Snowballs in ARAM. It's time to admit it's a failure and remove them.

InivtesPreeze·Sep 3, 2015·9 votes·1,080 views

The title says it all. Whoever thought a true damage Lee Q every few seconds was a good idea is bad at their job.

Remove it.

14 Comments

lightdragoon88Sep 4, 20155 votes

I rather have the old poke comp back then having to deal with Alistar Galio Amumu Hecarim snowballing in and killing everything that is not a tank in...EVERY....SINGLE....GAME!!!!!

Snowball right now gives tanks WAY to much advantage over poke and said poke champs get nothing.

If they want to keep snowball for tanks and engagers, then give a spell for mages and ADC. Like...a summoner spell that sends out a pulse that pushes all enemies back a set distance. (AKA: Janna ult without the heal)

KinjishiSep 5, 20151 votes

That doesn't happen every single game. There are still a lot of games with poke and where poke wins. Tanks need to build up and take longer to itemize (though it can depend on what you are building).

lightdragoon88Sep 5, 20152 votes

And it takes a long time for poke to build all their items.

I Am AbøminationSep 3, 20154 votes

I would be happy with them being removed completely as there are only a few champions that really need them.

I feel like most people who complain about poke comps are just bad at ARAM.

If they don't remove them, they at the very least need to be nerfed more.

-Take away all damage -Don't grant vision on stealthed champs -Add a limit on the range of the dash portion of the spell, I'd suggest similar range to a Lee Sin Q. -Increase CD timer to something like 120 seconds (I'd be fine with an even longer CD) -Decrease mark range slightly

Currently people take mark/dash on almost any champ because it is so useful. Take away some of its utility and roles like adc/mage will have less reason to take it over other spells like heal/exhaust/etc. This way you're still keeping the core usefulness of being able to give tanks with no gapcloser a way to initiate, though they'll have to be a little more careful with how they use it, and it's an incentive for other classes to take another spell which would probably be more suited to their class, rather than everyone just taking snowball all the time because it's OP as fk.

ZielmannSep 3, 20154 votes

I've actually found that with the last round of nerfs, it's in an okay place. Granted, I think at this point I'd still rather it be removed, but I don't actually believe that it's in the so-OP-everybody-must-take-it position that it was on release. After those changes, I've found that I feel I can contribute more with non-engage champions with other spells. Exhaust is actually my go-to, as you can use it against the people flying at you from their snowballs.

It's not at the point where I've gotten tired of playing ARAM now, which I did after just a couple days when it was first released. But I'd still be happy to see it go. There are other ways to help out the champs who need it, perhaps without helping to make the melee engage champs who were already strong just that much stronger.

Basically, the winrates of a few select melee champs have gone up, but that on ones who were already strong for ARAM (Galio, Amumu, Leona, Sion, etc.). Sadly, it did nothing to shake up the bottom end of the champion pool to actually help champions that were previously struggling.

bad manner kidSep 3, 20153 votes

It gives a lot of teams the chance to engage against the traditional roflstomp poke win teams. However, it lets a lot of annoying champs drop hard aoe CC in your face when you least expect it... IE: Nami bubble point blank.

I agree the CD is a bit low though, should be 60-90sec.

Dessim8Sep 3, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=All Chat Referee,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=Mm5FnAqB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-03T16:58:25.125+0000)

traditional roflstomp poke win teams.

Not very high ELO? Maybe it's just me, but I find my poke teams tend to get beaten more often than not the longer the game gets. Nid/Varus/Sivir/Urgot/Cait will lose to Sion, Galio, Rammus, Naut, Karthus if you give them time to grow the MR/Armor. The reason these seem statistically insane from your perspective is because "Lawl, not srs, 5 minute game!"

ZielmannSep 3, 20152 votes

Tanks have always won ARAM late-game. Unfortunately many people with the tank-heavy teams just accept that they have a 'worse' comp and roll over and lose before they get to turn it around.

