I can see how if something like full ap zed or karthus adc would be frowned apon, but why is everyone so harsh against actually viable lanes? Like kha'zix top or maybe ap ezreal mid… everyone either leaves queue thinking its a instant loss or kicks me, and when i actually get in game i do pretty well, so if anyone who frowns apon this sort of thing can you tell me a reasonable reason why?
TehNACHO3 votesWhen it comes to lanes, my personal stance is this: -Top Laners need the ability to defend themselves -Mid Laners need the ability to instantly be a threat to their opponent -Supports need some sort of non-gold scaling usefulness -APC or ADC I don't care, just so long as you devote yourself entirely towards it
Whereas so long as you can get past your first clear with Jungle, I really don't care who you jungle with.
See, Top Laners that can't defend themselves tend to fail because the moment they screw up in a lane so isolated and don't have the ability to defend themselves thereafter, they're screwed. Mid Laners tend to almost always want some way to threaten the opponent, be it range or a gap closer, because of how dominant abilities and cool down abusing is in Mid Lane. Supports obviously need to be able to handle not having gold, and carries are carries regardless if they do Magic Damage or Physical Damage, just don't wuss out without building full offense.
I always thought this was a fair assessment for standards I should keep. I'm perfectly fine with people playing Master Yi mid because Master Yi's Alpha Strike is perfect for abusing cool downs (Not to mention dodging skill shots), for example, but I would heavily criticize against Garen mid against any non-melee matchup. I consider myself relatively lax about what champions should go where, what's important to me however is that it has to make sense.
Does that sound fair or am I just a stick in the mud?
disregardable1 votesTop Laners need the ability to defend themselves
maybe even 
-Mid Laners need the ability to instantly be a threat to their opponent
also any marksman you bring midlane (which is very effective)
Supports need some sort of non-gold scaling usefulness
...all of them...
APC/ADCso long as you devote yourself entirely towards it
literally the only effective way of building in low elo...
Whereas so long as you can get past your first clear with Jungle
Even marksman can do that...
TehNACHO1 votesYou know this is a thread about what off meta picks, right? And that my post is about what off meta picks probably can or can't work?
Fiora her life steal and parry (in certain match ups), Teemo his range (in certain match ups), blind (in certain match ups), and shrooms, Gnar his range (in certain match ups), jump, and sustain granted from form changing. These are all tools they can use to defend themselves just fine.
Twisted Fate and Malzahar are both ranged combatants through and through, and Galio's abilities are ranged. Count ranged ADCs as well. (I believe I even went out of my way to mention that range is a tool to instantly be a threat in my post)
All of the ones that are currently accepted in the meta. I, and the op, are talking about off meta picks. Think 
support. If the player hypothetically doesn't get the gold to invest enough into tankiness and bot lane not being particularly weak to silences, an off meta wannabe trying Garen support is going to be...less than useful. A more extreme example is Master Yi or Katarina support, and they aren't able to snowball.
Oh ho, many a times a Nidalee "Carry" start building bruiser, then complaining that they don't do enough damage come late game.
Sure, so I tend not to care about Jungle.
Dude, why are you even trying to bring these points up against me, these are just my personal guidelines I have to what should or shouldn't work.
disregardable1 votesThe thing about the off-meta qualification is that it's really hard for me to think of something off-meta. Other than heal-based support champions, I think most champions can effectively go into any lane, especially with the weaker jungle.
Also, you're literally just saying their kits have those things in every case.
TehNACHO1 votesI think I've made my point with Katarina or Master Yi Support.
Or Garen mid in a ranged matchup.
Also, I'm literally just saying, and I quote:
what's important to me however is that it has to make sense.
Jesus dude, stop attacking people over opinions, that's just lame.
disregardable1 votesDo you take every disagreement as a personal attack? :P
And you're very wrong about kat/yi support. I have seen it done many a time (Bronze V is a joy), and they still snowball pretty hard. Their ADC on the other hand, that's a different story.
TehNACHO2 votesI said if they aren't able to snowball.
This is exactly what I mean, at this point you're just picking on me without even reading my posts well, please stop.
disregardable1 votesBut the point is that they do still snowball.
And really, the boards are a place for discussion. O.o I'm just talking to you. If you don't want someone to respond to your post, don't post anything...
Terff1 votesSupport isn't supposed to snowball, their carry is, if you want to snowball pick mid/top
disregardable1 votesNot necessarily. The whole point of picking Annie support, for example, is that she turns from a decent support into a functional late game team member.
Terff2 votesDoes katarina though, besides raw damage, help your carry out? Annie has an aoe stun for cc. Kat only has death for cc.
Stephenizgod2 votesWell actually Fiora does not play defensively... usually, her goal is to wreck lane then roam/clean-up. If you are being forced to play defensive as Fiora, you are not doing good... usually.
Also Garen can go mid, DFG Garen anyone? His natural tankiness plus is bonus to MR and Armor means he can build hexdrinker and gain a ton of defense, more so then normal melee mids. Obviously an opponent with a ton of CC is going to destroy him, but it is very viable if done correctly. Also Garen can support very well against Supports like Leona, Braum, Thresh, and Blitzcrank. About to take damage or CC? Spin to Win then flex your muscles and reduce CC and damage, plus his Q removes slows and is a silence. Almost dead? Take a step back and dont take damage for like 20 sec, ok all healed! It needs to be done correctly though.
