.

If you have proof of this, i admit i was wrong and that my argument was not good.

So, if you have 36% win rate it's normal because you have 3/8 chances to win.

SubdueAug 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-01T22:56:18.651+0000)

Are you sure about that ? You win when you are in top 3, you have the "Victory" and you gain elo.

If you have proof of this, i admit i was wrong and that my argument was not good.

So, if you have 36% win rate it's normal because you have 3/8 chances to win.

The third party website that is referred to by the link only counts 1st place for the win percentage, even though you usually gain LP as long as you're in 4th place or higher.

If it were based on getting top 3, then you need only look at your own winrate to see that it's not random. Your own winrate is 8%, which would mean you are winning 1/4 of the expected number of games.

https://lolchess.gg/profile/euw/ryujitorahiko

Unker139Aug 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuji Torahiko,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=6KyIBI8h,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-01T22:56:18.651+0000)

Are you sure about that ? You win when you are in top 3, you have the "Victory" and you gain elo.

If you have proof of this, i admit i was wrong and that my argument was not good.

So, if you have 36% win rate it's normal because you have 3/8 chances to win.

I'm sure. When they posted about what stats were available and they said that only 1st counts as a win. Plus I show zero wins though I've had a few 2nd and 3rd places. You gain LP but it doesn't count as a win.

SukishooAug 2, 20191 votes

You do know that anything under FIRST PLACE is considered a loss in TFT right? That's why the winrates are so low on people. Top TFT player, rank 1 challenger, has only 69 wins with many many maaaannnny more losses. So those 69 wins, were first place only, everything else is 2nd or lower.

And it's not at all luck or people wouldn't climb at all. Yes, there's some luck but I've had come backs in the game hard. Like I had a disconnect that made me miss the first 5 rounds yesterday and was still able to hit third place and gain points. So it's not just luck, you have to have the skill to understand the style of game it is.

I just hit plat today https://imgur.com/Hz9nhWQ and it was a hard climb. So it's well deserved and it is far from being all RNG/LUCK or easy.

Ryuji TorahikoAug 2, 20191 votes

We have different point of view, i don't think this game is based on skill but more based on RNG, just look at this game, random champions, random items, random fight (in fact you can have really bad fight even if your comp is better because IA). For me, in this game the elo mean nothing, and i hope things will change.

But yes, i'm wrong with the win rate, i know it now, it's my bad.

hrooza dota Aug 1, 20191 votes

adepting is the skill you need, it will be rng only if you counted on rng alone but if you can adept to whatever the rng give you,knowing what to do with your champions on shop what to do with the items you get, knowing if losing or winning is better or even positioning your self, all of those can get you top 4 most games,.

i started iron and barely play the game [like my avarage is 1~2 games a day] and yet i hit plat with almost perfect top 4 because of some Dcs and some troll [like the very first game where i tried to max tf lel] i now get hit with 5th rank tho as my opponents are getting better in plat, still climbing

ToadwartAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You can always hit top 4 no matter the rng. You will understand that when you learn the game better.

Not remotely true.

You can watch the best players in the game, either streaming, YouTube or in tournaments and they still place 8th.

Take the top 4 US players on the ladder and the top 4 EU players on the ladder, place them in one game.....are you trying to tell me no one is coming in 8th?

Someone has to be 8th, even when its the top players in the world.

SubdueAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Not remotely true.

You can watch the best players in the game, either streaming, YouTube or in tournaments and they still place 8th.

Take the top 4 US players on the ladder and the top 4 EU players on the ladder, place them in one game.....are you trying to tell me no one is coming in 8th?

Someone has to be 8th, even when its the top players in the world.

Way to intentionally misinterpret his comment.

The point is, it is possible to outplay your opponents and reach 3rd or 4th place even with a poor draw. Even an objectively weaker composition can beat a stronger composition if 3 or 4 players are competing for the same stronger composition and you can get ahead of them in champion levels, or if the composition specifically counters the front-runners.

ToadwartAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Way to intentionally misinterpret his comment.

The point is, it is possible to outplay your opponents and reach 3rd or 4th place even with a poor draw.

Its possible to win the lottery as well, but it takes good RNG....

Oh, wait...

ToadwartAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I didnt misinterpret his comment. He stated that it is always possible to come in 4th place or above and that is utter rubbish.

UndustasAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Its possible to win the lottery as well, but it takes good RNG....

Oh, wait...

Oh? Show me a person whos good at the lottery and wins the powerball 5+ times a year? Go ahead i'll wait...

SubdueAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Its possible to win the lottery as well, but it takes good RNG....

Oh, wait...

You intentionally misinterpreted my post this time, and you even had to cut off part of the post you are quoting to do it!

Devilreaper XIIIAug 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This game is about skill and far less rng.

New people or people who arent very good typically see the opposite of this and think its all rng.

lol my pinky got more skill than the entire mode, boxing in a karthus with hextec and two ludens is not skills, even if you manage to add dragon claw on your champions, karthus does 2000 damage, whoopy 1 vs 5 in 5 seconds because your assassins can never reach karthus, and no champion survives 2000 damage.

as the mode stands items give an edge over certain champs, because: A said championn is overtuned B items need tweaking

look at kennen, players randomly add kennen to a non synergy team, because he was buffed to godlike, killing practically entire teams with just 1 ability, or aatrox oneshotting half the team with 1 ability, or shyvana with hextech and a shiv being a god, or katarina with hextech killing half your team, yeah such skill, adding 1 champion that destroys half or entire teams with 1 ability, and than you need to be lucky to get items to counter it, and you need to be lucky to get champions to level up, and than you need to hope players that don't pick first from the carousel pick the items/champions you need........ O____O

all you can do is hope pray you get lucky ingame to build what you want/need, even if you adjust there is always a risk it doesn't work out.

UndustasAug 1, 20191 votes

Stay iron i will keep climbing.

ToadwartAug 1, 20193 votes

{quoted}

This game is about skill and far less rng.

New people or people who arent very good typically see the opposite of this and think its all rng.

Its mostly all RNG with some areas where skill can be used. You cant even be taken seriously to say it isnt.

UndustasAug 1, 20191 votes

Its rng elemens sure, but the decisions you make dictate your outcome, you could be blessed with the best rng and still place last.