And the introduction of snowball, as well as some of the recent defensive item changes, has only accelerated the power spike that these champions get.

GrinwoodSep 3, 20155 votes

I'm glad someone gets it. I would guess these people just don't play ARAM, but say they do because at one point they played a game. Some guy tried to tell me that if you get a Varus or Jayce on your team, it is an instant win. It is just not the case.

Also, there are times in ARAM where you will lose a match based solely on the champ select, but this is not just because of poke champs.

I for one am anti-snowball. It has no place on the map. If it does need to stay, then make it a lee sin Q with zero damage, and longer cooldown than it has now, but realistically there is a better option for reworking or fixing the real problem that the snowball tries to address.

KinjishiSep 4, 20151 votes

Don't think it's used as much as it was when it first came out. There's not a problem with keeping it. Seems quite a few people with ARAM accounts want it gone (it encroaches on their win/loss - there may or may not be people like that in this thread). Flash/Heal are still more popular. There are some champs, like Amumu (with W and Sunfire), that really benefit from this - as Mark/Dash has a longer distance than his Q. It definitely allows some champs to be more viable and not just leave it to be a constant poke fest all the time (Veigar, Kog, Marksmen in general, etc.).

ZielmannSep 4, 20154 votes

I'm anti-snowball, and play ARAM on this account which I've had since closed beta. I've got about 90 champions on it (there are a number I just have no interest in playing, ARAM or not).

The problem with snowball, is that it has mainly benefitted those who don't even need it. Ali, Amumu, Galio, Leona, and Sion (post rework) were already strong enough in ARAM before. They all have reliable engage tools built into their kits (maybe not quite so much Galio but positioning for his ult in ARAM really isn't that difficult to begin with). Snowballs only serve to make these champions that much more oppressive.

The goal of the snowball was to give champions without reliable engage a tool to get into the fight. Very few of these champions have actually benefitted from snowball as such. If you look at the trends available on lolking, the list of lowest win-rate champions hasn't really changed much at all with the addition of snowball. Except for Lee Sin, who dropped drastically once every other melee tank/fighter in the game has his signature spell available to them. If snowballs had actually achieved their goal, these bottom champs should have seen more of a shuffle.

Kiting or disengage are two of the best ways to deal with high-engage champs/teams. Snowballs basically take away any hope of kiting or disengaging these champions.

InivtesPreezeSep 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm anti-snowball, and play ARAM on this account which I've had since closed beta. I've got about 90 champions on it (there are a number I just have no interest in playing, ARAM or not).

The problem with snowball, is that it has mainly benefitted those who don't even need it. Ali, Amumu, Galio, Leona, and Sion (post rework) were already strong enough in ARAM before. They all have reliable engage tools built into their kits (maybe not quite so much Galio but positioning for his ult in ARAM really isn't that difficult to begin with). Snowballs only serve to make these champions that much more oppressive.

The goal of the snowball was to give champions without reliable engage a tool to get into the fight. Very few of these champions have actually benefitted from snowball as such. If you look at the trends available on lolking, the list of lowest win-rate champions hasn't really changed much at all with the addition of snowball. Except for Lee Sin, who dropped drastically once every other melee tank/fighter in the game has his signature spell available to them. If snowballs had actually achieved their goal, these bottom champs should have seen more of a shuffle.

Kiting or disengage are two of the best ways to deal with high-engage champs/teams. Snowballs basically take away any hope of kiting or disengaging these champions.

This says it all.

It's pathetic that the cretinous masses don't get it, though. (along with the "devs" that push this moronic idea through)

0000 INFINITYSep 4, 20151 votes

Nooooooooooooo

They should just return that insane cast distance and damage, its funny when you kill another low hp player with it :D

Ranger AzerethSep 5, 20151 votes

Honestly I have no qualms about snowball, and I honestly just take barrier and flash with an occasional clarity. Speaking for myself when most champs snowball to me I can either avoid it easily or play it off against their favor. I feel like arams are in a more balanced spot since their introduction but that's just me.