To be honest your guidelines are not as open-minded as you think. Malzahar can not defend himself top as he is slow, has high mana costs and cool downs, has no hard CC except for his Ult which also suppresses him, and pushes lane so is susceptible to ganks. That doesn't mean i do not destroy top 8 out of 10 games with him. Normally people do not like it when i Malz top, the Jungler will even refuse to gank top (not sure where the logic in that is, doesn't that mean you are the one losing it for us?) but if you can control your E and keep your jungle warded, there are not much Tops that can handle his awesome 1v1 potential. That is just one example out of many i feel are outside your guidelines, yet do just fine.
TehNACHO2 votesYou misunderstood. Having a means to defend oneself=/=playing defensively. In the case of Fiora, she heals off attacking, that's a defensive mechanic implemented in playing offensively.
Garen can mid against most other melee mids with incredible ease, but as you mention, he has trouble against those with heavy CC. I'd also add that he has trouble against ranged champions in general because his gap closer is less than optimal.
Garen also can lane as a support if played correctly, but my point was he's going to fall off harder than he already does if he (for example) doesn't have the gold to invest in the usual tankiness he needs come mid to late game.
And Malzahar can defend himself in a 1v1 scenario against most top laners, as his range supersedes that of most top laners' engage and thus he's never actually in danger. If you look at what I wrote about Teemo and Gnar, you'll notice that I mention their range is a defensive tool as well.
Honestly, I think you're just misinterpreting what I'm saying at this point, at least about top lane and support. We seem to agree to some extent on mid lane (If Garen is going to have trouble actually getting on top of his enemies, be it enemy CC or range, he's probably going to get wrecked), and in fact I do approve of Malzahar top lane so long as you are careful about the enemy laner's (and jungler's) possible engage potential, so it's more than evident to me it's simply a miscommunication at this point.
Stephenizgod2 votesNo im not misinterpreting what you are saying, im saying your understanding of "defensive" is too broad. Every champions ability can be considered defensive or offensive if you break it down like that. The bottom line is Malzahar does well not because he can defend himself, which he cant, but because he can control the lane well and can all in 100-0 an opponent in the right situations, both of which indicate an aggressive playstyle.
TehNACHO2 votesAnd what does it matter that my definition is broad like that?
See, this is why I consider my standards relatively lax about what should or shouldn't be. It's not that my standards are low, it's that my interpretation is loose enough for many champions to pass my 'does it meet these standards' assessment I make. Granted, many are far more situational than most, so while you may argue that my interpretation allows an extremely large amount of champion to meet any of these requirements, a large sum of them would only meet them under very certain situations.
Like, I would never recommend Master Yi mid if the enemy mid Laner have too strong a combination of disengage power and CC lockdown. Champions like Lissandra who can keep Master Yi at bay, especially post 6, negates a lot of Master Yi's damage potential and makes him unviable for mid lane, as Master Yi can no longer "instantly be a threat to the opponent". Against any other matchup without nearly as much disengage, Master Yi can easily pass my assessment of 'do you have the potential to instantly be a threat to your opponent?', and you can say my understanding is very broad in that sense, but in situations where it very clearly no longer applies, Master Yi very clearly no longer stands up to midlane.
The point I'm trying to get away with is that you're right, my understanding of whatever meets my requirements are rather broad in a general sense. If we take the context away from the situation (for example, we're picking for Blind Pick), then many, many champions would pass my assessment too easily. If we reapply context (for example, we're picking for Draft Pick), and we see the enemy with something that completely negates a certain champion's strengths in certain areas (Disengage mid for Master Yi), only then do I really start to assess whether a non-meta pick should or shouldn't work.
Stephenizgod2 votesWell, thank you for explaining actually, ye it was my misunderstanding my bad :) At first i thought you were too literal and then i thought you were too loose with the meaning, but i get what you are saying now. We actually have a very similar way of assessing if a champion will work i think, for top lane i look at how well they can either kill their opponent and roam or how well they can apply pressure around the map/in teamfights. For mid i look at their ability to kill their specific opponent. For ADC and Supp i look at how well they compliment each other and how much CC and Damage they bring to teamfights. For Jungle, as long as they gank or farm well idc.
Tsukuy0m12 votesits team builder for a reason. ud rather be with people who agree with u than people who dont want to be with u.
if they kick or leave u. then thats fine. its better off that way. it works out for u and for them.
ThatAutofillSupp1 votesmm… i suppose but, I'm just wondering why people just instantly say "no" instead of actually thinking how a off meta lane would go to be beneficial
Pheonixwish1 votesAlthough team builder has much more leeway than something like blind pick in terms of setup, people treat it more as a dispute-settler than a sandbox. The community doesn't change in team builder, so you're going to have to find a group that'll accept you.
Renaille1 votesBecause meta sheep
Deep Terror Nami1 votesMeh, fuck em. I played mid Nami in TB and nobody said a thing surprisingly (not even before I won lane vs. Zed and foiled nearly every camping Shaco gank). If they don't like what you picked, who cares what they think as long as you aren't trolling and are making an honest attempt to win.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesBecause:
support- Ooh I'm viable cz walls~. Yea, so is Braum.
/
top- When people are scared enough of being attacked at melee range.
jungle- Cz OP clear time, but noob ganks. Kind of like a grandpa version of Warwick.
mid- Cz you actually think you can spread the freelo in any lane you want, jerk.
Terff1 votes
Amen
I saw someone say they played kat supp...
Hyrum Graff1 votesHi.
Worgslarg1 votesI would assume that people want to play a meta game, and get the role that they wanted. I have seen a lot of people try off meta comps in TB, and quite surprisingly, the team builder off meta games seem to have far more losses than an off meta pick in a blind pick game.
Chaotic Reks1 votesor crit carry 
...
IMightBeYourDad1 votesI played against a panth supp in team builder yesterday haha and me and my friend run Varus+Voli(Fr33lo)